So far 2.0 is bad

[ProlificPoultry]

How much sta you regen in a 5 sec gap? How is the 5 secs relevant to my point?

Post automatically merged: Jul 15, 2025

How much sta you regen in a 5 sec gap? How is the 5 secs relevant to my point?

What if your point anyways about your “five second rule?” My point was you’d run out of stamina trying to kill a rad biker after a few swings because the damage alone was not the only factor determining its viability. It has a lower dps than the steel club and it lacked sustained damage in extended fights. That was my point

 

[theFlu]

What if your point anyways about your “five second rule?”

That's the somewhat obscure pain mechanic that the zeds have. It boils down to: if you hit a zed faster than 1/5 (or 1/4 secs, but 5ish to be safe) the zed gets to hit you back. If slower than that, the pain mechanic interrupts their attack. Whether there's 1 zed or 50 in the cluster.

So, if you hit too often, you get beaten. Granted, your example of stun baton has great CC, but it wasn't reliable before the current INT mastery. Sledge causing pain was 100% reliable.

In a group fight, you can't really keep track of who's gotten hit lately, so you won't hit more than once per five. At that point, literally nothing else matters than damage per swing. Dismemberment does confuse the calculation a little, but since it can't be made reliable, it's really only a buff to any playstyle. Even there though, with one swing every 5, sledge had the best decap already.

Is that the Only way to play the harder settings? No, but it's what made the sledge the Best. Now it's not even a question, double XP, infinite stamina, the OP cripple every 10 secs. How easy do you want the game to become?

 

[hampy_251]

I've never played previous versions and 2.0 on PS5 is first for me.
That being said, I'm having a blast and binged 60 hours with my trusty hunting knife and now lvl 6 machete.
I will need to try the sledge now though... Might have to respec first.

 

[BFT2020]

Well, since That was my point, what do I do with the rest..?

I was replying to the comment about decap chance, not damage per swing. I plan on looking at that also as I am interested in seeing what the numbers say (and being an engineer, already a math geek).

 

[theFlu]

I was replying to the comment about decap chance, not damage per swing.

Nothing wrong in that, only it fueled the confusion as I was speaking of highest per swing decap chance. If you don't take damage into account, you get misleading results - the chance per hit is modified by DMG / HP (I'm guessing roughly multiplicatively, but I don't know the exact implementation).

 

[ProlificPoultry]

That's the somewhat obscure pain mechanic that the zeds have. It boils down to: if you hit a zed faster than 1/5 (or 1/4 secs, but 5ish to be safe) the zed gets to hit you back. If slower than that, the pain mechanic interrupts their attack. Whether there's 1 zed or 50 in the cluster.

So, if you hit too often, you get beaten. Granted, your example of stun baton has great CC, but it wasn't reliable before the current INT mastery. Sledge causing pain was 100% reliable.

In a group fight, you can't really keep track of who's gotten hit lately, so you won't hit more than once per five. At that point, literally nothing else matters than damage per swing. Dismemberment does confuse the calculation a little, but since it can't be made reliable, it's really only a buff to any playstyle. Even there though, with one swing every 5, sledge had the best decap already.

Is that the Only way to play the harder settings? No, but it's what made the sledge the Best. Now it's not even a question, double XP, infinite stamina, the OP cripple every 10 secs. How easy do you want the game to become?

Have you played with the stun baton before? Like during 1.0? How exactly was a 50 percent chance to instantly charge the stun baton unreliable crowd control? Even with out the repulsor which would then just ragdoll an entire group of zombies you could use the nerd tats and keep power attacking to get the shock aoe and keep them in place.

I’m going to say it you are so wrong here. 100 percent pain? For what the stagger? On one target vs a 50 percent chance with power attacks / 25 percent chance on regular attacks to ragdoll a group of zombies with the stun baton? Again, have you ever touched the stun baton before?

It wasn’t just reliable, it is the melee weapon. Period. It does whatever you need to.

And you realize the club got the same dismember strength mastery perk? Except it swings faster and has better single target dps than the sledge but okay if you want to go “you can’t keep track of who got hit lately” which I know is essentially part of tackling big groups so you can be selective about your kills but whatever then again, I point you to the club that has got the same dismember perk, the stun baton has an increased dismemberment perk and a 10 percent chance to just instantly kill anything regardless of where you aim, the machete has the highest dismember chance, and the knuckles have the increased dismemberment chance from that bar brawling book on top of the whole unkillable brawler build.

You discounting the stun baton or even the other melees for that matter, (including the spear which has a 100 percent chance to cripple enemies slowing them, and being able to pierce enemies essentially letting you take any size fight you want as long as you have wall next to you which like you’re never not going to have one when it matters) is just so disingenuous.

Like everything is so unreliable that the sledge has the pain tolerance over everything else (spear’s 100 percent chance to cripple and it pierces so you can cripple at least 2 zombies at once, and the stun batons 1 in 2 chance to charge as well as letting you know when it’s charged)

The only things you have convinced me of are A. you’re just a hater and B. you either haven’t used any of the other melee weapons or are willfully ignoring their playstyles and perks/ bonuses. To say it’s overpowered is just again, so disingenuous to the other melees it’s unreal. I’m also convinced you don’t know what overpowered is.

The only thing I will concede is the double xp which is really strong but that is just a perk of going sledgehammers.

 

[theFlu]

Again, have you ever touched the stun baton before?

I've used it; I never claimed it was "bad"? Why are you being so hostile? I've merely explained to you what most people mean by the greatness of the sledge, you're taking it personally like I'm eating your lunch. In comparison, the sledge / 5sec fight style was more reliable.

Reliable, 50% chance of getting stunned yourself doesn't really cut it if you're doing no-hit jousting. Zapping the zeds makes them pain-immune for about 15 secs, which is just time wasted. You can win fights, but reliable means reliable. Nothing more. Chill

Except it swings faster

For the specific way of fighting, that is still just a problem. Yes, you can fight with a club. Yes, it's good. Sledge was better, and is, better. In that case. The case where you want to get reliable.

A. you’re just a hater and B. you either haven’t used any of the other melee weapons or are willfully ignoring their playstyles and perks/ bonuses.

A. What exactly am I hating on? And how?
B. My go-to melee weapon is the machete, I consider it the weakest of the bunch, but I love the deagle/smg run-around. I usually play warrior, because I'm looking to chill, not stress about frame perfect timing on Big Hits, and I cba cheesing every fight to avoid that.

Again, I have only explained to you "why the sledge is considered the best at the high difficulties". Have a steak, you're not you when you're hungry.

 

[ProlificPoultry]

I've used it; I never claimed it was "bad"? Why are you being so hostile? I've merely explained to you what most people mean by the greatness of the sledge, you're taking it personally like I'm eating your lunch. In comparison, the sledge / 5sec fight style was more reliable.

Reliable, 50% chance of getting stunned yourself doesn't really cut it if you're doing no-hit jousting. Zapping the zeds makes them pain-immune for about 15 secs, which is just time wasted. You can win fights, but reliable means reliable. Nothing more. Chill


For the specific way of fighting, that is still just a problem. Yes, you can fight with a club. Yes, it's good. Sledge was better, and is, better. In that case. The case where you want to get reliable.


A. What exactly am I hating on? And how?
B. My go-to melee weapon is the machete, I consider it the weakest of the bunch, but I love the deagle/smg run-around. I usually play warrior, because I'm looking to chill, not stress about frame perfect timing on Big Hits, and I cba cheesing every fight to avoid that.

Again, I have only explained to you "why the sledge is considered the best at the high difficulties". Have a steak, you're not you when you're hungry.

Oh my gosh I never said you said it was bad, don’t you put words in my mouth. I said you’re disregarding the strengths of the other weapons.


And if you’ve used the stun baton like really used it you would know that A. It’s got the pain tolerance/ stagger before they can hit you just like every single other melee to where a 1 and 2 chance is very reliable and unless you’re standing perfectly still and swinging, you can still swing and retreat and then swing again just like you would with any other melee to not get hit and get that charge.

Then there’s B. The fact that you can pre charge the stun baton, or carry two of them on you (see JaWoodle's batons only series) making it a 100 percent chance for crowd control aoe whenever you need it. And again it literally tells you with a visual indicator that its charged.

Oh and guess what? The stun baton charges anyways in a set amount of swings too. And it tells you that too with a sound cue. But no no, that’s unreliable. Being able to play around when you know the minimum and maximum swings it will take to charge is very unreliable.

And them being pain immune for 15 seconds? So what? Are you making soup while they’re getting shocked? No you are hitting them again to keep them shocked and rolling that 10 percent instant kill or decap which you can get with regular attacks too and never run out of stamina. And this was pre 2.0.

And your complaining about the sledgehammer when it was not the best even on insane pre 2.0 because of its lack of sustainability, and your complaining about it now when it’s finally got its draws like any sidegrade has got me thinking you’re just hating on it.

I’ve explained to you why the other weapons are just as strong as the sledgehammer, or stronger but all you’ve convinced me of is maybe you’re not a hater. Maybe I got it wrong. I think you’re just bad or haven’t used the other melees to the best of their potential and have chosen the worst hill to die on as evidence for how strong it was. I can’t even with you anymore, like genuinely trying to argue with you when you have some of the worst takes I’ve ever seen is just absurd. I’d have more respect for you if you said “okay maybe I don’t know how good the other melee weapons are” or had rebuttals that are not completely nonsensical or seemingly willfully ignorant. But no you think the sledge has just got it made over the other melees… frickin’ Cry some more why don’t you?

Oh and I know you can play at lower difficulties but why would you not measure the balance of something based on when the skill ceiling is at its highest? Because then you can see where its real strengths are and where it struggles. Especially in this game where you can adjust the difficulty.

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 9:39 AM

Oh my gosh I never said you said it was bad, don’t you put words in my mouth. I said you’re disregarding the strengths of the other weapons.


And if you’ve used the stun baton like really used it you would know that A. It’s got the pain tolerance/ stagger before they can hit you just like every single other melee to where a 1 and 2 chance is very reliable and unless you’re standing perfectly still and swinging, you can still swing and retreat and then swing again just like you would with any other melee to not get hit and get that charge.

Then there’s B. The fact that you can pre charge the stun baton, or carry two of them on you (see JaWoodle's batons only series) making it a 100 percent chance for crowd control aoe whenever you need it. And again it literally tells you with a visual indicator that its charged.

Oh and guess what? The stun baton charges anyways in a set amount of swings too. And it tells you that too with a sound cue. But no no, that’s unreliable. Being able to play around when you know the minimum and maximum swings it will take to charge is very unreliable.

And them being pain immune for 15 seconds? So what? Are you making soup while they’re getting shocked? No you are hitting them again to keep them shocked and rolling that 10 percent instant kill or decap which you can get with regular attacks too and never run out of stamina. And this was pre 2.0.

And your complaining about the sledgehammer when it was not the best even on insane pre 2.0 because of its lack of sustainability, and your complaining about it now when it’s finally got its draws like any sidegrade has got me thinking you’re just hating on it.

I’ve explained to you why the other weapons are just as strong as the sledgehammer, or stronger but all you’ve convinced me of is maybe you’re not a hater. Maybe I got it wrong. I think you’re just bad or haven’t used the other melees to the best of their potential and have chosen the worst hill to die on as evidence for how strong it was. I can’t even with you anymore, like genuinely trying to argue with you when you have some of the worst takes I’ve ever seen is just absurd. I’d have more respect for you if you said “okay maybe I don’t know how good the other melee weapons are” or had rebuttals that are not completely nonsensical or seemingly willfully ignorant. But no you think the sledge has just got it made over the other melees… frickin’ Cry some more why don’t you?

Oh and I know you can play at lower difficulties but why would you not measure the balance of something based on when the skill ceiling is at its highest? Because then you can see where its real strengths are and where it struggles. Especially in this game where you can adjust the difficulty.

This was fun though. I like seeing people’s absolutely trash takes

 

[theFlu]

I said you’re disregarding the strengths of the other weapons.

Hence the "scare quotes" around bad. I never said anything about the other weapons until you started tossing that "do you even lift bro"-shade at me ...

Again, I've merely described what players better than me do with a sledge, and why. I can replicate it, but I don't find it entertaining myself. But it is why the sledge is considered the best.

Why does That make you so defensive? I also might have to point out that you were arguing with Papa when I offered the first try at an explanation; he may be a tad more obnoxious than me at times. I do have my moments, but at least don't confuse us.

I like seeing people’s absolutely trash takes

Likewise

 

[BFT2020]

So I decided not to use math and just have fun. I loaded up a test world, put on god mode, gave me 1 million XP and then perked into both the machete and sledgehammer perks. Also grabbed a Q6 Machete and Steel sledgehammer from CM along with the sledge series of books.

Settings are Adventurer (so 100% damage = 100% damage). Spawned in 25 demolitions.

Steel Sledgehammer - 34 power attacks aimed for the head to clear them up. A lot of decaps, but even the non-decaps took a ton of damage off of them.

Machete - 101 power attacks aimed for the head to clear them up, but one of the last 2 I accidently hit his button and he took out the last one in the explosion. I didn't feel like I got as many decaps as I did with the sledge.

Hands down, sledgehammer wins by a large margin. In an open field situation, you are going to take down the zombies a lot faster than the machete (and I use knives 95% of the time I play).

Machete will still shine if you perk out in hidden strike and the night stalker books, but that will only be with stealth attacks and night attacks.

 

[Batman]

We lost temperature, we also had the removal of being wet, over heat and cold. So weather effects are gone despite this being a weather update.

The storm sucks. Its nothing more than a time sink and if you dare go out it causes a decent amount of damage to your character along with messing up your vehicles steering.

Biome progression while not horrible it is badly implemented. Magic potions and magic accessories? You really couldnt build upon the trader progression system that already sends you into new biomes by having them give you mods or armor to craft to survive in the next biome or even send you to a PoI to get items that will serve the same purpose?

Loot caps being so low has ruined looting and while I enjoy how important crafting is crafting is now basically the only way to make progress for gear outside of the usual RNG luck at the traders. This definitely needs to be balanced out somehow.

Plague spitter had made the desert biome insufferable with how fast those bug that you cant outrun them on vehicles so anytime you pass a plague spitter you have no choice but to fight them.

Its kinda ridiculous that this is what we got after 1 year. Also if the suggestion is to turn off biome progression and weather then that basically tells me is remove 80% of the 2.0 content so it can be more enjoyable. Telling someone to remove so much content from a major update shows how bad of a job was done implementing those changes were.

Just eat lots of hobo stew to survive the storm.

 

[theFlu]

34 power attacks aimed for the head to clear them up. A lot of decaps

34 hits, for 25 zeds. Some of them took 1 (decap), some of them took 2 - that would be 9 "extra" hits , as in 9 zeds that took 2? 16 decaps out of 25 sounds like a lot, but maybe it was the lower difficulties

Or were you just outright 100%HPing some of them, due to the HP variance?

 

[Batman]

It's uninspiring, pretty lazy checklist game play, but it's not awful. The problem with this is it was an opportunity to add new gameplay. They did not. It's just a checklist of things to do that we could already do.

The weather system is pretty unimpactful too. It can be negated by just using a health pack or two. I think a weather system should introduce different game play opportunities. This did not.

The best things about this update were the skill redesign, which I think has been pretty good, and the new zombie types. I don't think orange and blue zombies add much though. Again, this was an opportunity to add new game play (give them unique abilities that are randomised and require specific strategies to defeat).

They do not. They're just differentiated by their stats. You can treat them exactly the same way as green.

It was fun enough to play through again. But very little was changed in terms of new game play.

 

[LittleNightma]

If it means anything the temperature system is coming back so it should work quite well alongside storms.

 

[Treb]

They did add the spitter and the frostclaw that have new abilities.

 

[Rahfta]

Loot caps being so low has ruined looting and while I enjoy how important crafting is crafting is now basically the only way to make progress for gear outside of the usual RNG luck at the traders. This definitely needs to be balanced

You just need to go intelect max better barter and daring adventure. 2 points in vehicles. Scrap cars for parts for mini bike handle bars and sell them to traders for infinite dukes. I'm rocking an auto shotgun 5 about halfway thru the burnt biom. Once you get what you want buy a few forgetting elixir and respec to the build you want to play.

 

[theFlu]

I loaded up a test world, put on god mode, gave me 1 million XP and then perked into both the machete and sledgehammer perks. Also grabbed a Q6 Machete and Steel sledgehammer from CM along with the sledge series of books.

I tried replicating this, AI off .. something weird going on with my test, but can't unread the books.

I specced 10/10 Str, and maxed the sledge skills.
A demo would take about 4 hits to die (to a decap). I only killed a few, but I don't think I should've been that unlucky.
I added the armor reduction book, which essentially increased damage from 40% to 70% (the armor reduction is actually multiplicative this time), less than double, but now almost every swing is a decap. It shouldn't rise by That much, feels too strong, somehow. Might have to reset the character, but .. not right now.

Also:

Settings are Adventurer (so 100% damage = 100% damage).

Adventurer is the default setting, but the "damage = tooltip damage" is still Nomad.

 

[ilexev]

Je suis globalement d'accord avec l'auteur. Une mise à jour potentiellement intéressante, ruinée par une mauvaise décision.

Retravailler la progression du biome.

Vous pouvez le faire à travers des quêtes et même proposer un curseur pour déterminer la vitesse à laquelle vous pouvez recevoir la quête. Par exemple, 0/3/5/9/12/20. Ainsi, vous pouvez progresser à votre rythme. Cela peut varier d'un joueur à l'autre, mais dans les jeux de rôle traditionnels, vous passez un certain temps dans une zone avant de progresser.

De plus, le système de badges est une très mauvaise idée. Une recette de bricolage pour fabriquer un appareil improvisé semble être une meilleure idée. L'idée qu'un smoothie soit censé aider jusqu'à la cueillette de dix champignons est absurde. Même l'idée d'acclimatation est un peu exagérée lorsqu'il s'agit d'une intoxication aux radiations. Ce n'est pas comme si vivre dans la neige vous empêchait de mourir de froid parce que vous êtes né et avez grandi en Alaska.

Enfin, je ne pense pas qu'il faille punir les joueurs qui construisent des bases dans des zones qui leur plaisent esthétiquement. Une fois le badge de niveau supérieur obtenu, le ou les biomes précédents devraient automatiquement correspondre au niveau de votre biome actuel. Autrement dit, si je progresse vers les Terres désolées et que je n'aime pas y vivre (spoiler : je n'aime pas, c'est déprimant et laid), une fois le badge des Terres désolées obtenu, je peux faire en sorte que le niveau de butin des biomes Forêt, Désert, Neige et Forêt brûlée corresponde à celui des Terres désolées. J'ai passé du temps à progresser, maintenant, je peux jouer comme je veux.

Donc en résumé :
1) Changez le système de progression de sa terrible implémentation à un système de quête comme celui où vous obtenez un vélo.
2) Supprimez les badges au profit d'objets plus simples, comme des équipements pratiques. Vous pouvez même les placer dans le même emplacement.
3) Amenez la progression du butin en tandem avec votre badge actuel pour tous les biomes afin de ne pas être coincé en fin de partie uniquement dans le Wasteland.

Espérons qu'il y aura suffisamment de résistance pour faire comprendre aux développeurs que des améliorations sont nécessaires. Il n'est pas nécessaire de le supprimer, mais simplement de l'ajuster, comme toutes leurs nouvelles implémentations l'ont fait par le passé.

J'espère vraiment qu'ils vont écouter ta critique et peaufiner leur mise a jour avec les feedbacks de la communauté, j'adore les studios comme ça, je leur achèterai volontiers des trucs si c'était possible, même un don mensuel pour les soutenir tellement c'est rare et adorable les studios comme ça

 

[hampy_251]

Won my first horde today! Hooray
Lvl 6 Raider armor and lvl 6 machete.