So traders gonna be pushing DLC armor? Basically in game ads.

Telltale messed up, not TFP. Unless crystal balls do really work, no one could have known that before hand. I mean they had games llike Sam and Max; Tales from the Borderlands, The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, they should have never gone bankrupt tbh.

@NiteVIper You had a month after the release to claim your cheaper version. Which was too short tbh.
I don't think anyone expected Telltale to go under, and I don't know the extent of which the legal agreement was between the two companies, but I can't imagine it would ever be a wise decision to sign off the rights of your game to another company.
This says more about you than anyone defending Joel's voice line in the game.
Yeah, it shows that I'm objective when it comes to the development of this game. Not sure whatever you were reading into it though.
 
@Arma Rex Unless you have no experience with console ports at all. Can you imagine if TFP tried that for themselves for the very first time? It was a good idea back then and they choose a solid company for it at that time. That was really bad luck.

No one is defending anything here btw, they just explained that those are voicelines that were in game long before the DLC and were never intended to be an ad. Ofc they could have removed that, but as said, why would a company not be allowed to advertise their own product? Especially one that is just a cosmetic DLC that you can simply ignore.
 
@Arma Rex Unless you have no experience with console ports at all. Can you imagine if TFP tried that for themselves for the very first time? It was a good idea back then and they choose a solid company for it at that time. That was really bad luck.

No one is defending anything here btw, they just explained that those are voicelines that were in game long before the DLC and were never intended to be an ad. Ofc they could have removed that, but as said, why would a company not be allowed to advertise their own product? Especially one that is just a cosmetic DLC that you can simply ignore.
When the console version released there were already obvious signs of trouble at Telltale. Don't know when the deal was struck though, maybe it looked a lot better then.
 
Not to mention the fact that the armor sets that are being sold as DLC were originally regular sets of armor that had yet to be added to the game. There are some fans in this forum that bend over backwards to justify any and every faulty move by TFP. It's one thing to enjoy the game and support the developers, but supporting them doesn't mean brushing off any bad addition or business move they made, such as not giving free copies of the console edition to legacy 7DTD console owners.

Ok, wouldn't this fact very much hint at the possibility that the voice lines were produced before that reassignement of the armor and nobody noticed at that time that a voice line isn't accurate anymore? Doesn't that sound more likely than such a crude attempt of guerilla marketing that 9 out of 10 players will not even notice?
 
I would really like to know if the people that are mad about that one voice line also get mad at their ISP when they try to sell you something extra. Or if they yell at cashiers at the supermarket when there is an ad in the store for a product that is only available for a limited time. Both totally normal and happens all the time.
 
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I would really like to know if the people that are mad about that one voice line also get mad at their ISP when they try to sell you something extra. Or if they yell at cashiers at the supermarket when there is an ad in the store for a product that this only available for a limited time. Both totally normal and happens all the time.

There is a definite line in games that should not be crossed. If there is advertisement in the game, even for a DLC or something else the company sells then that crosses the line.

Though there are cases where this may be acceptable, for example as a fan service. Some games make crossover events where characters or items from some other game get included. For example Monster Train 2 which added an encounter with Balatro-themed artifacts. If it isn't overdone I can accept and even appreciate that.
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No one is defending anything here btw, they just explained that those are voicelines that were in game long before the DLC and were never intended to be an ad. Ofc they could have removed that, but as said, why would a company not be allowed to advertise their own product? Especially one that is just a cosmetic DLC that you can simply ignore.

Is "they" TFP? Could you provide a link, didn't see any comment from them yet
 
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@meganoth Yeah sure ads can always be overdone. Not only in games. I really don´t see any difference between a game developer studio and any other company. Why would you treat them differently?

I am talking about the people in this thread as Arma Rex targeted them in his post earlier.
 
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Defending such practices is what allows it to happen to begin with. This isn't some free mobile game. Why would I want ads in a game I paid full price for?

That being said I don't think TFP intended the line as such.
Neither do I considering the mention of the other, non-DLC sets. We all expected the sets shown off in the dev stream and otherwise to be in the base game. Three of them weren't, but rather held back for "cosmetic DLC." I'm 100% positive TFP knew it would be more than just a little controversial to sell such for an online game that has otherwise done everything right until 1.0 -- "make a product, sell the product," hosted on community run servers as in the golden days of gaming, which is actually as recent as the turn of the century, etc;. -- and have no idea how much the new console deal had to do with it, if anything. I'm just as certain they'll ignore the controversy that has sprung in the community over it because it's become accepted practice both in the industry and, obviously, among the player community. That's what normalizing means. The practice has been normalized to the point few ever question it anymore. So, I'll just consider it a sign of somewhat good, but failing health that many in this community still do as some are obviously not seeing beyond Joel's voice lines. The conversation has shifted toward and away from industry practices for obvious reasons.

Well without any microtransactions they couldn´t provide the servers at least not for very long, Fallout76 is MP online only.

The "live service" model, adopted from the "F2P" mobile space, proved extraordinarily financially successful for a few traditional gaming companies, so the pressure was on studios everywhere to produce one whether they had any experience doing so or not. BGS and Arkane, for example, had no in-house experience with that and were ordered to do it themselves anyway. Ergo, the dumpster fires of FO76, Redfall, et al. as well as extraordinary turmoil within those companies. Any "redemption" of games you see in the triple A space is the result of those companies recruiting outside assistance from "monetization experts" to try and salvage the model for them. I hear Todd Howard himself plans on retiring soon.

Gee, I wonder why.

But it gets even worse. An Ubisoft executive has said players are just going to have to get comfortable with the idea of not owning the games they buy. "We're seeing expansion on console as the likes of PlayStation and Xbox bring new people in. On PC, from a Ubisoft standpoint, it's already been great, but we are looking to reach out more on PC, so we see opportunity there." Uh-oh. (I always say, "uh-oh," when a CEO "sees opportunity.") Ergo, Steam's recent clarification that no one owns the games they've bought on the platform over the years, etc. and so forth and so on. All corporate entities in the triple A space are following suit, even claiming players want to "live in [our] games" (Emil Pagliarulo), etc. and so on.

It's obvious the trend toward subscription services in gaming and streaming TV are parallel, overlapping avenues of corporate overreach/greed and, given the tech bros are as thick as thieves, even Zuckerburg's' notion of a "metaverse" has a made its way into the gaming space with gaming industry executives announcing the death of single player games, claiming the future is always online games and otherwise.

They seriously want us to live, work, shop for "virtual" goods and everything else online. It's insane...and unconscious to us for the most part.

Given there's little to nothing we can do about those trends, atm, I'd honestly be a little more concerned with the tech bros' "network state" plans and the "Dark Enlightement" movement among them. You see, they can't get to Mars, atm, so they're trying to establish their corporate network states here on Earth and, unbelievably, even having a moderate degree of success. I imagine their dreams of taking over existing states, e.g. the US, won't be quite as successful, but you never know.
 
@InfiniteWarrior So how is a game like FO76 supposed to run then? Monthly subscription for a Bugthesda game? No thanks. I prefer having it like it is. Or you have any other idea how to finance the servers? Because that is needed, no matter how much money they make on top of that. Unless you want to suggest that this kind of games shouldn´t exist at all.
 
No one is defending anything here btw, they just explained that those are voicelines that were in game long before the DLC and were never intended to be an ad. Ofc they could have removed that, but as said, why would a company not be allowed to advertise their own product? Especially one that is just a cosmetic DLC that you can simply ignore.

That voiceline wasn't in 1.1, so it was added at some point after they said there would be cosmetic DLCs, and after they decided not to include those armor sets in the base game. So, I'm thinking it was added with the DLC in mind. Not that it bothers me much, I don't pay attention to that used car salesman.
 
So how is a game like FO76 supposed to run then?
I'm of the mind Bethesda execs themselves knew very well a "live service" Fallout game would be exceptionally controversial, especially among those of us who grokked the dark humor and cultural critique that characterized the original. I like to imagine that's why they steadfastly resisted producing an online Fallout game for so long and question the notion that the decision to do so was theirs alone considering Zenimax was gearing up for its sale to Microsoft around the same time it went into development. I can just imagine the pressure applied to BGS by both Zenimax and Bethesda Softworks to monetize everything in the Bethesda back catalog that could possibly be monetized to make the deal look as sweet as possible to Microsoft. Ergo, I don't blame BGS, the studio, for a blessed thing. Those guys are being crushed under the weight of higher ups and it shows with a good many veterans choosing to strike out on their own and remaining employees overwhelmingly approving unionization.

I don't support the "live service" model at all. As I've said, I played 76 only to try and ascertain what my sister was seeing it. My opinion of it is that, underlying the industry rot, is miles upon in-game miles of extraordinary potential that will never be realized.
 
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I don't know what ad or line of dialogue you are talking about, I don't know which trader or how to listen to it, maybe I missed it, but that said, seeing people willing to have ads in their games that they have PAID for and are not FREE, leaves me a bit cold, especially if they are within the game itself not from the menu or steam or whatever.
 
I don't know what ad or line of dialogue you are talking about, I don't know which trader or how to listen to it, maybe I missed it, but that said, seeing people willing to have ads in their games that they have PAID for and are not FREE, leaves me a bit cold, especially if they are within the game itself not from the menu or steam or whatever.

Trader Joel says "Glad to see you this morning. Are you the miner type, or maybe you want to see our hoarder outfit? Or my personal favorite, the wasteland assassin outfit."
 
@meganoth Yeah sure ads can always be overdone. Not only in games. I really don´t see any difference between a game developer studio and any other company. Why would you treat them differently?

Is it really so different with other companies? Would you buy a washing machine that showed commercials on it display from time to time? When I buy a product I usually want it advertisement-free, except when the payment IS seeing the adverts. Simple rule really. So, if I buy a DVD of a movie I expect at least the movie to be in one piece without advertisement (and previews of other movies before it are in a grey area as long as they are BEFORE it). If I watch it on TV for free then that is different.

Would you buy a game where you are subjected to commercials every hour of playtime? Would it make a difference if it were only every 4 hours?

Instead of having to find some squishy limit that would be different for every user and would constantly be increased by companies like EA there is a simple natural boundary that game developers still seem to honor, no advertisements in games. Notable exception seem to be racing and sports games where product placement seems rampant and is explained away by perimeter advertising being realistic.
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Trader Joel says "Glad to see you this morning. Are you the miner type, or maybe you want to see our hoarder outfit? Or my personal favorite, the wasteland assassin outfit."
Which one is the DLC outfit?
 
It doesn't seem like that big of a deal, and I hate commercials.
That's because it absolutely isn't. Woodle got bent out of shape when he heard it and went on a rant, and someone brought that here. I love Woodle, he's one of my favorite 7 Days creators, but I simply don't get the issue here. It's not like when Joel says that line it automatically brings you to your game store of choice and adds them to your cart and takes you all the way to the Checkout button, and then doesn't let you exit unless you buy. Which is what I would expect to be happening given most of the responses here.
 
It is still only a $45 game (cheaper if you wait for any sales out there or even more if you bought it during EA). The cosmetic armor bundles are not required at all to play this game, they provide 0 stat bonuses unlike the armor you get in-game for free.

Does Joel tell the player to click on any links to get the armor? No he doesn't. Does he flash up a QR code for the survivor to scan in to take them to the store to get the armor? No he doesn't. Does he mention the armor set which might make the player curious and they explore on their own the DLC set and decide on their own if they want to purchase it or not? Yes he does.
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This says more about you than anyone defending Joel's voice line in the game.
They already took care of that when they made sure everyone will hit the DLC button due to muscle memory when trying to exit the game.
Don't give them ideas about the QR code :P
 
I would really like to know if the people that are mad about that one voice line also get mad at their ISP when they try to sell you something extra. Or if they yell at cashiers at the supermarket when there is an ad in the store for a product that is only available for a limited time. Both totally normal and happens all the time.
The ones that makes my blood boil is the flight attendants pushing their crappy skymiles credit cards. Useless crap. Pro-tip to frequent travelers, you're far better off with Hilton or Marriot points, you can actually get free stays without meeting umpteen terms and conditions.
 
That's because it absolutely isn't. Woodle got bent out of shape when he heard it and went on a rant, and someone brought that here. I love Woodle, he's one of my favorite 7 Days creators, but I simply don't get the issue here. It's not like when Joel says that line it automatically brings you to your game store of choice and adds them to your cart and takes you all the way to the Checkout button, and then doesn't let you exit unless you buy. Which is what I would expect to be happening given most of the responses here.
I didn't even know about this line of dialogue because I mostly live in the green forest, and I haven't seen that video or anything, I'm against in-game ads and that kind of recent practices, especially if the game isn't free, but that dialogue doesn't seem that big of a deal to me. I see it more as a reference to the armor than to the dlc, of course everyone can interpret it differently.
 
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