Windows Siphoning Strikes Clarification

[Sajakain]

I'm currently 5/5 talented into Siphoning Strikes under the Fortitude tree: "The battlefield is your feast, and the fallen are your meal. Melee kills grant 10 HP." I'm currently running the Steel Sledgehammer and, when clearing a POI last night, I started paying closer attention and noticed that I was not getting any HP on kills. Looking on Reddit from ~5 - 6 months ago it seems others were discussing this matter as well.

Is this talent supposed to be, specifically, for the knuckle weapons? All melee weapons? Is it just bugged? Perhaps I'm missing something, lol.

 

[meganoth]

Yes, usually perks in an attribute tree are only for the weapons in that tree. Often the flavour text refers specifically to the weapon but sometimes not.

If the perk actually works for other weapons as well, those weapons are usually listed. Not sure without looking, but I think run&gun is such an exception.

 

[Sajakain]

Even that being the presumed case, others were noting that the fist weapons (which seem to be the weapons of the tree) were also not working. I can do some tests on a different server. That aside, though, the sledgehammer is considered a "melee" weapon along with the likes of the spear, etc. I figured all would count.

 

[Riamus]

Yes, usually perks in an attribute tree are only for the weapons in that tree. Often the flavour text refers specifically to the weapon but sometimes not.

If the perk actually works for other weapons as well, those weapons are usually listed. Not sure without looking, but I think run&gun is such an exception.

That is something that has always annoyed me. If a perk applies to only one weapon or to weapons only in that tree, it should say so. Some perks do. But if it doesn't say it only applies to specific weapons, it should apply to all. There should never be any confusion over what weapons a perk applies to. And to clarify it even more, any perks applying to all weapons or all ranged weapons or all melee weapons should specifically state that, and any that apply only to specific weapons should state the weapons, or the tree, or the tool type (e.g. mining tools or salvaging tools) that it applies to.

There are still perks that I have no idea if they apply to other weapons or not. Bleeding for "bladed" weapons, for example... a spear is a bladed weapon, but I'd assume that only applies to knives. It's just a bad description, and unless you want to test it out or read the XML, you have no idea whether it will benefit you or not.

 

[meganoth]

That is something that has always annoyed me. If a perk applies to only one weapon or to weapons only in that tree, it should say so. Some perks do. But if it doesn't say it only applies to specific weapons, it should apply to all. There should never be any confusion over what weapons a perk applies to. And to clarify it even more, any perks applying to all weapons or all ranged weapons or all melee weapons should specifically state that, and any that apply only to specific weapons should state the weapons, or the tree, or the tool type (e.g. mining tools or salvaging tools) that it applies to.

There are still perks that I have no idea if they apply to other weapons or not. Bleeding for "bladed" weapons, for example... a spear is a bladed weapon, but I'd assume that only applies to knives. It's just a bad description, and unless you want to test it out or read the XML, you have no idea whether it will benefit you or not.

I agree. But there can only be a handful of problematic perks with ambiguous descriptions. How about collecting them and making a bug report? If you collect all of those instances, I'll do the bug report.

 

[bdubyah]

The xml from the perk shows it should apply to any weapon with the melee tag, which sledgehammers all have. There is no requirement for only Fortitude weapons, so seems to be a bug if it isn't applying.

<effect_group>
        <requirement name="ItemHasTags" tags="melee"/>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfKilledOther" action="ModifyStats" stat="Health" operation="add" value="2">
                <requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkSiphoningStrikes" operation="EQ" value="1"/>
            </triggered_effect>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfKilledOther" action="ModifyStats" stat="Health" operation="add" value="4">
                <requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkSiphoningStrikes" operation="EQ" value="2"/>
            </triggered_effect>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfKilledOther" action="ModifyStats" stat="Health" operation="add" value="6">
                <requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkSiphoningStrikes" operation="EQ" value="3"/>
            </triggered_effect>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfKilledOther" action="ModifyStats" stat="Health" operation="add" value="8">
                <requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkSiphoningStrikes" operation="EQ" value="4"/>
            </triggered_effect>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfKilledOther" action="ModifyStats" stat="Health" operation="add" value="10">
                <requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkSiphoningStrikes" operation="EQ" value="5"/>
            </triggered_effect>

            <effect_description level="1" desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank1Desc" long_desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank1LongDesc"/>
            <effect_description level="2" desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank2Desc" long_desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank2LongDesc"/>
            <effect_description level="3" desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank3Desc" long_desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank3LongDesc"/>
            <effect_description level="4" desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank4Desc" long_desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank4LongDesc"/>
            <effect_description level="5" desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank5Desc" long_desc_key="perkSiphoningStrikesRank5LongDesc"/>
        </effect_group>

 

[Riamus]

I agree. But there can only be a handful of problematic perks with ambiguous descriptions. How about collecting them and making a bug report? If you collect all of those instances, I'll do the bug report.

Okay, here you are. Note that many of these are minor or implied. I just decided to include anything that I think could have the wording improved. There are only a few that aren't actually clear. But if we're going to improve the wording, we might as well do them all. If you only want to mention the ones that aren't clear/implied, those are: Big and Fast, Strength Mastery, Brawler, The Huntsman, Deep Cuts, Whirlwind, and Agility Master.

Perception:

Demolition Expert:
Level 2, 4, 5 don't mention explosives. It's implied since the main description does. This is minor and isn't that important, but if changing descriptions, they might as well change these as well. See descriptions for other weapons to see how this is different.

Spear Master:
Main description for the perk itself doesn't mention spears. It's implied since the perk levels mention spears, but it should probably be changed.

The Penetrator:
The main description for the perk mentions spears. The perk levels do not.


Strength:

Pummel Pete:
The main description mentions clubs and bats, but the perk levels only mention clubs. It's implied that bats are included, but it should say so.

Big and Fast:
Nowhere in this perk does it mention bats. Does it affect bats? If so, it should say so in the main description and the perk level descriptions.

Strength Mastery:
Level 4 doesn't mentioned bats. Does it affect bats? If so, it should say so in the description.

**Note that Strength Mastery level 5 just says strength based weapons. That could be a way to describe these in less space than saying clubs, bats, and sledgehammers if needed.

Miner 69'er:
The main description doesn't mention what tools it applies to. The perk levels do, so this is minor, but it should still say something like "increasing mining tool damage" instead of just "increasing tool damage".

Mother Lode:
The main description doesn't mention what tools it applies to. The perk levels do, so this is minor, but it should still say something like "when using mining tools".


Fortitude:

Brawler:
The main description says it applies to using fists, which could indicate no weapon held. The level descriptions mention knuckle weapons, but not fists. It obviously applies to knuckle weapons and should say that in the main description, but does it also apply to unarmed attacks (fists) as the main description says? If so, that should be mentioned in the level descriptions, and if not, "fists" should be removed from the main description.

The Huntsman:
This seems to indicate that any weapon with a blade counts, but does it really affect spears? Would a shovel count since it's bladed? I am pretty sure steel knuckles count, though the others don't. I'm not sure how to be more clear with this. As long as any weapon or tool that could be considered to be bladed counts, it is probably fine. But if any do not count, they should either be changed to count or else the description should be made more clear.

Siphoning Strikes:
The main description doesn't mention melee attacks. It just says "every hit", which could include ranged attacks. The level descriptions clearly say melee attacks. The main description should also say melee attacks, but this is minor since the level descriptions are clear.


Agility:

Archery:
The main description says bows and crossbows, but the level descriptions only say bows. The level descriptions should say both bows and crossbows just to be clear. This is minor, though.

Gunslinger:
The main descriptions says handguns and SMG, but the level descriptions only say handguns. The level descriptions should say both handguns and SMG just to be clear. This is minor, though.

Deep Cuts:
The main description says bladed weapons like knives and machetes but not axes. Are spears or steel knuckles included? It isn't clear. The description should be changed to make it clear.

Whirlwind:
The main descriptions just says blades, while the level descriptions say knife attacks. This seems to indicate only knives and machetes are affected. But when you see Deep Cuts, you're left wondering if maybe it affects things other than only the knife tiers. Blades should probably just say "knives and machetes" and the level descriptions should probably say "knife or machete attacks".

Agility Master:
Level 1 doesn't make it clear if this applies only when using Agility based weapons or any melee weapon or any weapon, including ranged, and doesn't make it clear if it affects tools as well. It appears to affect all weapons, as well as all tools, and even unarmed attacks. If that isn't true in some way, it should be made more clear.