PC Spoilage of building materials

"Tedious", "Micromanagement", and "Artificial Difficulty" are the trifecta of excuses people give for anything that increases the survival aspect of the game. All it means though is that they are not fans of actual survival games.

 
If I wanted to play a game with food spoilage, I would play ark. Ark, like others have mentioned before, has actual USES for spoiled food. I doubt whatever idea the devs would have for using spoiled food would ever really fly with me. Hell, I dont even farm, because I dont want to waste what little game time I have to micromanage a farm in game, esp playing MP.

 
If I wanted to play a game with food spoilage, I would play ark. Ark, like others have mentioned before, has actual USES for spoiled food. I doubt whatever idea the devs would have for using spoiled food would ever really fly with me. Hell, I dont even farm, because I dont want to waste what little game time I have to micromanage a farm in game, esp playing MP.
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You mean you don't NEED to farm because food is so plentiful and never spoils so you always have an abundance. The way the game should be is that if you ignore farming you WILL run out of food. A garden should be one of the first things you get going so that when the cans run out and the area is fully hunted you have something to sustain yourself. As for "micromanaging" a farm in this game I'm not sure what you are talking about. You never have to water or replant. It couldn't get any less management intensive unless you had a farmer dropping off the crops to you...

 
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Roland, if I get to the point where I HAVE to plant a farm, I will just mod out spoilage. Yes, it takes away the survival aspect. You guys already killed any form of realism for me when you took out "spam crafting". Made 100x more sense then killing zombies and magicaly knowing how to make better tools, or how to build a forge. So adding spoilage should not really be an option, or if it is, they really should put an option when we start the game. Like how Ark does it. They have it so you can make the spoiling timer go faster, or slower. Even not at all, if memory serves me correctly.

 
Roland, if I get to the point where I HAVE to plant a farm, I will just mod out spoilage. Yes, it takes away the survival aspect. You guys already killed any form of realism for me when you took out "spam crafting". Made 100x more sense then killing zombies and magicaly knowing how to make better tools, or how to build a forge. So adding spoilage should not really be an option, or if it is, they really should put an option when we start the game. Like how Ark does it. They have it so you can make the spoiling timer go faster, or slower. Even not at all, if memory serves me correctly.
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An option is all we've been talking about. I don't want to force anyone to have to play the survival game that was advertised. Of course, I believe it should be optional. Pushing this game towards the sim end of the spectrum will appeal only to some so I agree with you. Nobody is fighting with you about vanilla.

 
Roland, if I get to the point where I HAVE to plant a farm, I will just mod out spoilage. Yes, it takes away the survival aspect. You guys already killed any form of realism for me when you took out "spam crafting". Made 100x more sense then killing zombies and magicaly knowing how to make better tools, or how to build a forge. So adding spoilage should not really be an option, or if it is, they really should put an option when we start the game. Like how Ark does it. They have it so you can make the spoiling timer go faster, or slower. Even not at all, if memory serves me correctly.
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you can mod it out (if it ever gets implemented)

but to say that they ruined one aspect therefor another shouldnt be implemented is not a good argument and comes across more as butthurt then as a real thought through argument.

 
There must be some kind of threats to the farm / some investment.Such as watering, fertilizing, growth lamps (electricity / gasoline), zombies destroying them, weather/temperature, manually removing bugs.
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As I've stated in this very thread, I hope of Zombie-trampling-of-crops (last seen in A9) comes back some day.

 
"Tedious", "Micromanagement", and "Artificial Difficulty" are the trifecta of excuses people give for anything that increases the survival aspect of the game. All it means though is that they are not fans of actual survival games.
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Oh, sorry, yes, I forgot: It also is tedious and provides artificial difficulty :cocksure: .

A one-time use of a resource that is controlled and not too abundant, like fertilizer, would just fix it. One can even create a successful zero entropy cycle of food -> spoiled food -> fertilizer -> food. If zero entropy is impossible with spoiled food alone, add another appropriate material. Spoiled yields would also fix it - with larger crop decay times than yields themselves the micromanagement of yields would be exactly ...zero, as long as the player doesn't make large enough farms to worry about it.

I don't like zombies targeting plants tbh - creates its own problems, exploits blah blah - so many simpler and more immersive solutions already.
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In other words, reign in the exponential growth seed crafting provides (more or less, your description leaves a lot of details open). IMO that exp. growth is the biggest problem here and without it even the need for spoiled food might be gone.

An idea that I had already proposed in A16 was that seeds can't be produced but only found (or produced from naturally grown plants, never from your own seeded plants). RIP exponential growth, the food explosion is missing the fuse.

 
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In other words, reign in the exponential growth seed crafting provides (more or less, your description leaves a lot of details open). IMO that exp. growth is the biggest problem here and without it even the need for spoiled food might be gone.

An idea that I had already proposed in A16 was that seeds can't be produced but only found (or produced from naturally grown plants, never from your own seeded plants). RIP exponential growth, the food explosion is missing the fuse.
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Well if I get more descriptive none will read my posts :p

You can reign it in but If you just remove the exponential growth by not being able to get seeds from your plants, you just kill the concept of farming and when looting seeds you might as well just be looting soon-to-be-food. I think exponential growth and farming go hand in hand.

 
Well if I get more descriptive none will read my posts :p
You can reign it in but If you just remove the exponential growth by not being able to get seeds from your plants, you just kill the concept of farming and when looting seeds you might as well just be looting soon-to-be-food. I think exponential growth and farming go hand in hand.
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If you declare it as essential for the concept, then sure. How could I dispute a god-given rule! :cocksure:

Seriuosly, I'm really not enough of a farmer-type player to question your assertion in terms of what they like (if that is part of your point).

In terms of balance there is a big difference though, without spoilage you have your supply growing at a steady rate and the point where you are self-sufficient can be controlled very accurately by the developer.

But even with spoilage: If you have exponential growth you have to add some form of spoilage into every step of food production, seeds, grown plants, the fruits and the processed dishes. Without exp. growth spoilage on seeds or plants is enough to make you always on the hunt for further seeds or any stockpile you have will dwindle again.

 
If you declare it as essential for the concept, then sure. How could I dispute a god-given rule! :cocksure:
Seriuosly, I'm really not enough of a farmer-type player to question your assertion in terms of what they like (if that is part of your point).

In terms of balance there is a big difference though, without spoilage you have your supply growing at a steady rate and the point where you are self-sufficient can be controlled very accurately by the developer.

But even with spoilage: If you have exponential growth you have to add some form of spoilage into every step of food production, seeds, grown plants, the fruits and the processed dishes. Without exp. growth spoilage on seeds or plants is enough to make you always on the hunt for further seeds or any stockpile you have will dwindle again.
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You cant really control the farming output: players could just plant more.

One player might have 20x more plants planted than the other one. The total output per player just cant be balanced with a single "growth speed" variable.

Farming output should be tied to player-(time)-investment, just as other resources (that have to be constantly mined) are.

The main problem with food is still: its a pointless items after a certain time, as more can be accumulated than can be consumed.

It gets to be a non issue after a while, as there will be no shortage.

That just does not feel like a survival situation.

 
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The main problem with food is still: its a pointless items after a certain time, as more can be accumulated than can be consumed.

It gets to be a non issue after a while, as there will be no shortage.

That just does not feel like a survival situation.
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That is not a problem. That is progression. The whole point is that you start out with scarcity and low tech that keeps the threat of starvation a real possibility and over time you move to a position of abundance where you thrive and it becomes a non-issue. Just because you eventually will get to the point that food is a non-issue doesn't mean you just make it a non-issue from the very beginning.

Eventually, you will have a top armor rating, perks, and guns and become unstoppable and extremely hard to kill. That doesn't mean we should just make people have all that from the get go.

 
Food management is as much an important part of "survival" as managing ones health, safety, defenses, emergency resources and firepower.

I am glad that TFP is starting to work on this aspect of survival with greater focus but hold out for improvements to the number and ways Food resources themselves are obtained and managed.

 
Currently its like a non issue after the first few days, unless the player really does not invest any time into acquiring it.

After that its mainly just getting specific foods with special bonuses.

beating the nutrition game should come way later in the progression.

 
You cant really control the farming output: players could just plant more.
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You are aware I was talking about a change that would have players not being able to craft seeds from their own plants? It means players can't just produce incrementally more seeds, and can't plant anything if they don't find any seeds.

One player might have 20x more plants planted than the other one. The total output per player just cant be balanced with a single "growth speed" variable.
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How did that one player get 20x more seeds than the other?

Naturally there is a random element included with scavenging seeds, so one person will have a little more, another a little less. Assume seeds to be found in a frequency similar to acid bottles. You would have to supplement your garden with other food for a loooong time.

 
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Speaking of spoilage, anyone remember the rotten meat and fertilizers on A16? We might need a calory/disease system to balance Food input/output, eating too much should result in obesity,i might want to put the fridge in use to counter spoiling,remember the cold in Starvation ? I really wish A18 would bring the gardening system back in A16,or it just my fantasy anyway

 
I would like to add my support for material spoilage (at least in some hard-survival mode!)

Wood that rots in 2 weeks because this zombie virus thing is like, a super mold or something.

Cobblestone that crumbles after a month as rainwater seeps into the cracks.

Concrete that also starts to crack and shatter after 3 months.

Metal that begins to warp\rust\collapse after 6 months.

This could also apply to poi's but then they should probably respawn after a year or something.

World decay would be amazing. Thank you OP for this fantastic idea. Project zomboid does something like this, but it's mostly just vegetation growth like vines on buildings.

And yes I am a fan of food spoilage too, as long as it's kept somewhat realistic. If my corn goes bad in only 2 hours...

 
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