Back in A20 they told us that mods at some point in the future would only load from appdata/... and that <gamefolder>/Mod could no longer be used. Now we have a Mods folder in the game folder by default with the 0_TFP_Harmony mod. So, will this folder continue to work for user mods in the future, or only for TFP mods? If so, won't this be confusing for the players?
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So, about that Harmony mod and the 'new mod folder location'
- Thread starter seven
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tower has vanished
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+1
I also asked this in the Dev Diary. They finally answered when someone else asked something similar, but they never really answered the question. Didn't say anything about whether "Mods" in the game folder would continue to work for player mods, or if this won't be confusing to players. Just we should use the new location.
Riamus
Well-known member
If you really want the mods installed in the game folder, you can always set the user data folder to point to that location. That should always work even if the game stops looking there by default. However, it isn't the recommended location and shouldn't be referenced when telling people where to place mods. If people want to use it, that is fine, but that shouldn't be the advice given, imo.
I agree. If I make suggestions to people I usually say to use the -UserDataFolder option to move mods and saves elsewhere. Personally I think appdata is a poor choice since it's hidden by default and many people don't know how to find it. I just think having that Mods folder in the game folder is going to confuse people. Common advice when people have bugs is "clean out your mods folder" of any old mods, and people are deleting the TFP mod. Why put it in a Mods folder? They could have put it elsewhere, and not added a Mods folder.
Riamus
Well-known member
Yeah, that is another issue if cleaning out mods, especially if placing everything in the game folder. I agree that appdata is a horrible place to use. The better way would be to tell someone someplace like Documents\Saved Games\7Days2Die\Mods (the saved games part could be replaced with saves or games or removed entirely). But most people know where their documents folder is, compared to where appdata is.
One reason for that: appdata is the microsoft mandated official place to store configuration and saves for programs. The name speaks for itself, really. Other operating systems have similar schemes which mandate specific locations for specific data. Two reasons among many being easier manageabke backup and the ability to use specific storage options or special handling by the operating system for specific data.
When every program stores stuff whereever it pleases BAD things happen. Microsoft or specifically the users of old windows versions learned that the hard way. I don't think "Documents" should be filled with program data, it is where the user tries to store his documents and most people will have a hard time even managing their own stuff in there.
So the sad news is: Players who want to mod need the knowledge where and how to access the location where to put their mods and there exists old and wrong information on the net. Yeah, can lead to confusion, can't be avoided really.
My guess is that the Mods folder inside the game folder will always work for Mods, but there are other problems that could turn up. Like any of the operating systems used for 7days could police those folders and for example disable the whole program start. That is fine if you know what you are doing, you'll manage. But seriously, if some noob asks you where to put a mod you give out the new location or you are responsible for all the confusion and trouble following.
It is like repairing your computer or worse a power supply. If you know what you are doing, go ahead. But please leave that sticker on that promises death and small pox if anyone even just opens that case
When every program stores stuff whereever it pleases BAD things happen. Microsoft or specifically the users of old windows versions learned that the hard way. I don't think "Documents" should be filled with program data, it is where the user tries to store his documents and most people will have a hard time even managing their own stuff in there.
So the sad news is: Players who want to mod need the knowledge where and how to access the location where to put their mods and there exists old and wrong information on the net. Yeah, can lead to confusion, can't be avoided really.
My guess is that the Mods folder inside the game folder will always work for Mods, but there are other problems that could turn up. Like any of the operating systems used for 7days could police those folders and for example disable the whole program start. That is fine if you know what you are doing, you'll manage. But seriously, if some noob asks you where to put a mod you give out the new location or you are responsible for all the confusion and trouble following.
It is like repairing your computer or worse a power supply. If you know what you are doing, go ahead. But please leave that sticker on that promises death and small pox if anyone even just opens that case
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Well, I don't know how much of a mandate that is. I have microsoft games that save to ...\Users\<username>\Saved Games or deep inside the Steam client folder under Programs (x86) or other places. Admittedly none of those are purchased from the microsoft store which apparently does things differently. I agree that configuration data should go in appdata, but TFP dumps much of that in the registry.
I assume registry is as "legal" or "acceptable" as appdata since its primary use is configuration settings after all.
It is perfectly possible to not follow the rules. The coersion is "soft". For example if Microsoft demands it for anything they add to the Store or the xbox, you are free to publish some software you develop elsewhere and do it differently. But tools of the operating system (probably?), virus scanners, or policies once you do need to get on the Store will put obstacles in your path and the easy way will be to start development already with the correct rules.
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Riamus
Well-known member
I would argue that there is a difference between saves and mods from configuration data from the game itself. Anything user-created (that includes saves even though they are technically created by the game) should not be in appdata, imo. But as with so much in Windows, it's not a clearly defined thing and apps can do whatever they want. Hiding something the user will want to access in a hidden folder (hidden by default) is bad practice.One reason for that: appdata is the microsoft mandated official place to store configuration and saves for programs. The name speaks for itself, really. Other operating systems have similar schemes which mandate specific locations for specific data. Two reasons among many being easier manageabke backup and the ability to use specific storage options or special handling by the operating system for specific data.
When every program stores stuff whereever it pleases BAD things happen. Microsoft or specifically the users of old windows versions learned that the hard way. I don't think "Documents" should be filled with program data, it is where the user tries to store his documents and most people will have a hard time even managing their own stuff in there.
So the sad news is: Players who want to mod need the knowledge where and how to access the location where to put their mods and there exists old and wrong information on the net. Yeah, can lead to confusion, can't be avoided really.
My guess is that the Mods folder inside the game folder will always work for Mods, but there are other problems that could turn up. Like any of the operating systems used for 7days could police those folders and for example disable the whole program start. That is fine if you know what you are doing, you'll manage. But seriously, if some noob asks you where to put a mod you give out the new location or you are responsible for all the confusion and trouble following.
It is like repairing your computer or worse a power supply. If you know what you are doing, go ahead. But please leave that sticker on that promises death and small pox if anyone even just opens that case
Official think is probably that the normal user will never need to access his save. The only reason would be backup and I would assume all backup software will by default back up the home dir including appdata. And by and large I would agree. People who can do anything more with saves than backing them up with a program also have no problem with a hidden dir.
I agree though that mods are at a minimum something between program and "user-generated data/addon". I think it is correct to NOT put them into the program folder which is usually writable only to admin/root. Mods are added and removed so often by players that they belong somewhere in the user-writable home-dir. As such making the location adjustable is the right thing to do and the default is debatable.
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