PC Should cobblestone be buffed?

As a builder/grinder I agree that the current form of base defending is too difficult.

I spend 4 out of 7 days building a full cobble fort with spikes and barbed wire all around it.

The ammount of zombie's that just rammed through is too high.

It took them (4 zombies) 15 secondens to get trought barbed wire, spikes and a cobble stone wall.

I could not do enough DPS with my Tier 2 shotgun to kill 'em.

 
You have to actively defend your base. ACTIVELY. If you sit and wait out the night your base will get wrecked. Zombies get a buff when several group together to do even more damage. If you do not thin them out by killing them then they will destroy your base. A17 requires rethinking base design and base defense. If you don't want to adapt and want to do A16 strategies then you will need to return to A16 for them to be effective. If you want to be successful with A17 then experiment and be active in defending. Or wait until people who do figure things out post their strategies and then copy them.
That buff is it only block damage or entity damage as well?

 
You have to actively defend your base. ACTIVELY. If you sit and wait out the night your base will get wrecked. Zombies get a buff when several group together to do even more damage. If you do not thin them out by killing them then they will destroy your base. A17 requires rethinking base design and base defense. If you don't want to adapt and want to do A16 strategies then you will need to return to A16 for them to be effective. If you want to be successful with A17 then experiment and be active in defending. Or wait until people who do figure things out post their strategies and then copy them.
Even armed with an SMG and a rocket launcher, you can't even 'thin' the first horde before they've had their way with the base. The only thing that stopped by base from collapsing completely was an interesting tether distance where they couldn't decide whether they wanted to path at me or attack the next block, and the miraculous structural properties of flagstone. Had they not drifted ever so infrequently back into my line of fire, they would have levelled the POI LONG before any 'active' defense could have worked.

The argument is amazing, only in theory. In practice, trying to hit a dozen coked up death-rockets that destroy EVERY block it touches every six seconds for about ten minutes, is currently extremely implausible (and based on current observations from literally every veteran 7DTD content creator who's tried, impossible). Zombies move too fast for a solo player 'actively defending', and 'walls' don't work period and haven't for several versions because TFP has been overbalancing against extreme base setups and players who had quality iron tools by day 2, not a damn primitive with a pile of sticks, a rock, and an idea of what's coming. Once they chew through that poi wall, or any wall, good luck.

Zombies and horde sizes need to be toned down for 'active defense' to even come close to a competitive strategy. You have 0 (zero) seconds before a breach will occur with any material you can scrounge up with a stone axe. You can't defend against that. I've even heard stories of cops and irradiated in that first horde night. For someone with a mere 8 shotgun rounds, that's the point where survival stops being an achievable obstacle.

A17.0_2018-11-21_23-06-25.jpg

By the time they had chewed that far, I'd killed all but six of them, but there would be no way I could engage them (I laugh and spit in your face good sir if you think I'm going down there and WIN with a stick and a grass skirt). If they pathed farther in for more supports, the building would be done, and my base, and my multi-year experience with this game. Mind you, I had a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rocket launcher (with 3 flak rockets) and an SMG with 100 rounds (compliments of an air drop), and STILL had to blow through 200 arrows just to kneecap those half dozen through the gaps while they had a pathing conniption. This building was effectively solid flagstone (500hp blocks), and getting it to brick was out of the question.

I chose it specifically because it was the only building with a perimeter small enough, which wasn't made of toilet paper, that I could confidently even TRY to defend with anything I could gather with a god damn rock on a stick. It also has a fair resemblance to the size and durability of what a player could POSSIBLY manage in A16 if a perimeter wall could be put up fast enough. Stone wall, bunch of spike traps, and an overlook. I've done it often enough, but then the construction worker zombies showed up and I knew that it didn't matter what kind of setup I had, it was going to get trashed IMMEDIATELY.

I have seen only ONE instance where someone survived the first horde night, and that was because Grumbul had a second damn base within sprinting distance after his first collapsed entirely. Everyone else is getting completely trashed. This screenshot doesn't count as a second, on account of a flak rocket blast.

The 'Best' current solution to the 7-day feral hordes is to strip buck fk'in naked and stand out in a field for the night and just eat the death penalty for what the effort is worth. It's better to watch a youtube Cat Compliation Video while respawning, then pay off the 1 hour in the 'Time out chair", than ruin 5-7 hours of work that wasn't meant to be defended in the first place. Repeat until you get a bicycle or motorcycle and then just drive off 'till dawn. InB4 these 'magically' stop working on blood moon horde nights.

1. Zombies' block damage needs to be toned down. Trunk tips are gone, dude, let it go. Let. It. Go. Make Wood great again, at least for that first horde. Let people free-build again. No more special damage bonuses. Let it go. You can relax, you gave us an electric slap chop for Christmas and it's great when the irradiates show up. You don't need to coke up your party regulars anymore, they're fine being normal posthumus humans. Let it go. Those thirty-block deep layers of steel trunk tips in the first week can't hurt you anymore.

2. Zombies run/animation speed needs to be turned down slightly. You can't hit them for sh*t even when they stand 'still'. It also looks cheap and wierd, like I left a stream on 1.5x speed.

 
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"InB4 these 'magically' stop working on blood moon horde nights."

Your whole post is on point, but this little tidbit here is great. This entire alpha is, as I said in another post, like the DM is angry that you outsmarted his traps and monsters and is punishing you. Anything other than going directly in and fighting toe to toe has been nerfed. Anything outside of the box, no matter how reasonable, is 'exploitive' and disallowed.

When simply choosing to die and eat the penalty is the optimal strategy for Blood Moon nights, it indicates the design philosophy has veered far off course and needs to be re-evaluated.

 
Not to say that I don't enjoy the new update. I'm very pleased with 90% of it, and I think it's mostly a step in the right direction. It just needs a good bit of balancing. I like that the perks offer a lot of choice and flexibility in how the game is approached, but the same can't be said of other parts of the game. There's now a heavy emphasis on questing and looting POIs, especially in the early game. IMO the game should reward multiple playstyles. If I choose to spend 3 days grinding 10 metric tons of stone, crafting how many hundreds of cobblestone, and building something decently fortified, I should be rewarded with a some-what defensible, not completely destroyed position at the end of week one. I'm consciously making that tradeoff to have a secure position in exchange for reduced loot and perks. I'm not asking for complete safety, I enjoy the challenge. I just wish 3 hours of work wasn't completely wrecked 1/4 way through the first BM horde.
I'm a builder too and this is the first Alpha I have no idea what to build for horde night. From all I've seen anything available D7 is just gonna get wrecked so I'm just gonna take to the streets and fight there rather than wasting my time. No clue how long term we are supposed to build a base that we don't have to rebuild large swaths of daily. Hopefully some balance to z block damage occurs as now it seems really over the top.

 
"InB4 these 'magically' stop working on blood moon horde nights."
Your whole post is on point, but this little tidbit here is great. This entire alpha is, as I said in another post, like the DM is angry that you outsmarted his traps and monsters and is punishing you. Anything other than going directly in and fighting toe to toe has been nerfed. Anything outside of the box, no matter how reasonable, is 'exploitive' and disallowed.

When simply choosing to die and eat the penalty is the optimal strategy for Blood Moon nights, it indicates the design philosophy has veered far off course and needs to be re-evaluated.
I think you nailed it. It looks like TFP took it personally that you could outbuild BM horde, so they went all out to destroy the builder playstyle.

 
or try this

CB2B5BD3826B7BC1AD2F8197142A7DE7BDC49C1A
oof. how long did that take with the new "improved" challenges in progression? Looks like you went straight for digging from day 1 without even getting those 5 juicy points for the noob quest. Respect for determination, I would go crazy trying this in early gameplay without an auger. (Which btw I did find on day 1 in my last b197 run. It was epic. Then the b199 update hit.)

Also traders are OP wizards and I will call you a wizardlover. :D

Edit: Spotting cm-blocks in your toolbelt tho...

why not just go into town and camp on top of al the buildings with bridges around ? xD
Those bridges at least won't take too much effort gathering mats for. It's an old but gold idea, thanks for reminding me of it, will try it next run.

 
I think you nailed it. It looks like TFP took it personally that you could outbuild BM horde, so they went all out to destroy the builder playstyle.
The crazy thing here is how far they have gone in destroying the original selling points for the game in pursuit of beating the players. We started with an awesome and sensible premise: here is a world with zombies, and you can build things and deform the landscape in order to stay alive. So sensible people did things like use the abilities the game provided. Some went guns and interdiction, some got tools and went avoidance, built high, or dug into the earth for safety. Why this offends some players or the devs is a mystery to me, because it is exactly what you would expect people to do: use the tools available to avoid being killed by ravenous but stupid undead. Seriously, it's to the point that it's okay to use a gun to defend against zombies, but it's not okay to use a pickaxe to dig and hide from them, or otherwise outsmart them. Why on earth, in a game DESIGNED to let players deform terrain and shape it to influence the gameplay, is it bad to use it for defense? Especially when one of the core tenets of the lore is that the enemy is DUMB?

It makes no sense, and this war of escalation is destroying the game.

 
I haven't hit a 7 day horde yet, guess I'll turn the settings all the way down to easy until I can figure something out.

- P

 
I want my durable blocks back from a16. I think they could still make zombies hit harder than a16 but not this much.

 
After digging in the XML, it looks like the zombies no longer get specific bonuses to materials. Flagstone is 500, the brick upgrade brings it up another 1000. Reinforced scrap can push about 2000, but I will say this now: it doesn't seem to matter. The day 7 horde liquified a stone-walled base in minutes. Later hordes can not be "Actively Defended" by a single player on a good day, only actively avoided by a vehicle or 'succumb to despair'.

The problem is that there are a LOT of zombies that do 50+ damage to blocks, and they're mixed in at a very high rate, Most particularly are Worker zombies with a punch that can break steel (250), your base means nothing to them. Combine that with the "cluster♥♥♥♥ buff", the total nerf to player damage output, AND the fact they run like coked up murder hobos on a video played back at 1.5x speed, and you have a completely unwinnable defensive situation.

Dogs DO get a bonus to dirt still, funny enough, although I don't believe they'll dig down.

The only working defensive options are Powered defenses like the electric slap-chop, and -barbed wire-. yeah. Barbed wire. That thing that was literally the worst defensive option unworthy of even being a last resort. Turns out it actually works for a change. Pity the punji sticks are trash.

 
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Personally, I think building a base for the first horde is not worth it in A17. I'd ride it out on a POI and let them destroy it or dig to bedrock (the zombies dug about 20 blocks in the forest biome in my testing). If you really want to build a base for the Day 7 horde and don't mind cheesing it, I'd recommend a 7x7 platform base using poles (4 poles per corner). I'd make it 5 high with a 4x4 section of wood blocks in the center and wood frames on the outside. I tested several different starter base designs and this one worked the best. The chesse factor is that the zombies have a hard time targeting the poles. This was tested in B199 and might not work in future builds.

 
The best solution for the day 7 and 14 horde: Find the biggest POI you can, nerd pole up, clear the roof, and camp out. Something with at least 3 floors and a roof should be adequate. Bonus points if you find a place made with survivorproof glass.

Nobody REALLY cares if those fancy dungeon-crawl buildings happen to get completely annihilated. It'll just grow back if it gets flagged for a mission.

Yup. magically grow back. Turns out, starting a quest at a POI resets it structurally, replacing destroyed blocks like doors etc. Found that out tonight.

 
If you treat this like the previous versions, then yes your best bet is an old poi. I would recommend the destroyed buildings, as those are sturdy and you can stay on top of them and shoot down.

However, once you get the hang of things, it is quite possible to make a good horde base. the trick is to break up each day into activities: grind resources, hunt food, scavenge, then reinforce the base. Reinforcing the base is the key. There are new blocks that are pretty great. I have been using the 1/4 scr's as a platform for shooting down, and if you aim right you can melee through the gaps.

You should not hide in the base at night, but instead try to shoot at and kill any wandering zombies that get too close. This will not only get you xp, but will give you an idea as to how they will attack your base come horde night.

 
Don't even try to have anything hold a horde. Either avoid damage (you can still build a plate-form and nerdpole on it) or kill them somehow before they attack the wall.
It's slow to build, better spend your energy on farming ammo and get some xp back.
But... I play this game mainly for the building.... There are many survival games out there, with far better combat and survival mechanics than 7d2d. The thing that makes 7d2d the best survival game is the building....

I havent reached my first horde night yet, but I sure hope this post is an exaggeration, bc my focus on this game is make a reliable base.

 
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