PC Starting out is tough but it's fine.

S

Slingblade2040

Active member
So I've played b240 and I'm fine with it. People need to come to terms that starting out is suppose to be a struggle till you are established. Yes I also complained and whined about the changes especially to the trader but I adjusted and learned some perks aren't needed like some people suggest. I ignored mother load, pack mule, better barter and a few others and focused on things to help me survive.

After the starter quest I spent all the points on the perk that helps reduce water and food loss. 2 points in fortitude and 2 points in the water and food loss perk. After that I focused on skull crusher, sex Rex and rule 1 cardio.

I'm playing the game on Nomad till I get better and more adjusted to the changes. If most of you continue to struggle I advise you to lower the game difficulty till you get used to the changes, yes even if it means putting the game on the easiest settings and working your way up to harder difficulties.

 
The early game is not hard. It's just tedious, boring, and very reliant on RNG.
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Most game are like that lol. Minecraft, ark, GTA online, red dead 2, etc. Like explain what exactly you find boring and tedious? Don't just say it's X,Y and z without explaining why. Is it the leveling? The fact you have to gather things to build up a base? If folks just say oh its this and that without explaining why in detail then it's pointless feedback.

 
I actually love the new early game. Not a fan of the superhuman level of metabolism my character has but then again I am carrying like 47 metric tons of cobblestone and lumber in my backpack while nerd poling up to the top of a skyscraper so I can live with it lol.

It is a lot more challenging than A16 for sure. In A16 i could basically run into a skyscraper and beat the whole building down with a wooden club on day 1. So I think they made it much more suspenseful. In fact I think it should be even harder (in terms of enemies). I REALLY loved the first A17 build where you had high level zombies in almost every POI and 30 zombies in every wandering horde. If there were a difficulty settings that would give me that without also giving me bullet sponge zombies i would select it all the time (hint..hint.. *nudge nudge)

 
after your fourth or fifth restart when you make it to day 30+. Come back and tell us if you're still ok with the early game. just for science reasons of course. :)

 
Agree to disagree. I also find the start tedious & boring. And way too dependent on RNG.

This b240 start (Nav map) I spawned in snow biome. Did beginning tasks, cleared the house nearby. Got a couple empty jars, paper, bullets I think? Nothing important for starting off; no cooking pot, no food.

Just doing the opening tasks & mining about 200 Wood & Stone, then clearing the small poi had me down to ~60 Stamina. So ate the Chili, shoveled snow for water, filled up as far as I could on water.

--btw, I break enough boulder sections to make the iron reinforced club, it's a noticible improvement over wood club.

Start heading for the Trader. Arrow 3? lumberjacks along the way, avoid the rest. Loot all garbage & bird nests; got a clean jar of water, oil, etc, no food. No animals seen. At Trader, plenty for sale, but have no dukes. Stamina about 60 again. Loot trader containers, get a can of Tuna. Now have two cans. So fill up on water via cans, saving Jar of Clean.

Leaving traders see a rabbit; easy to see in snow, but not so easy to kill. Getting late. Make the kill. Had axed a gore pile so had a bone shiv, got 9? meat I think. Have ~10 eggs left after eating a couple raw. Make it south and already 19:30 (nomad, 90 min days). The large Gas station is now a dungeon. Work on clearing around the outside, start on the open garage area; there's now a large basement... Get that cleared, first floor z's start coming through into garage. kite them outside. now running. survive. Creep into garage, get up high; just in time, hear a wolf & I'm at 25 health. Wolf comes in & thankfully is pathing confused, so able to drop him w arrows. No other z's aggro. creep down and clean him for? ~20 meat?

Get back up on perch, risk building & lighting a campfire. Char & eat all the meat, had already used Medbandage, so back to ~80 Health? Drink fill, refill two cans. Twiddle my thumbs rest of the night.

Wait till actually light, so 6ish, go out to punch grass to make and place bedroll. Clear rest of poi. Can of Pasta & Can of Catfood. No pot. Couple t1 pistols.

-- forgot to mention, Workbench only station usable at snow traders; not the forge.

Clearing poi earned me a whack or two so Health at ~50. Canned food gets me to ~60. Spend rest of good light hours roaming for nests & hoping for boar/deer/wolves. See a rabbit, no joy killing it in the tall grass. Take everything worth any dukes, run to trader. Able to buy a couple things from vending machine. Make it 'home' alive. Start trying to break out the ceiling tiles in upper office to put in wood bars. Aggro a couple z's, take care of them ok. Stam/Food falling fast fom simply stone axing ceiling tiles. At 50 Food/Stam stop and twiddle thumbs rest of the night.

Have ~20 eggs. Bought Master Chef. No pot. ~4 meat.

---enough---

If RNG had the forge working at Traders I could have made a Cooking Pot. That one single thing would have made a big difference in the first three+ days. (only got a pot by heading due south, frickin -walking- due to food burn using any stamina, to burnt biome and looting the quarter houses there; and I -knew- where to go since Nav map)


-Actually should also note that I did get food sickness from raw eggs, that took ~30? Health & seemed to further kill Stam/Food.


Since I choose to retain the belt on death, once I found a pot, I put it there and _really_ hoped something would just come along and put me out of my misery.

 


Just my opinion but the bat♥♥♥♥ crazy level of importance a frickin _cooking pot_ has on the first week is just bad.


The fact that I dared to spend an early point on Pack Mule instead of Rule 1 gimps me? Just bad.

 


If the current consumption levels are such that the only way to 'enjoy' the game is by buying -any-perks- then the rates are -bad-.

 


Basically if the core mechanics are so wacked that they -must- be adjusted by buying very specific perks, that's an issue.

 


I would recommend that testing be done without buying any perks. Only a single animal spawn in players sight every two days. No cooking pot. For the entire first week. Once that extreme edge case is balanced so that it doesn't result in rage quits, then I'll shut the hell up.

 
I’m on my 50th or 60th restart at least after the last five years and especially this past year with A17 taking so long. Love the early game. Don’t love the starter quest any more I must admit...

 
Same here. I love the struggle. Some things may be tedious, can't argue that... but I take on the attitude that I have to do what I have to do if I want to survive.

 
It amazes me how many say it's boring in the early going. That's the best part of the game and the only time it's really survival. The rest of the time it's just too easy with too much food around.

TOO MUCH GRIND?

A lot of you people on these forums are playing the wrong game imo lol. I can't figure out what kind of game you people even want? Minecraft creative? No? You hate grind though? Or at least claim to hate it.

So how much wood would the player get per chop at lvl 1 with a stone axe? 5000? 500? 50?

how much exp per tree?

The game you people want- sounds like a super easy game I would max out in just 1 day of playing. Sounds boring to me. The game used to be like this in earlier alphas- and yeah in alpha 5, I got bored in about 8 hours- did everything worth doing. Adding more content to the game wouldn't even pad it out much, you have to have grind and roadblocks to slow the progression down.

THE SOLUTION?

Pimps need to make a mode (or more options related to progression) for us who WANT it to be harder and grindier, and a 7 days to fun mode for all you people who seem to want to just build- or want everything fast, easy accessible and with little work. The kind of game I find abhorrent.

 
Let me clarify a bit.

It's the very high Stamina/Food consumption rate/s that's killing any fun for me in early game.

I've already begun tweaking them. And I'll add in some kind of egg recipe that doesn't require a cooking pot.

Besides the Stam/Food, the rest is ok. Z's could be tougher, but there's a difficulty bump for that. Would prefer, for roleplaying mainly, that there were still a few 'old' houses/POIs instead of the seeming dominance of dungeons, just because I can't imagine taking on something like that if you were actually truly concerned about dying.

Edit: the "boring" part is that the _grinding_ is gated by food

Edit2: I used to not leave the starter zone without 4-500 Wood/Stone. Now I stop around 200 since it burns too much food to grind more than that.

And just in case I mistakenly got lumped in; I didn't mention harvest amounts or xp, or even levels.

Edit3: The low health, totally ok sitting in corner very slowly healing up, hoping that wolf didn't tear the frame out from under me; for the first couple days. -Would- be totally ok knowing I need to prioritise a desert trip to collect Aloe for some healing. Except that I don't have the food to afford it; I'll be budgetting all my food to grinding materials, and stuck w either RNG gifting painpills/Medbandages or, again, twiddling my thumbs while I slowly heal (if a looting day, then it becomes a wander around looking for game/nests, instead of poi clearing).

 
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Let me clarify a bit.
It's the very high Stamina/Food consumption rate/s that's killing any fun for me in early game.

I've already begun tweaking them. And I'll add in some kind of egg recipe that doesn't require a cooking pot.

Besides the Stam/Food, the rest is ok. Z's could be tougher, but there's a difficulty bump for that. Would prefer, for roleplaying mainly, that there were still a few 'old' houses/POIs instead of the seeming dominance of dungeons, just because I can't imagine taking on something like that if you were actually truly concerned about dying.

Edit: the "boring" part is that the _grinding_ is gated by food
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I can see a few players feeling this way.

I'll be modding every tool and weapon myself. I want things to "appear" faster ... so it will.

I get where you're coming from.

I still like the beginning game anyway. It's fun.

 
I can see a few players feeling this way.
I'll be modding every tool and weapon myself. I want things to "appear" faster ... so it will.

I get where you're coming from.

I still like the beginning game anyway. It's fun.
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Thanks, and no worries :) I'm a bit burnt out, I know it. No question a bit of the 'dripping faucet'. Like you're out for a drive, lovely day, good car, pretty sights.

But you have to stop every 25 miles and fill up on gas. And there's no gaurentee there'll be a gas station. heh.

Edit: should note that due to old pc I only have LOD at 15%, so could well be that I'm literally -not- seeing game that others would/do.

 
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I ignored mother load, pack mule, better barter and a few others and focused on things to help me survive.
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You're doing it wrong.

Pack Mule is essential, as inventory management is the worst mechanic in the history of gaming. Better Barter is absolutely essential given how much earlier you can buy gear than you can make it. Stam perks are great, damage resist and +armor are great, skull crusher is great.

So, you aren't doing it entirely wrong.

 
Heyho.

Having 'Essentials' in this Perk-System is one thing of a problem. Another one is the survival aspect. I assume that the devs clearly had no clue how survival kind of works and what a complete untrained person could do, to survive. Actually, there is much more you could do than just to hunt for meat irl and things a untrained person can eat to survive.

"Better drink my piss"

- Bear Grylls

Lets stick to the meat-survivalists. Meat must achieved through murder (Problem, PETA? :p ) but jokes aside. A untrained person will NOT get much out of a carcass of, lets say, a deer but one thing most persons will know: Legs. Rip off the legs and throw them in the fire to grill the meat and tada, 4 legs, 4 days of survival.

In '7dtd' it is represented by hitting the carcass and getting a random number of usable meat. And here comes in my imagination, because you need 5 raw meat to produce 1 edible meat. "Hmm, those meat-chunks are probably not bigger than my thumb, and putting meat together worth 5 times the size of my thumb would give me at least a tiny bit of meat that i can eat"

Its silly i know, but thats the only way i personally could imagine this. Beside, making a grill is really not that hard and i really dont understand the extra need to it but well, its not my game.

So, i see the survival can be tough in the "early" game and having the current system work the way it works now, makes it fake-hard and hard in this case is just tedious grinding. And i am a person who really enjoys grinding. And no, just because someone does not enjoy grinding or the way the game works, does not mean they want it super easy. Read. Think. Discuss. Very important. I dont want it super easy but i want a survival game that is fun and rewarding followed by challenge to survive.

Currently its a (horde)-zombieshooter with survival aspect. And if you see it that way, the game is barely decent and its randomness of finding stuff (i have so many weapons and ammo but food-wise? I rely on eggs and meat. Within the last days i did find just 2 cans of food. And i am raiding A LOT)

Its a17 experimental and i think the devs will try out a lot! Lets hope that they also listen to its community.

May the seventh day be in your favor.

 
Pehaps those finding early game tedious and boring should try FPS or battle royales because all survival games require “work” early game to survive. If you insist on playing this game then just spawn in those end game items too tedious and boring to work for and go from there, game gives you options to avoid grind.

 
I’m on my 50th or 60th restart at least after the last five years and especially this past year with A17 taking so long. Love the early game. Don’t love the starter quest any more I must admit...
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Me too, I just cancel it these days and get moving.

I love the early game. It's the only time I feel worried for my character when there aren't external threats around. I read someone's comment the other day... something like "I don't cheer when finding guns any more, I cheer when finding bones." I think it's a fairly good indication of the stress of the early game that I cheer to find a cooking pot, or even an empty can.

I tend not to settle down immediately.

 
So I've played b240 and I'm fine with it. People need to come to terms that starting out is suppose to be a struggle till you are established. Yes I also complained and whined about the changes especially to the trader but I adjusted and learned some perks aren't needed like some people suggest. I ignored mother load, pack mule, better barter and a few others and focused on things to help me survive..
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Have you been under a rock? The complaint is not about difficulty early game, it's about tedium. Example: people are obessing about the Forge, not because they need a Forge, but because the Forge represents a major reduction in the tedium.

- - - Updated - - -

Pehaps those finding early game tedious and boring should try FPS or battle royales because all survival games require “work” early game to survive. If you insist on playing this game then just spawn in those end game items too tedious and boring to work for and go from there, game gives you options to avoid grind.
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It didn't used to be tedious. A17 introduced that. And this is coming from someone whose favourite part of the game was always the first few weeks. I play a ton of survival games and do not find their early games tedious at all.

I enjoy the "make the best of what you find" aspect and also the "go out exploring and experience the joy of finding a rare thing" aspect of such games above all. In A17 that is completely gone, replaced with "you will get precisely the same things at precisely the same level". Do you know how much the game lost for me because of that??

A17 play-throughs have became Predictable. A word that should NEVER apply to a survival game. Ever.

 
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Agree to disagree. I also find the start tedious & boring. And way too dependent on RNG.
This b240 start (Nav map) I spawned in snow biome. Did beginning tasks, cleared the house nearby. Got a couple empty jars, paper, bullets I think? Nothing important for starting off; no cooking pot, no food.

Just doing the opening tasks & mining about 200 Wood & Stone, then clearing the small poi had me down to ~60 Stamina. So ate the Chili, shoveled snow for water, filled up as far as I could on water.

--btw, I break enough boulder sections to make the iron reinforced club, it's a noticible improvement over wood club.

Start heading for the Trader. Arrow 3? lumberjacks along the way, avoid the rest. Loot all garbage & bird nests; got a clean jar of water, oil, etc, no food. No animals seen. At Trader, plenty for sale, but have no dukes. Stamina about 60 again. Loot trader containers, get a can of Tuna. Now have two cans. So fill up on water via cans, saving Jar of Clean.

Leaving traders see a rabbit; easy to see in snow, but not so easy to kill. Getting late. Make the kill. Had axed a gore pile so had a bone shiv, got 9? meat I think. Have ~10 eggs left after eating a couple raw. Make it south and already 19:30 (nomad, 90 min days). The large Gas station is now a dungeon. Work on clearing around the outside, start on the open garage area; there's now a large basement... Get that cleared, first floor z's start coming through into garage. kite them outside. now running. survive. Creep into garage, get up high; just in time, hear a wolf & I'm at 25 health. Wolf comes in & thankfully is pathing confused, so able to drop him w arrows. No other z's aggro. creep down and clean him for? ~20 meat?

Get back up on perch, risk building & lighting a campfire. Char & eat all the meat, had already used Medbandage, so back to ~80 Health? Drink fill, refill two cans. Twiddle my thumbs rest of the night.

Wait till actually light, so 6ish, go out to punch grass to make and place bedroll. Clear rest of poi. Can of Pasta & Can of Catfood. No pot. Couple t1 pistols.

-- forgot to mention, Workbench only station usable at snow traders; not the forge.

Clearing poi earned me a whack or two so Health at ~50. Canned food gets me to ~60. Spend rest of good light hours roaming for nests & hoping for boar/deer/wolves. See a rabbit, no joy killing it in the tall grass. Take everything worth any dukes, run to trader. Able to buy a couple things from vending machine. Make it 'home' alive. Start trying to break out the ceiling tiles in upper office to put in wood bars. Aggro a couple z's, take care of them ok. Stam/Food falling fast fom simply stone axing ceiling tiles. At 50 Food/Stam stop and twiddle thumbs rest of the night.

Have ~20 eggs. Bought Master Chef. No pot. ~4 meat.

---enough---

If RNG had the forge working at Traders I could have made a Cooking Pot. That one single thing would have made a big difference in the first three+ days. (only got a pot by heading due south, frickin -walking- due to food burn using any stamina, to burnt biome and looting the quarter houses there; and I -knew- where to go since Nav map)


-Actually should also note that I did get food sickness from raw eggs, that took ~30? Health & seemed to further kill Stam/Food.


Since I choose to retain the belt on death, once I found a pot, I put it there and _really_ hoped something would just come along and put me out of my misery.

 


Just my opinion but the bat♥♥♥♥ crazy level of importance a frickin _cooking pot_ has on the first week is just bad.


The fact that I dared to spend an early point on Pack Mule instead of Rule 1 gimps me? Just bad.

 


If the current consumption levels are such that the only way to 'enjoy' the game is by buying -any-perks- then the rates are -bad-.

 


Basically if the core mechanics are so wacked that they -must- be adjusted by buying very specific perks, that's an issue.

 


I would recommend that testing be done without buying any perks. Only a single animal spawn in players sight every two days. No cooking pot. For the entire first week. Once that extreme edge case is balanced so that it doesn't result in rage quits, then I'll shut the hell up.
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Wow, that sounds not only challenging but hella fun! At least for me it would have. The challenge is the fun for some. May RNG smile on you from this point forward to increase your enjoyment ;)

 
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