PC Starting out is tough but it's fine.

[Scyris]

Play everything from a default or higher difficulty.
Its not that its a struggle, its just too damn tedious for a variety of wrong ways, which is really robbing the fun factor for me. I survive entirely fine, I'm just not enjoying myself while doing it.

You have to constantly eat to keep your stam softcap at a reasonable level. (Which means spam snowberries since they only have 1% poison chance and can be found everywhere.) Eating food should be as a need, not a constantly, doing it all the time thing just so I don't get softcapped on action meter.

Food and drink crawl up in % too slow when you eat/drink,

Encumbrance needs to go away, literally, it has no place in a sandbox/Crafting game. If you want encumbrance then give me bags to find in the wild or crafting, not force me to spend points. ( near-forced Linear playstyle is never a good thing)

I spend more time tossing out empty cans and jars because they're causing the encumbrance debuff.

Zed take 3 headshots or more, and it feels like there is almost no difference between steel arrows and stone ones.

But it is cool you can pick arrows up off the ground and out of zed, so we have that going for us which is nice.

My biggest irk is zed spawning on top of me when I've already cleared a house or area, and the numerous "GOTCHA!" moments the devs put in (zed in the corner of small rooms so if you enter you get smacked) (Okay everything is clear, then WHACK! A silent zed spawns near you, hits you and causes a bleed or something, and because reasons I can't craft a damn first aid bandage to counter act the hp loss.(Oh more forced point spending! ) Very very stupid.

The thing I do to avoid all this is make noise so they wake up and I kite them outside to clear them. Then more spawn later when im searching the house, Really? Why?

Hiding zed in the walls and ceilings is probably the dumbest thing and makes no sense other than "Gotcha" moments. Especially when they're literally just Hidden In-wall that only contain the zombie with no alternate route to something like a stash room.

Farming is atrocious, please revert it back to just picking up crops with the action button. Again, that is just unnecessary tedious for the sake of it. If people want massive farms, let them, balance around that, instead of eating away at different play styles.

I've said this before and I shall reiterate it again.

it would be more fun to start the game in a lab or a prison and figure out how to survive long enough to break out into the zombie infested apocalypse.

Challenge me through Challenge, not by handicapping me.

Many mod authors also make this mistake of mistaking grind as challenge. Making something take a extra step or 2 to make is not making it more of a challenge its just adding more pointless grind to it.

As for the encumbrance I got a modlet that lowers the debuff from 0.026 (2.6% speed reduction per slot) to 0.007 (0.7% speed reduction per slot) You still notice it when you have like 18 slots encumbered, but its no where near as aggravating as the base debuff is. I found the whole idea of giving us a bigger inventory stupid if your going to lock it behind a perk, and make it annoying as hell to use any of those slots without it. Nevermind the fact you need 2 in pack mule to get the old inv size from a16.4. I'd rather it just be a flat 45 slot inv, and remove the encumbrance/packmule skills entirely.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

LMAO, I have only 1 play through where I couldn't find a cooking pot. No wastelands, searched all the broken corner houses in the burn biome, cleared 2 houses.... nothing lol
I feel your pain.

You can find cooking pots out in the open placed in semi-hidden areas like on top of cabinets and on counter tops, though most players don't see them.

 

[Scyris]

i looted 3 houses in day 1. no pot. first house at day 2, no pot. second house at day 2 i got 10 pots and 2 grills. rng god shows mercy.

Yeah rng plays a big factor in a17 with how much fun I have early game, if I don't find a sledge or iron pickaxe at least, I do not have a fun time. The sledge is my go-to for bashing skulls and looting poi's as it now has the highest block damage in the game for tools. Usually don't have much issues finding a cooking pot though. If you see Buzz's Bar Poi it always has I think 2 in the kitchen sitting there, as well as several of the house poi's have pots just sitting there. Many of the store Poi's from a16 did as well.

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You can find cooking pots out in the open placed in semi-hidden areas like on top of cabinets and on counter tops, though most players don't see them.

They often have them positioned in a way they are easy to miss if your not looking for them I notice. Me? I got eyes like a hawk hunting for one till I find my first one, I check everywhere they usually can be. You also no longer need a anvil to make a cooking pot, so if you find a working forge you can just make one easy.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

Yeah rng plays a big factor in a17 with how much fun I have early game, if I don't find a sledge or iron pickaxe at least, I do not have a fun time. The sledge is my go-to for bashing skulls and looting poi's as it now has the highest block damage in the game for tools. Usually don't have much issues finding a cooking pot though. If you see Buzz's Bar Poi it always has I think 2 in the kitchen sitting there, as well as several of the house poi's have pots just sitting there. Many of the store Poi's from a16 did as well.
- - - Updated - - -

They often have them positioned in a way they are easy to miss if your not looking for them I notice. Me? I got eyes like a hawk hunting for one till I find my first one, I check everywhere they usually can be. You also no longer need a anvil to make a cooking pot, so if you find a working forge you can just make one easy.

Yep they do that with some hidden bags and stashes too, I like that my personal perception plays a role in those situations.

 

[wildaxeman1]

Encumbrance needs to go away, literally, it has no place in a sandbox/Crafting game.

i hated it first, but i find it reasonable. you need to progress, not having everything at the beginning. just pick few essentials and leave the rest. put chest on the road and mark it on map, so you can return later. problem solved.

You have to constantly eat to keep your stam softcap at a reasonable level. (Which means spam snowberries since they only have 1% poison chance and can be found everywhere.) Eating food should be as a need, not a constantly, doing it all the time thing just so I don't get softcapped on action meter.

you answer is in your post. you eat as needed. if you spend energy, you need to feed.

My biggest irk is zed spawning on top of me when I've already cleared a house

you obviously did not clear the area yet.

Hiding zed in the walls and ceilings is probably the dumbest thing and makes no sense other than "Gotcha" moments. Especially when they're literally just Hidden In-wall that only contain the zombie with no alternate route to something like a stash room.

that is hilarious and entertaining part of game. people hid in closet or ceiling during zombie outbreak, died there and turned zombies. btw, if you pay attention, you learn quickly to spot them and lure out of closet before you pass them and get cornered.

Challenge me through Challenge, not by handicapping me.

absolutely agree. and surviving without experience and skills is challenge. smaller backpack or 3 headshots is not handicapping. it is challenge and you get better in time, if you spend your points wisely.

happy bloody x-mas

 

[FileMachete]

wildaxeman1, I could be wrong but my interpretation of OnlyMeiyas comment on needing to eat is related to Food being tied 1 for 1 to max Stamina. Not that activitys shouldn't burn food.

It doesn't make 'sense' to a lot of folks (basing this on numerous comments in various threads) that being 90% 'full' means you can only have 90% of your max stamina.

In real life I don't pack a bag of sandwhichs around w me in the gym and eat one after every set or two, just so I can have enough stamina to do a 15 rep set. Sure I may take a drink of water every couple sets, but I don't drink a liter when I do.

What would be more intuitive would be if stamina regen'd to 100% until 'food' fell to around 25%. Then start lowering max stamina. So when we 'need' to eat, it's more like having a big meal, instead of the constant 'snacking' we're having to do now.

At least to me that would be a much more 'natural' mechanic.

---

and in another post I offered the idea of two-toning the stamina bar, so maybe 'Food' is represented by yellow, and Stamina is Blue. The portion of the bar where they overlap is Green.

 

[sadpickle]

TOO MUCH GRIND?A lot of you people on these forums are playing the wrong game imo lol. I can't figure out what kind of game you people even want? Minecraft creative? No? You hate grind though? Or at least claim to hate it.

It should be obvious we prefer Minecraft Survival. A16 WAS Minecraft Survival with zombie boobs. People made fantastic structures and no one lost their ♥♥♥♥ing mind over stupid cooking pots.

TFP have two class of players; it's arguable which group is bigger but a large portion of the player base is playing this game because it has voxels and a building hierarchy. The other group is playing because they want gritty survival. Unfortunately for everyone, the early game is the only time gritty survival matters; once you're established the main reason to keep playing is to build. It's definitely not the amazing combat mechanics or endless variety of loot that keeps someone going past the 7th day. By making the early game needlessly frustrating, the first group (the builders) are being penalized with an early-game experience they never asked for. No alpha has been this ridiculously front-loaded with challenge.

I am in that first group. I'm here to build in a survival environment. I'm not here to survive in a quasi-building environment. I work 40 hours a week. I get two days off where I don't have to drive to work, drive to the store, drive to the dentist, drive to the mechanic, drive to the DMV, pay my taxes, pay my bills, etc. Two days and a couple hours after work the rest of the week. Right now the prospect of 7DTD is not "this sounds fun", it is "do I want to put ~7 hours into this game before I can build anything".

I would drop the sarcasm and agree a second mode is the easiest solution: one with level-gates, and one without. The rest of the early-game roadblocks, I can manage with some planning and luck. They also need to drop the cost of perks back to 1. If we're going to double-down on perks, I'd prefer to cost to be uniform and predictable.

RIP skills; we hardly knew you.

 

[LuckyStar]

It should be obvious we prefer Minecraft Survival. A16 WAS Minecraft Survival with zombie boobs. People made fantastic structures and no one lost their ♥♥♥♥ing mind over stupid cooking pots.
TFP have two class of players; it's arguable which group is bigger but a large portion of the player base is playing this game because it has voxels and a building hierarchy. The other group is playing because they want gritty survival. Unfortunately for everyone, the early game is the only time gritty survival matters; once you're established the main reason to keep playing is to build. It's definitely not the amazing combat mechanics or endless variety of loot that keeps someone going past the 7th day. By making the early game needlessly frustrating, the first group (the builders) are being penalized with an early-game experience they never asked for. No alpha has been this ridiculously front-loaded with challenge.

I am in that first group. I'm here to build in a survival environment. I'm not here to survive in a quasi-building environment. I work 40 hours a week. I get two days off where I don't have to drive to work, drive to the store, drive to the dentist, drive to the mechanic, drive to the DMV, pay my taxes, pay my bills, etc. Two days and a couple hours after work the rest of the week. Right now the prospect of 7DTD is not "this sounds fun", it is "do I want to put ~7 hours into this game before I can build anything".

I would drop the sarcasm and agree a second mode is the easiest solution: one with level-gates, and one without. The rest of the early-game roadblocks, I can manage with some planning and luck. They also need to drop the cost of perks back to 1. If we're going to double-down on perks, I'd prefer to cost to be uniform and predictable.

RIP skills; we hardly knew you.

Interesting post.

I agree with a lot of this.

Builder here as well.

I'm fine with it being in a survival setting but that's not why I keep playing.

I spend hundreds of hours making very large builds.

So do many others.

Yeah you make some very good points here.

 

[wildaxeman1]

wildaxeman1, I could be wrong but my interpretation of OnlyMeiyas comment on needing to eat is related to Food being tied 1 for 1 to max Stamina. Not that activitys shouldn't burn food.
It doesn't make 'sense' to a lot of folks (basing this on numerous comments in various threads) that being 90% 'full' means you can only have 90% of your max stamina.

In real life I don't pack a bag of sandwhichs around w me in the gym and eat one after every set or two, just so I can have enough stamina to do a 15 rep set. Sure I may take a drink of water every couple sets, but I don't drink a liter when I do.

What would be more intuitive would be if stamina regen'd to 100% until 'food' fell to around 25%. Then start lowering max stamina. So when we 'need' to eat, it's more like having a big meal, instead of the constant 'snacking' we're having to do now.

At least to me that would be a much more 'natural' mechanic.

---

and in another post I offered the idea of two-toning the stamina bar, so maybe 'Food' is represented by yellow, and Stamina is Blue. The portion of the bar where they overlap is Green.

one bar is enough. but i agree. that stamina should not lower as soon hunger starts kick in. 25% is surely too low, but in my opinion, 75% could be about right. but then again, now you can overeat. i guess 150% is max as MM posted way back. it could be changed to 125% as someone mentioned. still, we need to eat, if we do something

 

[OnlyMeiya]

i hated it first, but i find it reasonable. you need to progress, not having everything at the beginning. just pick few essentials and leave the rest. put chest on the road and mark it on map, so you can return later. problem solved.

you answer is in your post. you eat as needed. if you spend energy, you need to feed.

you obviously did not clear the area yet.

that is hilarious and entertaining part of game. people hid in closet or ceiling during zombie outbreak, died there and turned zombies. btw, if you pay attention, you learn quickly to spot them and lure out of closet before you pass them and get cornered.

happy bloody x-mas

I hated and still hate it, encumbrance locked behind a skill point is forced point spending, I can deal with it if I can find something or craft something later to deal with it.

My point was about max stam, not hunger, hunger meter isn't a problem for me.

Yes I did clear them, I watched as later while leaving they spawned on the floor, got up and attacked me.

absolutely agree. and surviving without experience and skills is challenge. smaller backpack or 3 headshots is not handicapping. it is challenge and you get better in time, if you spend your points wisely.

No, its not, all it does it makes me swing my stupid stone axe more, to grind more rock, to grind more wood, to search more bird nests, causing more activity related stamina softcap drain so I can craft more damn arrows to land 3 more head shots on several more zed.

That is NOT challenge, that is a tedious, arduous grind for the sake of arbitrary reasons of stretching out the early game and content.

Handicapping the player is not a challenge, it just creates more steps and forces us to spend more points than should really be necessary to achieve something we already should possess.

 

[Ghostlight]

When you said a ton of games I expected something else besides 7dtd. One game listed isnt exactly a ton of games. You might as well mod the current version if you want alpha 16.4 play style.

Fair enough.

The survival games I have played the most are:

Don't Starve

Long Dark

Sheltered

ARK (co-op only)

The Forest

Raft

This War of Mine

I do not find any of those tedious, though Raft gets so towards the end-game. And In none of them did I have to regularly stop what I was doing and do NOTHING till a meaningless bar refilled.

And if someone were to mod the new graphics, POIs and vehicles into A16.4, I assure you I would never play or even think about A17, ever again. There is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that A16.4 is by far the superior game. The things I dislike about A17 run very deep, and - I fear - cannot be fixed.

I personally enjoy survival games for 3 main aspects:

1) Never knowing what you will find and making the best of what you do find (while dealing with the gaps in what you don't) - this is the very thing that makes these games so replayable. Every run is different. A17 perks mean every run is predictable, and your progression identical.

2) Going out to find what I lack and rejoicing when I do find something significant that is playthrough-changing.

3) Continually exploring for progression. Every gun part slightly increased my firepower. It was simple but sufficient progression to keep me going.

A17 completely lacks (1) and (2), and you will be maxed out (have everything at top tier and more mods than you know what to do with) by day 30 as far as (3) goes.

 

[FileMachete]

*** right now it looks like the amount you can overeat and not waste food is 25.

25 food units over 100% unless I misread the buff.https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17&p=907183&viewfull=1#post907183

one bar is enough. but i agree. that stamina should not lower as soon hunger starts kick in. 25% is surely too low, but in my opinion, 75% could be about right. but then again, now you can overeat. i guess 150% is max as MM posted way back. it could be changed to 125% as someone mentioned. still, we need to eat, if we do something

Just to be clear, just in case; what I suggested would -not- change the 'food cost' for say mining 10 boulders. If mining 10 boulders used up 20 'food', it would still use 20 food. But if you started at 80% 'full', then while you mined the boulders your Stamina would refill to 100% when you rested, all the way through, even though by the end you would be at 60% food/fullness.

The 25% is from considering what my 'energy' lvl feels like when I go to the gym at various times. I actually don't like to go after I've just eaten. Seems best when it's been at least an hour and a half. Going 5 hours after last meal is when it feels like an energy struggle to get going. That's when grabbing an energy shake, not just a caff drink, helps.

To your point Axe, I could live w max Stamina starting to lower at 75% full, if it wasn't immediately a 1 for 1. Maybe curve it so at 50% full you'd still have a max stamina of 80%?

To me the point of the tweak would be to simply kill off the micromanagement of constant eating. An additional benefit would be to encourage making & using the higher tier food items, as others have mentioned.