PC Should T6 tier even exist?

[Liesel Weppen]

The top ranges will always be non craftable.

And that is finally the point the OP complains about (and already did in different threads). In the end it doesn't matter if it is called T6, purple, legendary overpowered, unique or zombie-crunching tool. He is complaining about he can't craft the "best" state of a tool.

 

[RipClaw]

T6 tier in all cases is better than what you can craft making sure that the moment you loot a T6 pistol/fireaxe/hammer or whatever all crafting for that specific equipment is useless.

I would not see it that way. Since you can often craft Q5 items earlier than you find them and Q6 items are rare, the items you craft can serve you well for a long time. They can also be useful beyond that. When I found a Q6 auto shotgun, I used my crafted Q5 auto shotgun as a secondary weapon for the horde and loaded it with slugs.
 

 

[Boidster]

Both. Legendary might come in all qualities so people experience them and have some meaningful choices to make... Do I ditch this brown iron legedary for a green non legendary? The top ranges will always be non craftable.

In other words Legendary is a tier, not a quality. I assume Legendary tier items will probably not be craftable at any quality? I hope not anyhow...how is it "legendary" if stupid ol' me can make one at my makeshift workbench?

As a crafter myself, I think the highest-quality (non-Legendary) items should only be craftable by stupid ol' me on my makeshift workbench, but I will sit here in my wrongness.

 

[alanea]

In the first days of A19 I'm not going to waste a point on Miner 69'r just to craft a L2 stone axe, because I absolutely know I will find a L3 or L4 even, within an hour or two.  That mindset does carry over to weapons now as well.  Saves me skill points for things that I deem a lot more worthy in the early game, namely attributes which I find are a lot more worthwhile.  

Eventually, yes I will perk into Miner 69'r and Clubs and Pistols or whatever...but that's mostly for the extra damage those perks do, not so I can craft a slightly better one.  Steel tools and Tier 3 weapons are a different story since I tend to be able to make them before they start dropping, and, with weapon parts being somewhat rare, I'd only ever craft a L5 once I've hoarded enough parts.   Armour I don't bother to craft at all, and would only perk into it once I find a set of purple (and have points to waste in the later game).

As for the poll, those extra mod slots on purples are what it's all about.  If I could craft them I would, but I don't care if I can craft them or not...as long as I can get my hands on them somehow.

well single  point in miner /weapon  gives you  more damage/block damage than 1 quality level  regardles of what you using .... even with q6 so those points are never wasted ... actually miner69er is strongest perk for building..  and quite valueble even if you just break doors/safes .... weapon perk damage is great as well ... so even if you never craft one you didnt wasted anything  quality  is  just bonus added to existing perk

and if nothing else ... its always easy way to craft  Q5 top tier stuff you missing ... and Q5  are  not really that far from Q6  if you look at stats ...8% +6%  from mod ?  enought to serve as  endgame item .... while still keeping some motivation and space to loot better one

Both. Legendary might come in all qualities so people experience them and have some meaningful choices to make... Do I ditch this brown iron legedary for a green non legendary? The top ranges will always be non craftable.

question is ... will be legendary significantly better than Q6 ?  or will be green legendary comparable to green normal ...with some special bonus .. and potentialy worse than higher quality normal gun

can we expect more mod slots that Q6?

 

[Liesel Weppen]

In other words Legendary is a tier, not a quality.

Nit picking. Either top-end stuff is craftable or not. Doesn't matter if you call it legendary, T6, purple... oh i guess i already stated that...

 

[Ezed]

well single  point in miner /weapon  gives you  more damage/block damage than 1 quality level  regardles of what you using .... even with q6 so those points are never wasted ... actually miner69er is strongest perk for building..  and quite valueble even if you just break doors/safes .... weapon perk damage is great as well ... so even if you never craft one you didnt wasted anything  quality  is  just bonus added to existing perk

Thanks for your viewpoint.  It's different than mine and that's ok.

Nit picking. Either top-end stuff is craftable or not. Doesn't matter if you call it legendary, T6, purple... oh i guess i already stated that...

Sounds more like they could be any Level and any Tier...which leads me to believe they will have some magical buffs making them 'Legendary'...but not necessarily always 'Top Tier'.

LOL Where's Roland...all of these comments on Legendary should be moved TO the Dev Diary

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Sounds more like they could be any Level and any Tier...which leads me to believe they will have some magical buffs making them 'Legendary'...but not necessarily always 'Top Tier'

What?

I'm not sure i understand what you mean?

Once there is something potentially better you can only loot but not craft ALWAYS somebody will complain about he can not craft it. No matter how you call it.

I also don't know what particular T6 items people have looted so far, but for my case, some T6 was even worse than my T5 stuff. If at all t6 was better, than just because of the additional mod slot, but even with that most T6 was still worse.

I still use a t5 pump gun, because even t6 found auto shotgun is worse for my particular use. I prefer max damage per shot, increased magazine size by lower damage per shot doesn't help that. But it might for people that do more spray and pray...

 

[Ezed]

Both. Legendary might come in all qualities so people experience them and have some meaningful choices to make... Do I ditch this brown iron legedary for a green non legendary? The top ranges will always be non craftable.

@Liesel Weppen

MM mentions a brown iron legendary...so a level 2, tier 2 Legendary item.  So, a legendary L2T2 would not be top tier.  That's all I was saying.  

 

[Roland]

However the heck it turns out it seems that not being able to craft the best of the best is overwhelmingly acknowledged by the community to be the right move. Can we get a "TFP listens to the players" HUZZAH!!!!!

 

[Kalen]

In other words Legendary is a tier, not a quality. I assume Legendary tier items will probably not be craftable at any quality? I hope not anyhow...how is it "legendary" if stupid ol' me can make one at my makeshift workbench?

As a crafter myself, I think the highest-quality (non-Legendary) items should only be craftable by stupid ol' me on my makeshift workbench, but I will sit here in my wrongness.

I wouldn't say legendary is a tier.... it sounds more like exceptional versions of existing items of any tier or quality.

 

[Solomon]

This is just another way to ask "should the highest quality be craftable?"  TFP have pretty much already answered this question:  No.

Let's say TFP think you're right and remove quality 6..... then they'll make quality 5 uncraftable.   Odds are good that when legendary items are added, quality 6 will be craftable again.

Not really, i think it shouldnt exist at all.

Like in its current form an uncraftable higher level gear what invalidates crafting should not exist.

 

[Kalen]

Not really, i think it shouldnt exist at all.

Like in its current form an uncraftable higher level gear what invalidates crafting should not exist.

Of course it's the same thing.... if quality 6 didn't exist then quality 5, which is craftable, would be the highest quality.  You are asking for the highest quality gear to be craftable.   It's been brought up over and over again, and TFP have said no.... they want the highest quality gear to be looted not crafted.

I don't see how that philosophy invalidates crafting.   I'm on day 62 in my current game and have crafted tons of equipment.... many of which I still use.   

 

[Solomon]

OP, have you actually experienced what your concerned about or is it mostly just what if / theoycrafting?

Theorycrafting mostly, i play on a modded game so what i see is different from what everybody else sees by default.

I really dont like the idea that there is a quality level superior to everything what you can craft out in the world i dont mind that certain items are loot only (thought i believe that these should be taken a look again on what is and what is not craftableable like spring VS m60).

I wont gonna mind if TFP introduces legendary unique pistols what came with interesting extras but i wont be happy if it all boils down to "this is just T7 equipment".

 

[Solomon]

Of course it's the same thing.... if quality 6 didn't exist then quality 5, which is craftable, would be the highest quality.  You are asking for the highest quality gear to be craftable.   It's been brought up over and over again, and TFP have said no.... they want the highest quality gear to be looted not crafted.

I don't see how that philosophy invalidates crafting.   I'm on day 62 in my current game and have crafted tons of equipment.... many of which I still use.   

Its a bit stretch but i can see what you mean so i try a different approach:

I dont mind if there is unique variants of equipment around us as long as they are not just some "extra stats and thats it". T6 in its current form is nothing but a statboost to your regular equipment aka same pistol but better in all aspects.

For example look at Taza's stone axe, it could be the T6 stone axe as its an unique variant of the common tool. Slightly better stats with an "unique" look, for all the equipment the same can be done that T6 items are not just in general a clear upgrade but more like an unique variant like imagine a "Handyman Wrench" what has the same stats as the normal wrench with an unique hidden modifier that it generates +1 bonus materials randomly.

 

[Kalen]

Its a bit stretch but i can see what you mean so i try a different approach:

I dont mind if there is unique variants of equipment around us as long as they are not just some "extra stats and thats it". T6 in its current form is nothing but a statboost to your regular equipment aka same pistol but better in all aspects.

For example look at Taza's stone axe, it could be the T6 stone axe as its an unique variant of the common tool. Slightly better stats with an "unique" look, for all the equipment the same can be done that T6 items are not just in general a clear upgrade but more like an unique variant like imagine a "Handyman Wrench" what has the same stats as the normal wrench with an unique hidden modifier that it generates +1 bonus materials randomly.

Ok, I see what you're getting at.... but you could say the same thing about all the quality levels.   Each is nothing more than a "statboost" from the preceding level.  What you're describing sounds exactly like what I believe is the plan for legendary items... so you'll get your more interesting items eventually.   But that doesn't make Q6 items something that should be removed, IMO.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Voted "yes", but i do agree that T6 is still much MUCH to easy to find.
If you have more than one legendary after 100 hours of gameplay, it is, in my opionion, too much.
Should it be better than anything you can craft? Yes. Defniatly.
Should it maybe even have unique effects like setting enemies ablaze or something? That would be cool.

What I do not agree with is the rate at which you get them.
Ever since "that time"

Spoiler

and by that time I obviously mean A17

loot has been very much off balance. They are trying to fix this. And I really like that day 4 I still often use my trusted blunderbuss (props to you TFPs), but quality escalates way too quickly. And therefor T6 as well.

If you had to craft everything, but you found that one legendary pistol and that one legendary military helmet that you didn't need to craft anymore, because you know they are the best, would you have a problem with that? I do not think so.
I think what you have a problem with (correct me if im wrong) is, that T6 makes crafting useless very quickly. If the drop rate for T6 was handled better, i dont think you would mind all that much!

 

[Tehnomaag]

"Other option"

I'm not a fan of there being a "magical" tier of equipment of which we can already make ourselves. It is OK for them to be loot-only, but it should not be exactly the same thing you can already do, it should be a pre-apocalypse artifact. Meaning that you would not be able to produce that kind of stuff at all on your own. So instead of "stone axe" you should fin a pre-apocalypse "survival axe" of the highest quality, as an example. 

 

[Vampirenostra]

Voted "yes", but i do agree that T6 is still much MUCH to easy to find.
If you have more than one legendary after 100 hours of gameplay, it is, in my opionion, too much.
Should it be better than anything you can craft? Yes. Defniatly.
Should it maybe even have unique effects like setting enemies ablaze or something? That would be cool.

What I do not agree with is the rate at which you get them.
Ever since "that time"

Spoiler

and by that time I obviously mean A17

loot has been very much off balance. They are trying to fix this. And I really like that day 4 I still often use my trusted blunderbuss (props to you TFPs), but quality escalates way too quickly. And therefor T6 as well.

If you had to craft everything, but you found that one legendary pistol and that one legendary military helmet that you didn't need to craft anymore, because you know they are the best, would you have a problem with that? I do not think so.
I think what you have a problem with (correct me if im wrong) is, that T6 makes crafting useless very quickly. If the drop rate for T6 was handled better, i dont think you would mind all that much!

Great answer! T6 should be really hard to find and obtain. It is way too fast and way to easy to loot all sorts of items now including T6.

And I don't really like the way we loot now in places of interest like ToolShops and GunMessiah.... Even if im level 1 going there should provide me with some at least iron tools! Make it hard to beat the dead out of there, but loot should be a reward! Maybe there should be a way for pois to have some loot differentiation by poi type? Like in ToolShop you're more likely to find metal tools and in in weapon shops some weapons, especially in sealed safes! Maybe you can seal them with better locks, so early game players can not open them or need some perks in lock picking? Whatever, finding stone tools in tool shop looks weird...

 

[meganoth]

Voted "yes", but i do agree that T6 is still much MUCH to easy to find.
If you have more than one legendary after 100 hours of gameplay, it is, in my opionion, too much.
Should it be better than anything you can craft? Yes. Defniatly.
Should it maybe even have unique effects like setting enemies ablaze or something? That would be cool.

What I do not agree with is the rate at which you get them.
Ever since "that time"

Spoiler

and by that time I obviously mean A17

loot has been very much off balance. They are trying to fix this. And I really like that day 4 I still often use my trusted blunderbuss (props to you TFPs), but quality escalates way too quickly. And therefor T6 as well.

If you had to craft everything, but you found that one legendary pistol and that one legendary military helmet that you didn't need to craft anymore, because you know they are the best, would you have a problem with that? I do not think so.
I think what you have a problem with (correct me if im wrong) is, that T6 makes crafting useless very quickly. If the drop rate for T6 was handled better, i dont think you would mind all that much!

Agree as well. Q6 should be very seldom and that includes Q6 of lower tiers, especially T0 (note I switched to calling it quality because I need to talk about the tiers as well). Right now T0 Q6 stone tools and weapons are so good that they rival T1 Q3 tools and weapons (may be somewhat different since the last patch). If the Q6 stone axe is an exception most people will already look at the Q3 iron axe as a replacement instead of Q4. This sounds small but makes 66% of iron age relevant instead of only 50%. I.e. reduces the overlap quite perceptibly

 

[Blake_]

However the heck it turns out it seems that not being able to craft the best of the best is overwhelmingly acknowledged by the community to be the right move. Can we get a "TFP listens to the players" HUZZAH!!!!!

I agree though. I also support your trolling whenever it happens. It could be called at least a Q6 Legendary trolling weapon.