PC Shared XP should mean Shared XP

I play peer-to-peer in a tight team and some solo this far, so, in all honesty, this doesn't effect me in any way. We just level faster or slower as a team depoending on where this lands.

The enviroments where this matters to any extent, are

- multiplayer server with some kind of competition going on between different sized groups.

- a base-sitter (builder or AFK) getting XP

I'd say, in the default settings (whatever else can be set or modified, well, doesn't really matter, the game has a creative menu and modding support, it is completely breakable anyway :) )

- balance this roughly to equal gains for equal effort for solo player and group player, so, limited or no bonus "XP total per kill"

- balance the base sitter XP by some other means (although, I have no idea how exactly. Set zombie XP to zero? :) )

 
No. It's not faster. By definition, "faster" means faster... as in more EXP/HR.
By the proposed changes by people here who dislike the current system, it is precisely the SAME exp/hr as solo.

Solo = 500 exp per kill. Let's say, for sake of argument, 2 kills a minute average. That's 1000 exp per minute = 60,000 exp per hour.

Team of 3 players = 500 exp per kill. 6 kills a minute average. Divided by 3 per player = still EFFECTIVELY 2 "full kills a minute average or 60,000 exp per hour per player. the exact same as solo. Yes its technically 6 kills a minute, but I say 2 because you gotta divide by 3
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Well, yes. Speaking as one of the people who would prefer true sharing, that's exactly what I want.

I don't want partying up to give you more xp or have you go up levels quicker. I want it to be the same rate as single player.

I do want partying up to split all the gained xp equally so that when you choose who will do the building and who will do the farming and who will go off and do the looting you don't have the issue that some of those activities are worth more or less xp than others. Everyone will get the same and will be free to do whatever activity they prefer.

 
Well, yes. Speaking as one of the people who would prefer true sharing, that's exactly what I want.
I don't want partying up to give you more xp or have you go up levels quicker. I want it to be the same rate as single player.

I do want partying up to split all the gained xp equally so that when you choose who will do the building and who will do the farming and who will go off and do the looting you don't have the issue that some of those activities are worth more or less xp than others. Everyone will get the same and will be free to do whatever activity they prefer.
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If ALL exp is shared (not just zombie but also building, mining whatever) then... I could possibly get on board with the exp being "split" all ways. But if we're talking just zombie exp, then no. Can't agree there.

 
If ALL exp is shared (not just zombie but also building, mining whatever) then... I could possibly get on board with the exp being "split" all ways. But if we're talking just zombie exp, then no. Can't agree there.
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Yeah - the option I want is the option to share all xp. If that option isn't available, then the current system is better than nothing.

 
No. It's not faster. By definition, "faster" means faster... as in more EXP/HR.
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I was thinking that killing in a group would make killing exponentially faster. Maybe that is inaccurate. (I mean, my buddy and I clear POIs pretty quickly as a team, and it seems much faster than just x2.)

 
Well, I admit, short of getting a stopwatch and really measuring it, we can't be sure. I am just making some assumptions.

I would say its probably easier to just bum rush a POI with a team not caring about stealth which could result in maybe exponential kill rates.

Maybe if quests were better reward wise, this would solve most of the dilemmas. Let's get some better quests that really emphasize team work and have the rewards reflect that.

Faster quest completion = faster exp, without necessarily increasing the exp per zombie.

 
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If they could come up with a set of perks that only apply to multiplayer, then an option might be to leave xp as xp but add mxp that is shared and can only be used to get those kinds of perks.

 
lets not make this asian grindfest ok?

some ppl want split exp per mobs...seems they dont have played much mmos?? its ♥♥♥♥ system what kills team play.

i indeed want all exp what i touch..you see what i mean?

 
lets not make this asian grindfest ok? some ppl want split exp per mobs...seems they dont have played much mmos?? its ♥♥♥♥ system what kills team play.

i indeed want all exp what i touch..you see what i mean?
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Then turn it off, and the guy doing nothing gets no xp. And I have over a year of playtime on MMO's, ran one of the top guilds on FFXIV and played FFXI alot too. This game is not comparable to pure MMOs. Alot of those it is "required" to do team play to progress.

In this game it creates an unfair advantage for only some players and doesnt make any sense.

Those games have matchmaking where a simple queue is all you need to get a group, with 1000's on 1 server, not 8-40 people (designed for 8-12) . Totally different animal.

Was this game an asian grindfest before they added super bonus for team killing? No

Is it an asian grindfest for solo players who get no bonus xp or help from others surviving? No (but more so than it is for teams)

 
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When did multiplayer become the primary focus of this game? It's an honest question, because I don't see how a design feature like this gets put in without a meeting occuring where somebody says aloud "screw singleplayer".

It goes hand in hand with re-instituting level gates because co-op teams level too fast...what insane circular logic! They level too fast because you gave them a ton of bonus xp!

For those complaining that a true xp sharing system takes away the incentive to team up, I wonder what kind of game you think this is. You don't team up for xp bonuses, you team up to SURVIVE.

Every member of your team is a target for the zombies that is NOT YOU. When I play, every single zombie in the world is trying to kill me and just me. Team players not only get vastly increased access to the skill tree, not only vastly enhanced resource gathering ability, not only the ability to divide and conquer when it comes to exploration/looting, not only incredibly speedy zombie killing, they also have potential meat shields to draw aggro away from themselves at any given point in time!

You want to have bonus xp on top of all of that?!

That you can actually defend the current system with a straight face is wacky to me.

True, rangeless, equal SHARING of all xp is the only thing that makes sense for a game of this genre.

 
What this feature does:

A) Give an incentive to people in co-op games to do quests together (for PvP see last paragraph)

B) Make it unimportant who does the kill of a zombie, while questing, scaveniging or on horde night

My point is that B is the important one even though A was given as a reason for this feature. Why?

In a co-op game people already want to do quests together because

1) usually you have only a one or two traders in the vicinity and with more people you can do more quests before going back to the trader

2) more eyes watching your back or helping you in sticky situations in close quarter

3) people playing co-op want to do things together.

B on the other hand allows people to devise interesting strategies without feeling disadvantaged, for example one bruiser in front throwing zombies to the floor and everyone behind finishing them off. Or the group storming into a POI and one dedicated to just watching their back, Similarly on horde nights there could be the main entrance, but one player is the dedicated molotov thrower or makes sure no zombies hit on side walls undisturbed and no climbing or flying Z's get in.

So I think xp share should be either divided between players without any bonus xp on top or the bonus MUCH smaller, for example a flat 5%, no matter how many are in a group.

Extending the range of xp sharing or extending it to other ways of getting xp is an entirely different feature with entirely different reasons to do or not to do it. If someone does only gardening in this game (like the OP's hubby seems to do) I have to ask what does he do 23 of the 24 hours left of a day after gardening???

For PvP servers the sharing bonus XP is probably undesirable, whether it is the huge bonus of A17.1 or something like a flat 5%, but PvP servers have to mod anyway in the foreseeable futture, removing that bonus is just one more item on a long list.

 
After reading more responses I have changed my mind. I am convinced that at least an option for sharing all xp with party members regardless of distance would be a good move so that people can just do what they wish without worrying about imbalances in xp gains. I don't know that it should be the default setting though.

One thing has me curious. What do all the people who are desirous of LBD think of this? Seems like even another step towards abstracting experience. Even the current system has at least a bit of learn by doing since at least some of the points would be coming from your own actions whereas the proposed setting would mean you would be applying points that were gained by nothing you personally did at all.

 
After reading more responses I have changed my mind. I am convinced that at least an option for sharing all xp with party members regardless of distance would be a good move so that people can just do what they wish without worrying about imbalances in xp gains. I don't know that it should be the default setting though.
One thing has me curious. What do all the people who are desirous of LBD think of this? Seems like even another step towards abstracting experience. Even the current system has at least a bit of learn by doing since at least some of the points would be coming from your own actions whereas the proposed setting would mean you would be applying points that were gained by nothing you personally did at all.
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Just speaking for myself and my hubby, we picked "share XP" because in a co-op game in which we're both building and sharing the base and the base defense, and all aspects of the growth of our base, including materials, resources, food, mining, forge work, and distribution of skill points across disciplines ... we each feel that we are shouldering 50% of the survival of our group, no matter what the role. There's already some consideration towards who is going to specialize in what for skill point expenditure and the sense of "team" and "group survival" is a driving factor.

Outside fo that things should, imho, be equal; it feels funny me being the melee dude crushing more zombies than him (more xp) and being the strong guy unlocking the mining perks and therefore being the miner (more xp) and therefore ramping up the levels faster than him. I mean mechanically it really means nothing other than I am pushing the game stage up faster than he is, BUT I get more points to spend outside of our chosen specializations, I get to start pointing points in personal skills, protection based skills before he does, and that starts to introduce a level of "aw mayun! *kicks stone*"

I'm not sure I am explaining this well, but basically we're a team, responsibilities and duties are even, we both clear POIs, we both hunt, we both defend the base, we both contribute towards its well being ... and one of us is 20+ levels ahead and moving further ahead each session.

 
After reading more responses I have changed my mind. I am convinced that at least an option for sharing all xp with party members regardless of distance would be a good move so that people can just do what they wish without worrying about imbalances in xp gains. I don't know that it should be the default setting though.
One thing has me curious. What do all the people who are desirous of LBD think of this? Seems like even another step towards abstracting experience. Even the current system has at least a bit of learn by doing since at least some of the points would be coming from your own actions whereas the proposed setting would mean you would be applying points that were gained by nothing you personally did at all.
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Hey Roland -

Thanks for keeping an open mind here. I could also agree the large share distance should maybe not be default, as long as I can change it, I'm happy.

Since I am also a fan of the LBD, I can voice my opinion on this matter. In my opinion, LBD exp should NOT be sharable probably, does not make a ton of sense. That said. Correct me if I'm wrong, because my memory is hazy, but in A16, you also had a primary exp bar, right? This much, I would like to see shared among players, but you'd still have to individually level up mining, firearm skills, athletics, etc, if this makes sense?

 
After reading more responses I have changed my mind. I am convinced that at least an option for sharing all xp with party members regardless of distance would be a good move so that people can just do what they wish without worrying about imbalances in xp gains. I don't know that it should be the default setting though.
One thing has me curious. What do all the people who are desirous of LBD think of this? Seems like even another step towards abstracting experience. Even the current system has at least a bit of learn by doing since at least some of the points would be coming from your own actions whereas the proposed setting would mean you would be applying points that were gained by nothing you personally did at all.
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Sounds like a great way to balance this broken idea for the people taking advantage of it. Just makes it worse for anyone else who doesnt want to, unless its actually shared xp and not bonus xp.

 
If the default is tolerable for those that don't like it, it should not be too difficult to find vanilla / default setting servers - I'm sure they are a dime a dozen, no? So, one just needs to find a server with mostly default settings. BTW the default for exp sharing is very small like 10-30 meters so any server currently running defaults, you can't leech exp with. Yeah they get lots of exp when grouping up, but at least they have to play the game and can't just go afk.

 
If the default is tolerable for those that don't like it, it should not be too difficult to find vanilla / default setting servers - I'm sure they are a dime a dozen, no? So, one just needs to find a server with mostly default settings. BTW the default for exp sharing is very small like 10-30 meters so any server currently running defaults, you can't leech exp with. Yeah they get lots of exp when grouping up, but at least they have to play the game and can't just go afk.
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Pssht, light 20 campfires around the base, 1 guy kills, 5 sit up in the base. This wont change the fact that its exploitable and simply unfair to solo players.

 
Then make the default completely disabled, doesn't bother me as long as I can turn it back on. Look, it's harsh, but I bet we can do a poll and the majority of players are in favor of the way it is now and you simply can not please everyone but usually you can please a majority. That being said, I don't want to screw over the people who hate it, so I'm amenable to making the default setting something that solo players can accept.

 
To all the commentors, including roland, complaining about the range:

My friend loves to build. He loves being the crafter, base builder, organizer, farmer, chef, etc. I love looting POIs and combat.

Shared xp...at 10,000m range...means that we can level up reasonably equally. Without that shared xp, or without that range, We might as well not bother playing MP.

No, that isn't hyperbole. He likes crafting, i like fighting. If i'm level 80 to his level 30, he's not accomplishing very much in the crafting/building department. He's certainly not a help to me, and I'm hindering his efforts by jacking our game stage WAY beyond his ability to deal.

Removing the shared xp OR the range would literally remove any incentive to play MP. The point of cooperative MP is sharing the work. You can't share the work if you're wildly different levels. You just end up dragging each other down. Try it - have a group of 2 level 80s on day 28 bring in 2 fresh level 1s. suddenly the game is nearly twice as hard for the level 80s while they get nothing out of it, and the game is near impossible for the level 1s to deal with.

Both my friend and I shelved the game in A13...and 14...and 15....and 16....because solo play was fun for a bit...until it wasn't...and coop play, which we both wanted, was near impossible unless I logged out and let him play 3x as much time. A17 finally gives us the chance to stay reasonably close in level. We crank xp share distance to max, and suddenly he's levelling at roughly the rate I am. His crafting keeps up with our level, and we both have the gear to defend our base and play how we want.

But hey, change the xp share distance options down to minimal in order to remove options from players that use them...I hear that works well with games...

we'll just fiddle the xmls to increase it anyways....its just amazing how often TFP decides to remove even the OPTION to play how some people want to play.

Also, to the person whining that shared xp is unfair and even the option shouldn't exist because no servers will use the method that's fair to solo players...

Really? you're whining because you can't play MP in a way that no one else wants to play it (as evidenced by the fact that no servers are running minimal or no shared xp distance)? The fact that those settings aren't being used are de facto proof of preferred playstyles.

 
To all the commentors, including roland, complaining about the range:
My friend loves to build. He loves being the crafter, base builder, organizer, farmer, chef, etc. I love looting POIs and combat.

Shared xp...at 10,000m range...means that we can level up reasonably equally. Without that shared xp, or without that range, We might as well not bother playing MP.

No, that isn't hyperbole. He likes crafting, i like fighting. If i'm level 80 to his level 30, he's not accomplishing very much in the crafting/building department. He's certainly not a help to me, and I'm hindering his efforts by jacking our game stage WAY beyond his ability to deal.

Removing the shared xp OR the range would literally remove any incentive to play MP. The point of cooperative MP is sharing the work. You can't share the work if you're wildly different levels. You just end up dragging each other down. Try it - have a group of 2 level 80s on day 28 bring in 2 fresh level 1s. suddenly the game is nearly twice as hard for the level 80s while they get nothing out of it, and the game is near impossible for the level 1s to deal with.

Both my friend and I shelved the game in A13...and 14...and 15....and 16....because solo play was fun for a bit...until it wasn't...and coop play, which we both wanted, was near impossible unless I logged out and let him play 3x as much time. A17 finally gives us the chance to stay reasonably close in level. We crank xp share distance to max, and suddenly he's levelling at roughly the rate I am. His crafting keeps up with our level, and we both have the gear to defend our base and play how we want.

But hey, change the xp share distance options down to minimal in order to remove options from players that use them...I hear that works well with games...

we'll just fiddle the xmls to increase it anyways....its just amazing how often TFP decides to remove even the OPTION to play how some people want to play.

Also, to the person whining that shared xp is unfair and even the option shouldn't exist because no servers will use the method that's fair to solo players...

Really? you're whining because you can't play MP in a way that no one else wants to play it (as evidenced by the fact that no servers are running minimal or no shared xp distance)? The fact that those settings aren't being used are de facto proof of preferred playstyles.
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This guy, I like this guy... and agree with him +1

 
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