PC Shout-out to those responsible for the xml modding framework.

[John Black]

I’ve recently started a new game, no traders and today I ran into a bloody vending machine and was ah f**#.  Luckily this is 7d2d, so it was shutdown the game, 2 mins of xml, restart and problem solved! I mean, holy @%$#, compare that to starting up the UE/Java to mod something like that, and you’d most likely still have to rebuild the chunk or restart the map.

Sure, we need loads more of exposures and bits we can tweak, but there is no comparison out there that I know of.

So a big THANK YOU MadMole, and everyone instrumental in the development of this awesome XML/XPath modding framework.

 

[Roland]

Pleased to hear some positivity regarding the ability/need to mod in order to get the kind of game you want to play. It's unfortunate that some people look upon the ability to modify the game as something "sad" or as a "necessary evil". It is, in fact, a huge benefit provided by the developers and they do deserve props for structuring the game code the way they did. No less thanks to all the talented folks out there extending the game into exciting new areas and taking it beyond the vanilla experience. You guys are tireless in your desire to recreate 7 Days in your own vision and to keep it working update after update after update.

 

[Gamida]

I don't understand the negativity some have with adding mods. I mean they will ask for a certain thing to be added to game. There may be a mod out there that does exactly what they want but won't use it because it is not in the vanilla game. But as I said it is something they asked for. If the devs added it they would use it so the only difference is who is adding it. If devs add their request it's fine, if a modder makes it, it's not.

 

[theFlu]

I don't understand the negativity some have with adding mods.

Hi,

- Linux user here; last I checked, I can't run the mod launcher. So, manual maintenance including copying the game around, trying to not mix my saves and versions etc.

- Do I care enough about this exact thing to learn the process to mod it in? And bother with the headaches of maintaining it?

- Don't have an account for a mod site (would I need one? Do I care enough to figure that out?)

- Can this mod mess up my localhosted co-ops? Would my friends want the mod or not?

- If it's a small issue that would improve the game; why wouldn't I suggest adding it to base game - whether or not I use the mod?

- Can I say I like 7dtd / am good at it / suggest my friends to get it, if I'm actually enjoying one of the overhauls?

And with all that said, I'm firmly pro-modding, some of that stuff looks awesome Kudos for TFP indeed.

But it's not like modding is a zero investment proposition.

 

[Ramethzer0]

I don't understand the negativity some have with adding mods.

I thought about this for a while myself, until I learned that some folks don't want to change.  They want the rest of the world to change for them.

 

[Roland]

Hi,

- Linux user here; last I checked, I can't run the mod launcher. So, manual maintenance including copying the game around, trying to not mix my saves and versions etc.

- Do I care enough about this exact thing to learn the process to mod it in? And bother with the headaches of maintaining it?

- Don't have an account for a mod site (would I need one? Do I care enough to figure that out?)

- Can this mod mess up my localhosted co-ops? Would my friends want the mod or not?

- If it's a small issue that would improve the game; why wouldn't I suggest adding it to base game - whether or not I use the mod?

- Can I say I like 7dtd / am good at it / suggest my friends to get it, if I'm actually enjoying one of the overhauls?

And with all that said, I'm firmly pro-modding, some of that stuff looks awesome Kudos for TFP indeed.

But it's not like modding is a zero investment proposition.

I agree that the barrier to using a mod may be too high for some users and it really has to be up to them whether they want those changes badly enough to invest the learning and time needed to make it happen.

But there are some who complain AND they admit that they currently use mods. They use them and act like using them is a sign of failure on the part of the developers. The first time I modded extra zombies into my game I had a huge grin on my face and felt a great sense of enjoyment. But some others who do the same thing seem to have a big frown on their face and feel a great sense of indignation...

 

[theFlu]

They use them and act like using them is a sign of failure on the part of the developers.

Well, it's not evidence to the contrary, either? They feel the game is broken enough that they have to obtain a fix from a 3rd party. I mean, plenty of launch versions of AAA games worked just fine*.

* as long as you went and got the proper "mods" once they were published by 3rd parties. Some called them "fixes" but that's just semantics.

The first time I modded extra zombies into my game I had a huge grin on my face and felt a great sense of enjoyment. But some others who do the same thing seem to have a big frown on their face and feel a great sense of indignation...

Indeed, it's a matter of perspective. People are prone to seeing things differently; this does not come as a surprise to a forum mod... Some see it as "wohoo, I got to improve the game like this" and some will go "geez, this was so easy, why aren't the devs doing this already." The latter may not see the minimum specs as gospel, while the former may just have low standards for devs. I wouldn't know; I won't even make a claim if that is knowable...

 

[Maharin]

I've played the game so long and have done lots of things including modding just about every XML file in the game... but currently I play unmodded and not that often.  I'm kinda waiting for some of the big stuff that will truly change the game to be released (like bandits) and/or release.  Once I have a more stable target to aim for I will start modding the hell out of this game, for sure, and sharing what I can that makes sense.

In the meantime I'm just a nuisance on the forums.  

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

I agree that the barrier to using a mod may be too high for some users and it really has to be up to them whether they want those changes badly enough to invest the learning and time needed to make it happen.

But there are some who complain AND they admit that they currently use mods. They use them and act like using them is a sign of failure on the part of the developers. The first time I modded extra zombies into my game I had a huge grin on my face and felt a great sense of enjoyment. But some others who do the same thing seem to have a big frown on their face and feel a great sense of indignation...

That would be me. Because it´s a huge pain to get everyone in the group to mod when you are the only one who is experienced with modding games. I can mod my SP, no problem. MP is s a problem. That´s why i use mods, but still say that some things that can be solved with mods should be solved by the devs.

 

[Gamida]

Hi,

- Linux user here; last I checked, I can't run the mod launcher. So, manual maintenance including copying the game around, trying to not mix my saves and versions etc.

- Do I care enough about this exact thing to learn the process to mod it in? And bother with the headaches of maintaining it?

- Don't have an account for a mod site (would I need one? Do I care enough to figure that out?)

- Can this mod mess up my localhosted co-ops? Would my friends want the mod or not?

- If it's a small issue that would improve the game; why wouldn't I suggest adding it to base game - whether or not I use the mod?

- Can I say I like 7dtd / am good at it / suggest my friends to get it, if I'm actually enjoying one of the overhauls?

And with all that said, I'm firmly pro-modding, some of that stuff looks awesome Kudos for TFP indeed.

But it's not like modding is a zero investment proposition.

I don't use linux but I also don't run the mod launcher either. I just manually make a mods folder and add in the mods I want. I sometimes have 2 or more copies of the game on my hard drive of different versions or for trying different overhaul mods so it doesn't affect my vanilla game in my steam folder. (Also that helps from my games from being changed when a new version drops )

You don't need an account for a mod site. Plenty of mods in the forum.

As for messing up you localhosted co-op you could do what I mentioned above. Just make a copy of the 7 days to die game somewhere else on your drive and use that for testing mods.

As for getting it added to base game. Am all for it. If it increases gameplay time for me I am all in lol

The main part of you last line is "if I'm actually enjoying one of the overhauls". That says it all right there. Who cares what anyone else thinks if you are enjoying your own game.

I think my statement I made made me come off as not respecting people who like to play vanilla. That is not the case. I often play a vanilla version of 7 days. Especially when a new alpha drops. Then later I slowly add in a mod here and there until I run out of hard drive space to add any more

 

[theFlu]

I don't use linux but I also .. <snip>

Umm, heh. Seems I might've sold that blurb a little too well; I'm mostly aware of most of that stuff by now, I was just making the point that there's a whole lot that goes into modding a game - which in comparison makes a little whine on the forum an order of magnitude easier.

As in, I appreciate the advice, even if the effort might've been a bit wasted here, sorry

Who cares what anyone else thinks if you are enjoying your own game.

And I absolutely agree with that, whatever rustles yer boat ..

 

[Maharin]

TFP is Kung Fury


Spoiler

 

[Gamida]

Umm, heh. Seems I might've sold that blurb a little too well; I'm mostly aware of most of that stuff by now, I was just making the point that there's a whole lot that goes into modding a game - which in comparison makes a little whine on the forum an order of magnitude easier.

As in, I appreciate the advice, even if the effort might've been a bit wasted here, sorry

And I absolutely agree with that, whatever rustles yer boat ..

lol no problem there. Someday someone might see it and get something from it.

And I never rustles my boat...not in public anyway

 

[Roland]

Well, it's not evidence to the contrary, either? They feel the game is broken enough that they have to obtain a fix from a 3rd party. I mean, plenty of launch versions of AAA games worked just fine*

Not yet its not. There is no launch version of this game yet.

If this game launches full version without a slider to optionally increase or decrease enemy spawns in the game and the only way to do so is to mod more in (for example*) then I will be first in line to agree that the evidence stacks up on the side of modding being relied upon as a fix-- but until then the jury is out and modding is simply a way to get what you want until the devs put it in themselves.

*Of course, everyone is going to have their own personal little quibbles about what a flaw is but I think there will be large universal agreement on certain issues like the lack of any option in the top menu to adjust spawning numbers and rates. Matt will never convince me that the absence of a newstand is a game design flaw and the debate over LBD vs central pool will go on forever but there are some issues that most would agree upon.

 

[bdubyah]

Matt will never convince me that the absence of a newstand is a game design flaw

He'd probably soften his stance on the newsstand if you give him the skeletons. 

 

[theFlu]

If this game launches full version

So.. wait. what?

Gamida: "I don't understand people complaining about the lack of features they could mod in"

Me: "Modding is actually pretty involved... a proper fix might reduce the headache later on. So, why not?"

Roland: "Some people are modding and complaining about THAT like it's a problem"

Me: "Yeah, they might be complaining because they have to fix it themselves"

Roland: "Yeah, but the game isn't complete yet"

I mean.. yeah, it isn't. But isn't Early Access a decent enough time to give feedback.. like.. "I'm using these mods, and they seem real popular among my friends. How about adding them to vanilla." Are we about to embark on a voyage of discovery about the nuances of "complaining"?

I'm all for civility, but I still fail to see how any of this is surprising to anyone ... Whenever it is easier to type an angry post rather than "look for - install - upkeep" a mod for you and yours; people will take the easy route and whine.

 

[Gamida]

So.. wait. what?

Gamida: "I don't understand people complaining about the lack of features they could mod in"

Me: "Modding is actually pretty involved... a proper fix might reduce the headache later on. So, why not?"

Roland: "Some people are modding and complaining about THAT like it's a problem"

Me: "Yeah, they might be complaining because they have to fix it themselves"

Roland: "Yeah, but the game isn't complete yet"

I mean.. yeah, it isn't. But isn't Early Access a decent enough time to give feedback.. like.. "I'm using these mods, and they seem real popular among my friends. How about adding them to vanilla." Are we about to embark on a voyage of discovery about the nuances of "complaining"?

I'm all for civility, but I still fail to see how any of this is surprising to anyone ... Whenever it is easier to type an angry post rather than "look for - install - upkeep" a mod for you and yours; people will take the easy route and whine.

I am all for adding some of these mods to vanilla. I asked Subquakes about releasing the ability to lock individual slots as a standalone, but he didn't go for it . Modding is pretty involved...if you are making the actual mod. A huge amount of mods I have used are really just drag and drop to use. Mind you I know the pitfalls of adding 2 mods that mix like oil and water. That is how I learned to add them one or two at a time, not 20 at once lol.

 

[doughphunghus]

So.. wait. what?

Gamida: "I don't understand people complaining about the lack of features they could mod in"

Me: "Modding is actually pretty involved... a proper fix might reduce the headache later on. So, why not?"

Roland: "Some people are modding and complaining about THAT like it's a problem"

Me: "Yeah, they might be complaining because they have to fix it themselves"

Roland: "Yeah, but the game isn't complete yet"

I mean.. yeah, it isn't. But isn't Early Access a decent enough time to give feedback.. like.. "I'm using these mods, and they seem real popular among my friends. How about adding them to vanilla." Are we about to embark on a voyage of discovery about the nuances of "complaining"?

I'm all for civility, but I still fail to see how any of this is surprising to anyone ... Whenever it is easier to type an angry post rather than "look for - install - upkeep" a mod for you and yours; people will take the easy route and whine.

It wold be appreciated a bit if a certain mod was used “a lot” TFP could put it on a list or something of “things we may add once the game is ready” (not guaranteed, just “seeking input on this feature but we promise nothing”)  just so:

1. You would know this is a possible “feature” to be added, so the modders may keep it up. And people might stop asking for x feature.

2. People might be willing to add the mod(s) in the list, just to get a feel/input for how it might best work, so once the game is “ready” the mod is hopefully literally “ready enough”  for TFP to add its code/features.

3. TFP might have a round of “adding these mods” as part of the game as a final “feature test” before going gold.  It might be cool/neat.

 

[theFlu]

I asked Subquakes about releasing the ability to lock individual slots as a standalone, but he didn't go for it .

Darnit; no actual idea about that mod, but if I were to add any mod, inventory locks would be the first one. The counter-based one is fine enough, but a terraria type "lock any slot by alt-click" would be pretty great.

if a certain mod was used “a lot” TFP could put it on a list

I'm sure TFP are keeping an eye on what QoL mods people like, but listing them out.. well, lets just say they've become quite reluctant stating anything about possible futures, people take such things way too seriously.

Straight up "copying" a mod might be a legal nightmare; even if both sides would be happy about it. I wouldn't consider any such thing without either MIT-license on the mod or an actual contract about it.

 

[Gamida]

Darnit; no actual idea about that mod, but if I were to add any mod, inventory locks would be the first one. The counter-based one is fine enough, but a terraria type "lock any slot by alt-click" would be pretty great.

Yeah it is a pretty sweet option. I think you just had to right click the slot to lock/unlock it. Would have been perfect for me as I like to keep certain items in a certain slot and not have them move when I clicked the sort button or move all to a storage box. If TFP were ever going to add something, that would be about my top choice.