PC Some A17 thoughts

[Indoorsman]

So nobody can reply about how building has been compromised in A17? I guess we'll leave it as is unless someone can provide some kind of logic as to how your play style was compromised.
As for single player, the game is cake on normal settings, and I disable air drops and play with 24 zeds on horde night. At least so far, I'm on day 11 and I'm level 31. If anything the game is leveling too fast and its too easy. I had iron tools on day 1, some steel tools by day 2. Bicycle by day 9 or 10. I had my forge to make my own ingots the same day my iron tools wore out. I have hundreds of meat in my box, loads of corn and potaoes but I can't make stew yet, didn't need to bacon and eggs is good enough for now. Horde night and an occasional feral are the only things that challenge me so far.

I also had iron tools day 1, some steel by day 2... Let me ask you, do you not find it disheartening that these steel tools from day 2 are the best you're ever going to get... for the rest of the game ... Sure, you'll get "higher quality" versions but since that only impacts durability, I'm finding it incredibly boring ...

 

[hotpoon]

MP Public server list always shows at least 100 active players no matter the time of day I look at it for the past 2 weeks. That’s just publicly listed servers. Before a17 it was very dead.
Squeaky wheels make the most noise.

People are playing because it's the first update in over a year. Let's wait for the patch hype to die down before we start calling people squeaky wheels you insulting little chop.

 

[stasis78]

People are playing because it's the first update in over a year. Let's wait for the patch hype to die down before we start calling people squeaky wheels you insulting little chop.

Steam reviews are always a troll fest. The game has many content creators on YouTube and other platforms. The streamers I watch are still producing content. The comments are mixed but comparing that to steam reviews paints a very different story.

Using steam reviews as your only source? Try to do some more research.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

People are playing because it's the first update in over a year. Let's wait for the patch hype to die down before we start calling people squeaky wheels you insulting little chop.

What you just said is 200% true, people just want to see what the update offers, they will go back to their more interesting games after the hype is down because "This game still sucks." (Everyone I play with is saying this, "Don't bother." "They've HorseFked this game." "Game is even more pointless now." These are the comments I'm getting from long term 3-5 year + friends who have played this game in some various several seeds and have more than a few thousand hours of played time across multiple patches . No one wants to play. I wonder why.

I myself have close to 5000 hours,(Played since A6) and you know what, if the game didn't suck I'd have over 10,000 hours. I used to not get enough of this game, now I can't stand it for more than an hour or two. I just get bored.

I have not lost my love for the game, because I can still play other games that have building and survival elements and find myself up till the next day on weekends.

This game has UNLIMITED potential with its only limited by the players creativity, the ability to manipulate,build,craft almost anything. This game could overtake minecraft in sales and keep players playing as long as players have been addicted to games like EverQuest and WorldofWarcraft.

I've said my peace on Multiplayer Many MANY patches ago. (A12 I think ) Where players are more likely to rage quit and leave a server if they are raided or pvp killed, SI instability destroyed my A16 playing as the traps were AMAZING for a person who loves building elaborate bases. But randomly falling blocks when there was clearly proper support just made me say "Fk it.. and quit to go play something else."

and also there are even more bigger problems with this.

Locally downloading the map means anyone can locate and find anyone's base without even being on the server, they can do so in a single player game seed uninhibited by admin policing.

 

[madmole]

A16 was great, mostly because I could play it for more than 5 minutes before wanting to throw up from all the microstutter.
From the very little I've gotten to play A17, I can say the combat is way better in A17 at least. Archery and melee feel way more solid now. It sounds like you guys might need to backtrack on some of your A17 ideas though. Judging from your Steam reviews since 23 Dec, I think you and your player base maybe have different ideas about what is fun.

Performance I get. We'll fix the stuttering. We'll balance things too, but we're not changing any core systems. Some people just need to play the game and unlock the perks they want to play how they like. Its not all unlocked overnight, but we support more player styles now than ever if people stop complaining for two seconds and treat it like a new game or sequel and embrace what they have. Or go play a16 if you like it, noone is stopping you. For me A16 had no challenge.

 

[Sergoros]

So nobody can reply about how building has been compromised in A17? I guess we'll leave it as is unless someone can provide some kind of logic as to how your play style was compromised.

How about building more, than just 1 single base? How about players who want to have multiple protected bases? Their playstyle seems pretty much compromised to me. With 1 claim block you can protect only 1 place. Can't have castle in 1 place and then market in another. Unless you want said place griefed ofc.

 

[crazyduck]

Performance I get. We'll fix the stuttering. We'll balance things too, but we're not changing any core systems. Some people just need to play the game and unlock the perks they want to play how they like. Its not all unlocked overnight, but we support more player styles now than ever if people stop complaining for two seconds and treat it like a new game or sequel and embrace what they have. Or go play a16 if you like it, noone is stopping you. For me A16 had no challenge.

ok so madmole this is a simple and clear answer.

You and the other Devs are not interestet if people who already bought your game like it or not cause you already got the cash from this people and now after you have it you think its fine to make so many changes to game mechanic that its a different Game.

All i read from you and some other Devs is

"we dont care if you like it or not we like it so it stay" and this if i remember one of your Posts in another tread only cause YOU played other games and stopped after reaching max level. Fine then remove this entire level sh... from 7days to die again and let people play without levels and let them learn and get better with using skills and not with pushing a button and getting the knowledge to craft a forge from killing a zombie.

But why i say that, really will not happen. After you sold enough Games to the early Access people and got enough cash its time to modifiy the game enough to get the cash from the people who did not buy the game before cause it was not easy mode enough and not enough "insert random FPS Game" style.

possible i´m wrong but thats how i understand the Answers from you and some other Devs and Mods here in this Forum.

 

[Thorne]

Yikes. Today I learned most people giving feedback in this Alpha DONT want to play a zombie survival game.
If people want a STRICT building game that is what creative is for. I never understood how you could buy this game, knowing its a zombie survival crafting game and then try to phase the threat of zombies OUT when there is a perfectly acceptable game mode that allows just that.

For me I always enjoyed trying to make my builds while under the threat of the zombies. It makes defending your build that much more exciting. Remove that then what is there to actually DO.

Wrong conclusion. We play 7D2D, even though we don't want to be fighting zombies, because it gives us a REASON to build great defensive structures. Minecrafting is fun (I've never played Minecraft), crafting is fun, gardening is fun, but without an element of danger it gets dull--it lacks purpose. In 7D2D surviving is the purpose. I love that there is a threat, but I want to be able to neutralize that threat--that's the challenge. If I CAN'T ultimately neutralize that threat (without an unreasonable amount of maintenance), then it's no longer a challenge I can win.

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy going out and mixing it up with zombies now and again, but that isn't the primary draw for me.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

Performance I get. We'll fix the stuttering. We'll balance things too, but we're not changing any core systems. Some people just need to play the game and unlock the perks they want to play how they like. Its not all unlocked overnight, but we support more player styles now than ever if people stop complaining for two seconds and treat it like a new game or sequel and embrace what they have. Or go play a16 if you like it, noone is stopping you. For me A16 had no challenge.

So customer satisfaction is not a primary goal of yours and you don't care about the players that bought your game prior to when it took a turn for the worse and started to suck horribly?

The game still isn't a challenge, its hard just for the wrong reasons, you handicap your players and call that challenge. That's artificial difficulty and stretching out content through unfair difficulty, that's what 8-bit NES games did back in the 1980's so customers got their money's worth out of the game due to memory limitations with the game hardware, however you are not limited and therefore have no excuse.

So TFP are basically LJN in disguise now.

 

[Thorne]

More player styles than ever before? Maybe. I'm willing to give it a go, in spite of my initial takes in comparison with A16. As for treating it like a new game or a sequel, well... ya done that to yourself. Maybe it would have been easier had it actually been a new game or a sequel instead of the hopes and dreams of A15/A16 players (don't speak for the rest) looking forward to the aspects of the game they enjoyed being finished.

 

[stasis78]

More player styles than ever before? Maybe. I'm willing to give it a go, in spite of my initial takes in comparison with A16. As for treating it like a new game or a sequel, well... ya done that to yourself. Maybe it would have been easier had it actually been a new game or a sequel instead of the hopes and dreams of A15/A16 players (don't speak for the rest) wanting the game they were playing to be finished.
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I’ve been playing since a14. I’m happy overall with a17 so far. Lots more to come and I’ll wait for the more.

 

[Thecolours]

If you trusted Madmoles decision making through A16, then you should trust it in A17. You dont have to agree with it, but when you purchase a game, you have to know you are buying into the developers vision. They can't change everything based on player feedback, some things they have to draw a line in the sand. Imagine if a GM of a sports team make all his decisions based on what fans wanted.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

If you trusted Madmoles decision making through A16, then you should trust it in A17. You dont have to agree with it, but when you purchase a game, you have to know you are buying into the developers vision. They can't change everything based on player feedback, some things they have to draw a line in the sand. Imagine if a GM of a sports team make all his decisions based on what fans wanted.

The thing is most of the more intelligent players don't trust or agree with some of the changes, and instead of taking some of the feedback from those players its blatantly said we don't care what you think, you'll just have to deal with it, even though they are asking for feedback, so we give it, and it gets ridiculed.

 

[crazyduck]

If you trusted Madmoles decision making through A16, then you should trust it in A17. You dont have to agree with it, but when you purchase a game, you have to know you are buying into the developers vision. They can't change everything based on player feedback, some things they have to draw a line in the sand. Imagine if a GM of a sports team make all his decisions based on what fans wanted.

Problem is this GM of a sports team would say new Football Rules are same as Tennis Rules. Cause that is was is happening with 7days to die , the rules change with every alpha and not only a little bit or that you see something is now more balanced or polished but its totally different.

Tell me how can this be a vision of a developer if the only vision is to redo again and again most parts of the game only to get stupid jumpscares , ghost zombies beaming behind the player easy mode crafting and more of this stupid changes?

If that was the game madmole and the other Devs wantet to make they shoudl have said that from day 1 they start selling it and not selling people a survival game with zombies and a detailed crafting only to change it into some sort of ego shooter with crafting and survival elements.

 

[stasis78]

That’s the thing with being in software though. A disproportionate number of “unhappy” folks voice their opinions and loudly. Happy people rarely say anything. When happy people express their opinions then they are just fanbois and their opinion “doesn’t matter”.

Very few people are going to go post raving reviews about a game that is still alpha pre release. Plenty of unhappy folks will happily spout vitriol though. Again squeaky wheels.

 

[stasis78]

It doesn’t surprise me but most of these threads are simply people speaking saying “a majority of players” think the same why I do. The reality is farther from any of these threads as the majority of players don’t come to the forums, don’t post reviews on steam, and certainly don’t write game reviews anywhere.

The fact is no one knows definitively that x% is happy and y% is not happy. But please, continue speaking for a bunch of people you don’t know how they feel. Don’t expect me to believe anything you say about “unhappy” players being the majority.

 

[madmole]

The thing is most of the more intelligent players don't trust or agree with some of the changes, and instead of taking some of the feedback from those players its blatantly said we don't care what you think, you'll just have to deal with it, even though they are asking for feedback, so we give it, and it gets ridiculed.

We change things that are crude placeholders. Stuff that was hacked in with the meager engine capabilities of 2015-16. We always wanted this sytem, people just got used to to crude placeholder even though it was horrible. Who are these "more intelligent players"? Don't like it? Mod it out. I hate vanilla Oblivion leveling and used a mod that was way better IMO. You don't have to like everything we do, but if you like 60% of it and play for more than 20 hours, I think we did a great job considering all the 60 dollar turds out there people play for 10 minutes then delete and forget about.

At the end of the day I wanted a game that let you talk about what build or class you created, and have a skill an attribute and perk system that let you play how you wanted to play not how to grind stone axes and what other exploits are the best cheesy way to cheese your way to being OP.

Its not that we don't care about the customer. A few squeaky wheels might not like this or that, but overall its much more entertaining than ever in most players opinions. There isn't one compelling argument that is convincing that A16 skill system was better. People need to play a long term game of 200 hours before judging. Sorry its not end game in 15 hours like A15 was. So until some time has passed we can't change anything or really get a clear picture about what is better or worse.

And this is off topic anyway, I wanted to talk about why players can't build what they want to build. The single land claim issue is noted but not easily solved.

 

[madmole]

It doesn’t surprise me but most of these threads are simply people speaking saying “a majority of players” think the same why I do. The reality is farther from any of these threads as the majority of players don’t come to the forums, don’t post reviews on steam, and certainly don’t write game reviews anywhere.
The fact is no one knows definitively that x% is happy and y% is not happy. But please, continue speaking for a bunch of people you don’t know how they feel. Don’t expect me to believe anything you say about “unhappy” players being the majority.

Totally this. For every "majority of" I have an even bigger "majority of". Majority of people you agree with lol. There is very little facts other than gut feelings and we feel we've knocked it out of the park with A17, once the performance and balance are there its a big win.

 

[madmole]

Problem is this GM of a sports team would say new Football Rules are same as Tennis Rules. Cause that is was is happening with 7days to die , the rules change with every alpha and not only a little bit or that you see something is now more balanced or polished but its totally different.
Tell me how can this be a vision of a developer if the only vision is to redo again and again most parts of the game only to get stupid jumpscares , ghost zombies beaming behind the player easy mode crafting and more of this stupid changes?

If that was the game madmole and the other Devs wantet to make they shoudl have said that from day 1 they start selling it and not selling people a survival game with zombies and a detailed crafting only to change it into some sort of ego shooter with crafting and survival elements.

This game actually appears to resemble the kickstarter finally. Its supposed to be an RPG. Finally we have quests and npcs and a real skill system. Everything else is essentially the same. We do need to properly balance it, but can you explain how its not fun for you now? How many hours have you played a17?

 

[crazyduck]

This game actually appears to resemble the kickstarter finally. Its supposed to be an RPG. Finally we have quests and npcs and a real skill system. Everything else is essentially the same. We do need to properly balance it, but can you explain how its not fun for you now? How many hours have you played a17?

Sure i can explain it madmole or i can try.

I play alpha 17 since minimum 50 hours inclluding experimental build. The rest of the time i try to mod the Game into something me and most People on my server like more.

And now about the not fun part.

this things are not fun for me anymore .

1. Skill system like the current one, learn to cook cause you kill zombies but not cause you read a recipe book or learn by doing.

2. Resources this mean stacksizes, generic resources removal of resources

3 Crafting. First Skill system again then removal of Quality for Parts and the influence it had on crafting at same time Mods to make the Iron Axe more Powerful or Dye a Bow and make more damage

4."JumpScares" or how you wanna call them are ok but not if zombies spawn out of thin air , spawn at locations they never ever could have reached after player was or still is inside the room

5. Mining with all this gravelplusiron and this other gravelplus something resources making a mine outside of a cave makes not that much sense cause you find gravel and more gravel and everything collaps until it reach the surface . Better mix of Gravelplussometingn and normal stone would be better.

6. Zombie AI , its good you modified it so zombies are no longer absolute stupid but the current AI is not really ok for zombies i think. I can make a maze and dig a hole inside and hide there zombies will come and find me on direct way how could they know that if it comes to AI?

Same Zombie digging or jumping or using ladders. Some Zombies like Spiders ok thats why they are called spiders but the rest should not jump over stuff or use a ladder.

7 Keystones: Only 1 Keystone is not really working if you play MP and want to make larger bases or have PVP People on your server. With 1 Keystone its easy to do the math where the stone must be hidden. As i wrote earlier make it a Config Value for Serverconfig so the Players can decide how many Keystones are allowed for each Player.

And you said if you dont like it mod it. Really i would have 0 Problems with the changes if this all could be modded but that is not possible.

And that is the thing which i really hate , its not that you and the other Devs have other Ideas for this game as i have, thats ok and i do like some of the Changes. It is cause i cant change things i dont like cause the Game does not share everything or does not allow to overwrite settings .

As example Madmole possible there is a way and i dont know it.

I added a new book for test i called it Forgebook this book unlocks the Forge recipe in a new Skill for test called ForgePerk. This works but i cant set a description for this skill so if i want to add 2 or 3 recipes to it i have no chance to show the players what this skill exaclty does on lvl 1 2 3 or 4. So if there is a way to add a custom Skill or Perk Description for each level would be nice if you could tell me. Cause modding the Localization file is not really userfriendly and since server does not share it additional work to send it to people.

Why not add some sort of new Localization file for mods ? Something like LocalizationMods.txt or how you want to call it so each Modder can add a Localizaion file to his Mod ?