PC Should Quality progress with item tier?

[Old Crow]

All of my Q6 gear/weapons have been looted or rewarded, so far. 

Maybe look into those mechanics first?

I'm going to guess you haven't been playing 1.0+? Because you can't get gear from quest rewards anymore, nor can you loot Q6 gear.

It really doesn't matter, though.  Anything you can only use a limited number of times will always stack up and collect dust eventually.  Unless you make them so rare that it's just annoying to try to find enough of them for what you need, which isn't a good option either.  I'd rather just see more use for them, such as an increasing amount required for each tier instead of always just one part.  You'd still eventually stack them up, but it would use more of them without making it a pain to find them.

Right now, most people usually only use parts on T3 items.  Most people likely make Q6 for each armor item and 2-3 weapons and maybe 2 tools.  For most people, that's under 10 parts for an entire game for each person.  There really needs to be more use for them rather than making them more rare, imo.  And to be clear, that's my estimate of what most people probably do.  I could be wrong.  But even if I am, I doubt most use more than 15 or so parts per person in any single game.

See, this works as a great idea. Higher Tier = More Legendary Parts required.

 

[Roland]

All of my Q6 gear/weapons have been looted or rewarded, so far. 

Maybe look into those mechanics first?

Time to update, Kemosabe

 

[ImCalledBethy]

I'm going to guess you haven't been playing 1.0+? Because you can't get gear from quest rewards anymore, nor can you loot Q6 gear.

See, this works as a great idea. Higher Tier = More Legendary Parts required.

Time to update, Kemosabe

That's weird. I'll check.

 

[Syphon583]

I'm not sure I mind having legendary primitive tools/weapons, though I admit I never waste a legendary part on them. By the time I do have parts to waste, I'm well beyond the primitive age. However, IMO I don't think primitive tools/weapons should be able to be repaired or have mods, but that's a different topic.

 

[Deadfordays]

I'm not sure I mind having legendary primitive tools/weapons, though I admit I never waste a legendary part on them. By the time I do have parts to waste, I'm well beyond the primitive age. However, IMO I don't think primitive tools/weapons should be able to be repaired or have mods, but that's a different topic.

I kind of like the fact that you can repair a stone axe or shovel with a rock. I use these for basic stuff like opening trash or breaking/repairing a weak block. It only takes up one or two spots in my belt also. I could see maybe the higher tier stone tools needing maybe more rock and wood and grass to repair as you go higher up Quality...? (Just not a repair kit). I personally would not want to have to continually make these tools when they break, just a quick repair. I do agree, I only upgrade to Q5 and only put a mod in them if I have extras. 

 

[Syphon583]

I kind of like the fact that you can repair a stone axe or shovel with a rock. I use these for basic stuff like opening trash or breaking/repairing a weak block. It only takes up one or two spots in my belt also. I could see maybe the higher tier stone tools needing maybe more rock and wood and grass to repair as you go higher up Quality...? (Just not a repair kit). I personally would not want to have to continually make these tools when they break, just a quick repair. I do agree, I only upgrade to Q5 and only put a mod in them if I have extras. 

Yeah, I should clarify. What I mentioned about repairability is purely a personal feeling and I'm not petitioning TFP to make that part of vanilla (though I wouldn't be mad if they did). If I really want to play like that, I'll find or make my own mod to add that particular challenge to my gameplay.

For me, they're so easy to make it really wouldn't be that bad to have to make a new one each time. I know of several overhaul mods that work this way as well and the idea has always appealed to me. And then with the idea of putting mods on primitives, if we could craft primitive-style mods, that would be one thing. But finding a mod in the world that was made for modern tools and using it on a primitive version is a little silly. Again, vanilla is fine the way it is, though. I can mod it if I really want to.

 

[Riamus]

But finding a mod in the world that was made for modern tools and using it on a primitive version is a little silly.

I suppose that depends on the mod.  It would be possible to attach a scope to a pipe gun or a sharpened blade to a wood spear or armor plates to primitive armor, for example.  Even if not intended for those items, it would be possibly to jury rig it.

 

[Deadfordays]

Yeah, I should clarify. What I mentioned about repairability is purely a personal feeling and I'm not petitioning TFP to make that part of vanilla (though I wouldn't be mad if they did). If I really want to play like that, I'll find or make my own mod to add that particular challenge to my gameplay.

For me, they're so easy to make it really wouldn't be that bad to have to make a new one each time. I know of several overhaul mods that work this way as well and the idea has always appealed to me. And then with the idea of putting mods on primitives, if we could craft primitive-style mods, that would be one thing. But finding a mod in the world that was made for modern tools and using it on a primitive version is a little silly. Again, vanilla is fine the way it is, though. I can mod it if I really want to.

Oh for sure, definitely agree on your points. I agree primitive mods would be better then slapping a fire axe mod on a stone axe, although maybe it could give you a lessor advantage than with an actual item made for it. I usually have a small amount of stone and wood on me when clearing poi's and even if I forget them it's easy to just hit a wall to get more to make repairs to stone items. To make a new one would be just as easy I suppose, I just prefer it "breaking" but still able to repair it. 

 

[8_Hussars]

That being said, I think the propensity to skip quality tiers when crafting is simply a function of how speedily a player is rushing the progression. If you are playing the game without a focus on speedily progressing then you tend to stay at each crafting level for longer and so are less likely to skip.

I know you appreciate there is a large crafting continuum that has nothing to do with rushing/not rushing progression, so that's a bit of over generalization.

I suspect its more linked to player needs/wants, stage of the play through, and the usefulness of the intermediate crafted stages. As an example, once a player crafts a hammer there is no real advantage to craft another repair tool until the nailgun is unlocked.

I would suggest that commonly no player crafts every tier of any primary tool or weapon tree and probably very few craft every other tier. Which is a conundrum, if your a goal is to increase crafting, and allow legendary crafting.

I was just thinking how silly it is that Quality 6 Primitive gear still requires Legendary Parts. No one's going to waste a Legendary Part on a stone axe. That got me thinking more though -

Maybe a "Legendary Part" could be optional in any crafted tool or weapon?  It would give a bonus to damage/block damage and provide an extra mod slot? Players currently horde them for T6 end game gear at the moment, but this might open up Legendary part use a little more strategically.

 

[Dead Smarty]

Maybe a "Legendary Part" could be optional in any crafted tool or weapon?  It would give a bonus to damage/block damage and provide an extra mod slot? Players currently horde them for T6 end game gear at the moment, but this might open up Legendary part use a little more strategically.

This is one of the most interesting idea's if that would do a significant bonus. The extra mod slot would do wonders on simple tools!

 

[BFT2020]

I kind of like the fact that you can repair a stone axe or shovel with a rock.

I understand why they did that from a gameplay perspective....but the engineer in me just shudders about using a rock based tool to bang on objects all day and only replace the stone occasionally  

 

[Riamus]

I know you appreciate there is a large crafting continuum that has nothing to do with rushing/not rushing progression, so that's a bit of over generalization.

I suspect its more linked to player needs/wants, stage of the play through, and the usefulness of the intermediate crafted stages. As an example, once a player crafts a hammer there is no real advantage to craft another repair tool until the nailgun is unlocked.

I would suggest that commonly no player crafts every tier of any primary tool or weapon tree and probably very few craft every other tier. Which is a conundrum, if your a goal is to increase crafting, and allow legendary crafting.

Maybe a "Legendary Part" could be optional in any crafted tool or weapon?  It would give a bonus to damage/block damage and provide an extra mod slot? Players currently horde them for T6 end game gear at the moment, but this might open up Legendary part use a little more strategically.

The hammer and nailgun are special situations because upgrades to those are pretty meaningless.  A Q1 of either is mostly the same as a Q6 of the same one.  Yes, you get extra distance at Q6 and the repairs are a bit faster, but upgrading blocks is the same and repairs really don't need to be faster for most people.  So those really shouldn't be considered when discussing upgrades to tools other than to suggest that the upgrades should be changed to be meaningful or else there should only be one quality level for each of those tools.

I really don't think we need extra mod slots from what we have now.  In many cases, you're just tossing on random mods to fill slots as it is (and each mod added already adds damage).

 

[8_Hussars]

The hammer and nailgun are special situations because upgrades to those are pretty meaningless.  A Q1 of either is mostly the same as a Q6 of the same one.  Yes, you get extra distance at Q6 and the repairs are a bit faster, but upgrading blocks is the same and repairs really don't need to be faster for most people.  So those really shouldn't be considered when discussing upgrades to tools other than to suggest that the upgrades should be changed to be meaningful or else there should only be one quality level for each of those tools.

I really don't think we need extra mod slots from what we have now.  In many cases, you're just tossing on random mods to fill slots as it is (and each mod added already adds damage).

Lets keep in mind the context of the OP.  The current meta is to horde Legendary Parts for end gear and not craft intermediate Legendary Items. The OP suggested a different tool/weapon progression model to restructure progression that still supported the use of Legendary Parts for end game.

I believe crafting decisions are (or should be) more nuanced. However, I chose the hammer as an obvious example specifically because it refuted Roland's over generalization that players who "rush progression" skip crafting levels and those players that "casually go along" don't skip as many.  Perhaps, a poor example and one you obviously disagree with. 

The suggestion was to use Legendary Parts in a different way than currently implemented. Specifically to grant a particular tool/weapon (even armor) "extra bonuses" if crafted with a Legendary Part. That RPG concept would do some things, create a decision point, increase the use of Legendary Parts, encourage crafting of earlier levels and perhaps more levels, and also possibly allow more crafting level skipping. 

The "extra bonuses" could be any appropriate tool/weapon (even armor) characteristic (stamina loss, durability, attack speed, etc.) For example, and sticking with the block damage and mod suggestions from previously. If I craft a T2 or T3 pickaxe with a Legendary Part and get T4 performance (+block damage, extra mod slot), then I would consider it against my progression and current needs, instead of collecting books until T4 and hoarding Legendary Parts for end game loot. Maybe Legendary items cant be repaired or its more resource intensive to repair?

Obviously, a suggestion like this needs to be balanced within the game. It needs to be attractive enough to generate the decision point and unattractive enough to just generate a new meta.

 

[Riamus]

Lets keep in mind the context of the OP.  The current meta is to horde Legendary Parts for end gear and not craft intermediate Legendary Items. The OP suggested a different tool/weapon progression model to restructure progression that still supported the use of Legendary Parts for end game.

I believe crafting decisions are (or should be) more nuanced. However, I chose the hammer as an obvious example specifically because it refuted Roland's over generalization that players who "rush progression" skip crafting levels and those players that "casually go along" don't skip as many.  Perhaps, a poor example and one you obviously disagree with. 

The suggestion was to use Legendary Parts in a different way than currently implemented. Specifically to grant a particular tool/weapon (even armor) "extra bonuses" if crafted with a Legendary Part. That RPG concept would do some things, create a decision point, increase the use of Legendary Parts, encourage crafting of earlier levels and perhaps more levels, and also possibly allow more crafting level skipping. 

The "extra bonuses" could be any appropriate tool/weapon (even armor) characteristic (stamina loss, durability, attack speed, etc.) For example, and sticking with the block damage and mod suggestions from previously. If I craft a T2 or T3 pickaxe with a Legendary Part and get T4 performance (+block damage, extra mod slot), then I would consider it against my progression and current needs, instead of collecting books until T4 and hoarding Legendary Parts for end game loot. Maybe Legendary items cant be repaired or its more resource intensive to repair?

Obviously, a suggestion like this needs to be balanced within the game. It needs to be attractive enough to generate the decision point and unattractive enough to just generate a new meta.

If the bonuses are different from extra mod slots or damage, such as increased stamina or attack speed (things you can't get on items any other way) and you could optionally use legendary parts on any quality level, then I would support that.

As far as what Roland said, I agree with his point.  If a player is taking their time in the game and will end up with the same weapon for an extended period of time, they may be more willing to craft a Q6 than if they know they will replace the weapon really soon.  But most players don't play that slowly, and even those who do might not craft a low tier Q6.

When it comes down to it, I care more about regular parts than I do about legendary parts.  I have no problem spending legendary parts since I find a ton of them.  But if I tried to craft a lot of intermediate level weapons, I would always be spending a lot of time trying to find enough.  If regular parts were split up by tier, I might craft more intermediate levels because lower tier parts won't be any use for higher tier stuff anyhow.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

I don't know how to answer this but i'll try.

I'm in a minute minority. I play slow to try not to miss anything,
although I have missed some weapons and didn't know they were in the
game, until I was shown.

I would leave it the same, not because i agree or disagree with it,
but because I simplify and mod changes constantly.

The way I do it is, I take the it is what it is approach. Dull to most but,
only certain mods change the use of the tools, an example serrated edge,
promotes bleeding, but should lower durability especially if used on any
other materials. Also for me unless you are using a stronger elemental
material like diamond, there is only one quality, and only mods would
change the output. Like for projectile weapons,  barrel length, more grains,
Bullet tip material. To me a 9 mm is just that, unless a mod is added, and
just giving it greater damage to make it uber, and keep me in balance with the

increased entity progression, makes it more of a numbers race, as has been 

proven time after time in posts.

In the end if it's fun for the individual, either can be in place.

 

[Dead Smarty]

The way I do it is, I take the it is what it is approach.
...

In the end if it's fun for the individual, either can be in place.

The best way to enjoy a game.
Still it is fun that feedback can be given here and see how it turns out in the future.