PC So was the point of A19 to get rid of "Realism"?

[AtomicUs5000]

That's where you're wrong, kiddo:

https://www.amigone.com/

I was born in Buffalo, NY. Amigone funeral home was always joked about. Amigone is actually a pretty typical family name in the area. I knew several Amigones, though none of them were directly related to the owners.
There was also the Dengler Funeral Home, which we joked as being the place where the suicides end up.
There is also the Bury & Roberts Funeral Home.
Dengler and Roberts teamed up to create Perna, Dengler, Roberts Funeral Home. I don't know what happened to Bury in this arrangement, but Perna I wouldn't doubt is related to my primary physician when I lived there.

 

[Scyris]

Until there is cannon in the first place how can there be retcon...?

Everything is conjecture and personal imagination until an official timeline, backstory, and game period storyline is revealed.

Sorry if I generalized your motives. It just seems like a lot of the complaints have more to do with a desire to get the best stuff sooner rather than real outrage at the type of containers being rendered. If I unfairly lumped you in there then I apologize for my assumption.

dammit...okay...

Well....stuff my pockets with singles and send me to The Booby Trap....

(I already googled it. Topeka, Kansas...who knew?)

Well what we have for canon is: there are 2 main gangs fighting over turf (sortof), the army tried to use nukes to deal with zombies (which backfired), but does explain the radiated zombies somewhat. Your char is basically in a "safespot" between nuke zones which is why there is a radiation border around every world. Government sends in air drops to show the rest of the world they are trying to help to save face, not really knowing if anyone is still alive for sure or not, unless they checked with Satelites, which while they couldn't see people they might notice some new structures and such being made which shows there is still people alive there.

Thats about all we got for canon lore so far.

 

[Roland]

But it isn't cannon yet because the game isn't released yet. All that "lore" could be placeholder stuff to keep the real story secret and fresh once they release it. And they don't have to worry about having the real story until all the elements of the game are in and solid. 

There is a distinct difference between "editing" and "reconning" and that difference is whether the changes come before or after the story is announced as finished.

 

[Onarr]

Sorry if I generalized your motives. It just seems like a lot of the complaints have more to do with a desire to get the best stuff sooner rather than real outrage at the type of containers being rendered. If I unfairly lumped you in there then I apologize for my assumption.

dammit...okay...

Roland you jump to conclusions. Saying we do not like crap in loot does not mean we want best items there. All we are saying is we dont want absolute crap there. That is not the same. We get stone tools, spears, clubs etc. We dont want that. At least I dont. You think we immediately want pistols, ak-47, shotguns and iron tools. I would be much happier if I found some duct tape, cobblestone rocks, wood, forged iron, weapon parts, gunpowder, nitre, coal, perhaps some rare steel bar etc. Something that is actually useful in early game. Safes could have 100% chance for schematic so you are actually happy to see it and dont avoid it like a plague. Loot can be made fun even without giving you the best stuff ever. Just something useful.

 

[Solomon]

You know what's illogical?  Finding guns and tools everywhere in an already scavenged post apoc world.  Realistically the population centers are going to have picked basically everything clean of most of the valuable stuff and left only low value stuff behind.  There are traders, there are supply drop planes, and there is the note we get dropped off with so we already know population centers exist.  Bandits will only add more people who are constantly looting the countryside.

This game indicates that the post apocalyptic sceniario we are in is not that old at all.

Electricity is running in multiple places, we have working computers all around us im kind of sure that the whole thing happened no more than 10 max 20 years ago.

Take a look at the houses you loot  they are mostly locked and the generic look of them is saying that people used to live there pretty much max a few years ago.

The reason why you find valuables and is because this was a flash apocalypse and not a slow one, you can see multiple newspapers explaining how it happened.

First you had a nuclear war what prompted people to leave their houses so everything with some value was closed down and they evacuated then came the flu bio-weapon what prompted the zombies so the people returning to their abadoned homes (if the house survived the bombs) now had to fight the illness.

People proceeded to fortify their houses to save themselves from the zombies only to find out that the illness is still in the air and they got zombified by the time we wake up in the middle of nowhere most humans have vanished.

Also you can clearly see the signs of places being picked near clean, take a look around your house and imagine the impending apocalypse and ask yourself "Should i take my 14 different knifes with me along with all these acid drain clearers just to make sure i might need them in the future?" then after you done with that repeat that question while crossing out all stuff you might see as valuable and you quickly see the exact same sceniario most houses look like as in 7 days to die.

 

[Onarr]

You know what's illogical?  Finding guns and tools everywhere in an already scavenged post apoc world.  Realistically the population centers are going to have picked basically everything clean of most of the valuable stuff and left only low value stuff behind.  There are traders, there are supply drop planes, and there is the note we get dropped off with so we already know population centers exist.  Bandits will only add more people who are constantly looting the countryside.

I'm sorry, but most of the places we are looting were already picked clean.  That's how an apoc works.  We got a mini taste of that in 2020.  If the boxes being "sealed" bothers you then the complaint should be to change the boxes to look as if they've already been opened before until high gamestage rewards.
 

The argument that all those boxes have already been looted is just bull@%$*#!. How do you explain that the more you loot the better rewards start appearing? The game should work backwards from your argument. You find best stuff day one and worse and worse crap as time passes.

 

[Solomon]

Roland you jump to conclusions. Saying we do not like crap in loot does not mean we want best items there. All we are saying is we dont want absolute crap there. That is not the same. We get stone tools, spears, clubs etc. We dont want that. At least I dont. You think we immediately want pistols, ak-47, shotguns and iron tools. I would be much happier if I found some duct tape, cobblestone rocks, wood, forged iron, weapon parts, gunpowder, nitre, coal, perhaps some rare steel bar etc. Something that is actually useful in early game. Safes could have 100% chance for schematic so you are actually happy to see it and dont avoid it like a plague. Loot can be made fun even without giving you the best stuff ever. Just something useful.

Literally thats it, i dont care if i no longer find tons of T1 pistols if they are replaced with actual necesseary items.

I dont need 7 of the same T6 stone axe, i need some iron, a couple pain killers, some cans of food and a magazine.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

If all the weaponry has been picked clean, where did it end up? Someone probably gathered it and probably placed it in a box somewhere. So, you find that box instead, right? How do you tell the difference between that box and the original box? Someone in the apoc turns, does their stash just disappear from the world?

 

[Guest]

It just seems like a lot of the complaints have more to do with a desire to get the best stuff sooner

From where I'm sitting it seems like you're pretty consistently misrepresenting people's arguments because it makes for easier points to attack. Also, it's funny to see that after weeks of complaints about the loot progression, the "great new looting system" is actually an obviously unfinished mechanic that's going to change for the better. Never change, TFP 

 

[Guest]

If all the weaponry has been picked clean, where did it end up? Someone probably gathered it and probably placed it in a box somewhere. So, you find that box instead, right? How do you tell the difference between that box and the original box? Someone in the apoc turns, does their stash just disappear from the world?

Plus what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to perform to explain all those crappy stone items magically turning into modern weaponry after a few weeks of zombie bashing? People sealing stone shovels into gun safes while dumping their actual pistols and schematics in toilets and garbage bins is another fun thing to try and explain.

In the end I don't really care about the rationalizations, TFP can drop acid and go nuts with it for all I care. I just want it to matter where I go, what challenges I take on and which containers I look for. Right now the main gameplay loop is so much rinse & repeat and devoid of surprises or cool challenges that I find myself bumming out on the idea of starting a new game, which used to fill me with anticipation a few alphas ago. Surely general burnout plays a role, but this game just feels way flatter than it should with all the moving parts involved. I guess I'll have to wait and see what A20 brings next year and check out some mods in the meantime.

 

[Xtrakicking]

Roland you jump to conclusions. Saying we do not like crap in loot does not mean we want best items there. All we are saying is we dont want absolute crap there. That is not the same. We get stone tools, spears, clubs etc. We dont want that. At least I dont. You think we immediately want pistols, ak-47, shotguns and iron tools. I would be much happier if I found some duct tape, cobblestone rocks, wood, forged iron, weapon parts, gunpowder, nitre, coal, perhaps some rare steel bar etc. Something that is actually useful in early game. Safes could have 100% chance for schematic so you are actually happy to see it and dont avoid it like a plague. Loot can be made fun even without giving you the best stuff ever. Just something useful.

Couldn't have said it better. Well said!

 

[diegodgo87]

One thing is for sure... me and my friends craft our weapons, at day 46 I get the first tier 5 tactical rifle when I made it at day 19, same for desert vulture and autoshotgun, and the thing is the autoshotgun found in the game are level 1. 

At A18.4 we never craft weapons, now is like mandatory... I like that, but I will remove stone weapons and tools from sealed boxes.

 

[Onarr]

Plus what kind of mental gymnastics do you have to perform to explain all those crappy stone items magically turning into modern weaponry after a few weeks of zombie bashing? People sealing stone shovels into gun safes while dumping their actual pistols and schematics in toilets and garbage bins is another fun thing to try and explain.

In the end I don't really care about the rationalizations, TFP can drop acid and go nuts with it for all I care. I just want it to matter where I go, what challenges I take on and which containers I look for. Right now the main gameplay loop is so much rinse & repeat and devoid of surprises or cool challenges that I find myself bumming out on the idea of starting a new game, which used to fill me with anticipation a few alphas ago. Surely general burnout plays a role, but this game just feels way flatter than it should with all the moving parts involved. I guess I'll have to wait and see what A20 brings next year and check out some mods in the meantime.

Honestly, nowadays I gather most fun out of the game from building my base and coming with new ways to make it awesome. This alpha I tried playing Nomad style character and I absolutely hated it. Little inventory space, tons of junk, little reason to explore... I would love if PoIs had lot of cosmetic items that you cannot craft or buy at the trader. Televisions, couches, coffee machines, paintings, sinks, bathtubs etc. 

 

[Xtrakicking]

I would love if PoIs had lot of cosmetic items that you cannot craft or buy at the trader. Televisions, couches, coffee machines, paintings, sinks, bathtubs etc.

Tbh, this alpha is the best one in regards to that. You can find PC towers near desks, audio speakers near TVs in living rooms, lootable piles of books and clothing lying around on desks or the floor, junk and chemical containers in shelves, empty battery banks in attics, movie posters in bedrooms, I've even seen installed cameras in rooms with empty cribs. It feels really nice.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

I just want it to matter where I go, what challenges I take on and which containers I look for.

Agree, but it has never been like this in 7d2d. What zombies spawn was determined by your gamestage, not by your location. The loot depended just on the type of box just with very little chances for the good stuff. You could find a lvl6 M60 on day 1 in a shotgun messiah crate in just garage. Chances were low, but still possible. People complained about the progress being way to fast.

As far as i understood TFP is working on giving locations a gamstage offset to make them more difficult and also define dropable loot per box (or at least location), not just by the type of the box.

I'm not sure why they introduced a general loot limitation in A19. Either it was much easier to implement or they plan it working together with the upcoming changes.

On day 1 with gamestage 1 you will keep finding just stone tools in a garage with gamestageoffset 0, but you will find loot equivalent to gamestage 15 in a shotgun messiah shop, because it has a gamestage offset of 15. But the Zs spawns there will also be for gamestage 15 then.

Even madmole said that recently if you don't believe me:

 

[Dracula]

There are several iterations of Buzz's Bar as well.  Here's one from Wisconsin; the bar state:

http://buzzsbarandgrill.com/menu/

I'd argue that car lots are moot as there are plenty with the same names and, especially with shady BHPH lots, they can be there today and gone tomorrow.

Al's Marine/Marina is a real place, too:

https://alsmarinecrosslake.com/

The Ostrich Hotel looks a lot different IRL and is in the UK:

https://ostrichhotel.co.uk/

 

[Palad1n]

If folks want to complain about any form of realism, then you should take a hard look at why we can break through stone walls or even hardened stone ground so easily with a stone hatchet, iron pickaxe, and steel pickaxe. 

This is a game first and foremost, yet many folks seem to want certain levels of realism for very specific things while ignoring the same argument for everything else. 

If you don't like certain features, learn to mod or work with modders to obtain the results you are after or as close to it. 

The only immersion I am really looking out for and want above all other things, is an improved AI system and a fully functional Bandit / NPC system. 

 

[Raestloz]

Sorry if I generalized your motives. It just seems like a lot of the complaints have more to do with a desire to get the best stuff sooner rather than real outrage at the type of containers being rendered. If I unfairly lumped you in there then I apologize for my assumption.

I'm not. As I've previously elaborated upon, suspension of disbelief is needed to keep you entertained, and this is one instance where that disbelief is brought back in. My real problem ~ and dare I say at least a couple others ~ is less "why does the loot suck" and more "why does the loot not make sense for the situation?". Once explanation has been made which helps make sense of the situation, the problem disappears. I mean yes based on the situation it is not unreasonable that you conflate the two reasons, because they do effect the same sort of complaint and generally can use the same arguments

 

[Roland]

From where I'm sitting it seems like you're pretty consistently misrepresenting people's arguments because it makes for easier points to attack.

Except that a) some people have already admitted that it has nothing to do with immersion, they just don’t like getting crappy stuff to start out and still nobody has complained that the steel axe is also found in sealed shipping containers and b) While I do make the observation it isn’t the crux of my counter-argument so even if that is an easier point to attack, that’s not what I’m doing. 
 

It doesn’t help that there are two concurrent threads about this topic in which one is about “realism” and the other is just complaining about how progression sucks because you get primitive stuff for the first week and all the same people are on all the same sides...lol

Also, it's funny to see that after weeks of complaints about the loot progression, the "great new looting system" is actually an obviously unfinished mechanic that's going to change for the better. Never change, TFP 

Now this is simply a case of you making an ignorant statement because you are another who really should  use the forum tools to follow the developers. This has been discussed since before A19 was released and instead of complaints about how it gets played we only had complaints about when it gets played. I’m not stating this “new system” as damage control. I’m reiterating for the umpteenth time because people don’t pay attention to what has been said. 

Roland you jump to conclusions. Saying we do not like crap in loot does not mean we want best items there. All we are saying is we dont want absolute crap there. That is not the same. We get stone tools, spears, clubs etc. We dont want that. At least I dont. You think we immediately want pistols, ak-47, shotguns and iron tools. I would be much happier if I found some duct tape, cobblestone rocks, wood, forged iron, weapon parts, gunpowder, nitre, coal, perhaps some rare steel bar etc. Something that is actually useful in early game. Safes could have 100% chance for schematic so you are actually happy to see it and dont avoid it like a plague. Loot can be made fun even without giving you the best stuff ever. Just something useful.

That is very reasonable and you are the first I’ve read who has articulated wanting other types of supplies instead of better versions of the weapons and tools showing up. I’ll leave a note to Madmole about that idea. 

 

[Dracula]

I stand by the following:  progression is great; looting is broken, crafting needs attention.  They've announced plans to rectify this.  As such, if I cannot offer concise examples of a problem or ideas as to HOW to fix it, I see no point in griping about straw man arguments like "let's change the name of the loot boxes" when, as I've seen it, "sealed" just meant "not previously looted" and I took it as a multiplayer thing to establish whether or not someone had been to a particular POI before.  That's needlessly pedantic and will get us nowhere.

I also enjoy pointing out that there are places in the game that correspond to the real world.  I wonder how the funeral home feels about the free "advertising" that they're getting in the game and if it'll be changed to "dedngon" instead in a future update.  (There is no "Dedngon Funeral Home" as of the time of this post.)