PC Realism and games

As for bullet sponge zombies, they are just more of a cheap/lazy way to increase difficulty, when one can increase difficulty with more creative/fun ways like for example the recent improvement of zombie AI.
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Okay sorry can't let that one go. [Respectfully]

Going to go Darkside here and go Realism for a moment.

Don't worry it's temporary. I'm going to go back to making fun of it right after.

Dead Island used a mutated Kuru virus to explain zombies.

Essentially your memories become useless when infected with a Prion disease.

All those protein strains bond together and become such a mess that your brain reverts to instinctual behaviour.

Those processes are governed by a tiny little bit of meat at the base of your skull.

Essentially those zombies could withstand a head shot and keep going.

A shot to the body would made little difference [unless we're dealing with some kind of blood flow then shot in the heart would do.]

Point is, bullet sponge zombies could arguably be just as realistic under the right circumstances.

Although in the end, however..... doesn't matter because...

It's a plot device.

Buwaahahahahaha!!!

aBI5tHu.gif
 
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I think a lot of it comes from the place we are in now. We are "in" the uncanny valley. Graphics are very realistic now and the worlds we are able to play in have become very close in regard to physics.

In a survival setting I always want to have a realistic experience in the sense that what my character goes through will be analogous to how I would experience something.

This is a very genre dependent thing. It is also a very selective thing. I think realism is often times used to describe its effect on immersion. That to me is what most people are getting at. Zombies are certainly not real, but neither is a zombie pounding through concrete in a few minutes with their fists.

I can accept zombies shambling around in a horde. That makes more sense than a Zombie that can pound through concrete with their fists, yet die easily from a few wooden stakes in the ground. Realism = congruence. With out a congruent world, you have to selectively turn off your objective observations and shift to a completely subjective one.

I like GTA 5 for how realistic the physics are, but I sure as hell don't want cops to pay attention to my driving like they do in real life or you'd never finish the game obeying every traffic law.

Where and when to draw the line is the hardest part. The difference between fantasy and realism is always going to be hard for devs when making things with super natural aspects.

 
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Where and when to draw the line is the hardest part. The difference between fantasy and realism is always going to be hard for devs when making things with super natural aspects.
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Game play is the line.

You make the game as fun as possible for the most people you can.

Then you accept that you're gonna get flamed by those who don't fit into that group.

Nothing else you can do.

No matter what you do in this world, there's someone who won't like it.

There's people who don't like this post I'm writing right now.

 
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@warmer All that is true, but my question would be what system would replace zombies breaking into concrete? It's a game mechanic to give the player a threat. It's not to combat realism. It's just a part of the game. If they couldnt do the concrete, then you'd be 100% safe. Is that the end of the game? Once realism is reached, you win? That's a big part i'm having trouble understanding from the point of view from a non realismer (yes that's a word... now.) Once that line is crossed, its over, in this game... And i'm not calling you out for your post. Just using it as a reference. Maybe you do or maybe you dont know why this type of system would be wanted or not. Just getting view points. :)

 
Game play is the line.
You make the game as fun as possible for the most people you can.

Then you accept that you're gonna get flamed by those who don't fit into that group.

Nothing else you can do.

No matter what you do in this world, there's someone who won't like it.

There's people who don't like this post I'm writing right now.
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I'm going to stipulate for the record, that I don't like your post, but only to provide further proof to the point you were making that someone, somewhere, was always going to not like your post. ;-)

 
People dont want "realistic" mechanics, they want "plausible" mechanics.

Some rules (even if they are hypernatural) that get applied over the whole gameworld.

Example: the way magic is cast in the Harry Potter saga. It not realistic but has a very defined ruleset. Characters in the books use magic then in a plausible way.

When certain parts of the world break those rules, just for a specific "fun" effect, thats whats putting off people.

And there are no "fun" mechanics. The game can only be fun as a whole. A mechanic that works perfect in a jump and run game will not be fun in a WWII shooter.

 
I agree with the thought of plausibility being applied to realistic. I play a bunch of different genres, (aRPG) Last Epoch, PoE, D3 (I lost my D2 discs or I'd play them instead), (MMORPG) P99, Tera (Survival Crafting) 7D2d, The Forest, Dead Frontier 2 (I know it doesn't have crafting, bite me), (MOBA) LoL, Dota 2, SMITE, (Single Player) Skyrim, more Skyrim, did I mention Skyrim?

Playability for me personally is does the game feel like what it's supposed to be. Is there mechanics in it that I can enjoy exploring either solo or with friends. Will I have fun breaking stuff (GMod) or pulling off insane head shots (CS:S / GO). (Can I build my empire more efficiently and increase my output while defending it (Factorio).

7D2D is portrayed as a survival horde crafting game. Supplies should be scarce, hordes should exist and be teeming to gnaw your face off. Anything after that is a mixed results bonus which players can opt in or out of via modders.

 
Well, I'll walk right into Morloc's trap and comment....
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It's not my trap, it's Admiral Ackbar's...err...wait, no...I mean.....

Now look what you've done!....I've posted here! Possible, escape is not! Doomed am I.

Wars do not make one great (except sometimes), but if you want to see fun realism in a game....play Rimworld, yes!

Read the tragic story of Min will you.

No, wait, there is another.......sale! Morloc's Rimwold stock climbs!

Oh, and p.s. ....go spam-crafting!!...Woot!

-Morloc

 
People dont want "realistic" mechanics, they want "plausible" mechanics.Some rules (even if they are hypernatural) that get applied over the whole gameworld.

Example: the way magic is cast in the Harry Potter saga. It not realistic but has a very defined ruleset. Characters in the books use magic then in a plausible way.

When certain parts of the world break those rules, just for a specific "fun" effect, thats whats putting off people.

And there are no "fun" mechanics. The game can only be fun as a whole. A mechanic that works perfect in a jump and run game will not be fun in a WWII shooter.
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First let me say that you make a very valid argument.

Plausible vs Realistic.

Yup I can understand where you're coming from.

The problem I have with your statement, at least for now, is that 7DTD is in Alpha.

We still don't have:

- Reason for Virus

- Plot or any storyline

- Defined parameters

- Beta version of the game where TFP says "Yeah this is the game."

Right now everything is up in the air.

I'd say your post isn't wrong in any way, it's just early.

I'm going to stipulate for the record, that I don't like your post, but only to provide further proof to the point you were making that someone, somewhere, was always going to not like your post. ;-)
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Hahaha yeah.

1SLMOi5.gif


 
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@warmer All that is true, but my question would be what system would replace zombies breaking into concrete? It's a game mechanic to give the player a threat. It's not to combat realism. It's just a part of the game. If they couldnt do the concrete, then you'd be 100% safe. Is that the end of the game? Once realism is reached, you win? That's a big part i'm having trouble understanding from the point of view from a non realismer (yes that's a word... now.) Once that line is crossed, its over, in this game... And i'm not calling you out for your post. Just using it as a reference. Maybe you do or maybe you dont know why this type of system would be wanted or not. Just getting view points. :)
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Why has nobody mentioned.. CRAFTING TIMES!?
*Insert Smug Sentence Here
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The escalation of durability in materials is an attempt at better gameplay (progression etc) through realism. As mentioned earlier, realism can either harm or complement gameplay and as many have said if realism harms gameplay it is obviously not an option. AFAIK none ever said or wanted that in these forums. So zombies destroying blocks is a necessary compromisation because as you said, a large part of gameplay will become meaningless.

It's really simple, just use common sense. Some examples:

-Loot timers: the game didn't use to have loot timers. Loot timers are a realistic element that also complements gameplay. If loot timers were more like 3-5 minutes, like they would be in real life, they would harm gameplay instead.

-Crafting times: It's in the name. Crafting actually takes time (and requires many realistic parts). Again a realistic element that complements gameplay. If crafting times were equivalent to real life crafting times, they would harm gameplay instead.

-Inventory "weight" system in A17: It is an attempt at better gameplay using realism. They didn't pull the concept of "weight" out of their head. Gravity/mass/physics is a party of the game's universe. If weight was identical to real life weight a whole part of the game (building for example), would be gone.

That's why I keep saying - when people talk about realism in video games, they are not talking about making things identical with real life. They are talking about plausibility/believability within the game, which is a good thing when it complements gameplay as demonstrated above and by the game itself.

 
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