PC Randomized stats and different tiers

Because honest a couple AR difference is not > than better resistances and more mod slots....
Click to expand...
A couple AR at the high end of armor is .. times five for all slots, 10 AR. The difference between 60% and 70% reductions, is actually 25% in terms of actual damage taken. The higher the armor, the more signifant each point becomes.

 
A couple AR at the high end of armor is .. times five for all slots, 10 AR. The difference between 60% and 70% reductions, is actually 25% in terms of actual damage taken. The higher the armor, the more signifant each point becomes.
Click to expand...
I think armor mods increase AR as well, so technically a t6 armor should potentially have more AR when slotted....will check xmls later.

 
What was the armor difference? Because honest a couple AR difference is not > than better resistances and more mod slots....

Keep in mine mods add additional bonuses as well. For weapons, they also increase damage with each mod added.
Click to expand...
and what if they were the same quality? same mod slots. Why does it make ANY sense that a tier 3 item, requiring steel or military fibers and non-craftable parts is worse in ANY way to a tier 2, mass-producable item?

There is NOTHING gained by pushing us to jump through hoop after hoop for the top TIER of item, only for the chance that it is WORSE than the tier below (not quality 1-6....tier 1,2,3, like cloth, leather, military for armors). Nevermind the fact that they CAN be better, the point is that GETTING a worse one, no matter how likely or not that it is to happen, undermines the entire concept and push for top tier items to be so hard to obtain. Arguably, the exact same point can be made for Q6 gear. Finally getting a Q6 item, only to have it be worse than the Q4 or 5 you're already using undermines the entire push to make those items so hard to obtain.

 
I personally think, that every tier should have overlap, but only a little, Quality overlap is fine right now (it make sense a tiny bit, at least from a RP standpoint of possible flaws/damage that isn't fixable)

using light armors as an example (numbers are not from the game but a basic number set I hope makes sense)

Padded-Cloth chest Q1-6 AR range of 6-9

Leather Chest Q1-6 AR range of 9-12

Military jacket Q1-6 AR range of 12-15

Each one has a in tier range of exactly 3 between the weakest and the strongest, yet each tier has the potential to be the weakest of its tier level (A Q6 Military jacket could be AR 12, which is the same as your God rolled Q3 Leather chest's AR12)

None of this is done with proper in-game math or xml files (I don't know how to view those honestly, so everything is self made examples)

 
I have to say pictures or it didn't happen with a q6 armor piece being worse than a q4. And you're missing mod slots, which add things like armor, mobility, noise reduction, stamina reduction, extra storage space, heat/cold reductions, etc.

 
I like the idea of having random stats. It makes it worth it to keep crafting/looking for gear even when you find Q6 stuff. The problem I'm having is very bad luck when it comes to armor. I'm going with a heavy armor build currently. I'm wearing between Q3 and Q4 Iron Armor and can't find anything better. I crafted a set of Q5 Iron Armor and it was all worse. I'm finding Steel Armor while looting and from the trader but it is still worse. I understand why the different levels of Iron Armor would be better or worse but I would think that steel armor would automatically be better. Doesn't seem like much of a reason to get steel armor over iron armor if it will be the same armor rating. I could be mistaken and maybe I'm just having a bad set of armors to compare. Is anyone else having the same or better luck than I am currently?
Click to expand...
Okay here is data from the XMLs for comparison sake:

Iron Helmet Armor:

Code: 
<item name="armorIronHelmet">
<property name="Extends" value="armorIronMaster" param1="CustomIcon"/>
<property name="Tags" value="head,armor,armorHead,heavyArmor,heavyArmorPenalty,canHaveCosmetic,heavyArmorDeg"/>
<property name="EquipSlot" value="Head"/>
<effect_group>
	<passive_effect name="ModSlots" operation="base_set" value="1,1,2,2,3,4" tier="1,2,3,4,5,6"/>
	<passive_effect name="ModPowerBonus" operation="base_add" value="300" tags="EconomicValue"/>
	<passive_effect name="ElementalDamageResist" operation="base_add" value="5" tags="toxic"/>
	<passive_effect name="PhysicalDamageResist" operation="base_add" value="10.3,14"/>
	<passive_effect name="ElementalDamageResist" operation="base_add" value="-1" tags="head,heat,electrical"/>
	<passive_effect name="DegradationMax" operation="base_set" value="400,800" tier="1,6"/>
	<passive_effect name="DegradationPerUse" operation="base_set" value="1"/>

	<passive_effect name="Mobility" operation="perc_add" value="-.06"/>
	<passive_effect name="StaminaChangeOT" operation="perc_add" value="-.045" tags="walking"/>
	<passive_effect name="StaminaChangeOT" operation="perc_add" value="-.09" tags="running"/>
	<display_value name="dStaminaChangeOT" value="-.9"/>
	<passive_effect name="NoiseMultiplier" operation="perc_add" value=".2"/><display_value name="dNoiseMultiplier" value=".2"/>
	<passive_effect name="BuffResistance" operation="base_add" value=".12,.148" tags="buffInfectionCatch,buffInjuryBleeding,buffInjuryStunned01"/><passive_effect name="BuffResistance" operation="base_add" value=".03" tags="buffInfectionCatch"/><passive_effect name="BuffResistance" operation="base_add" value=".01" tags="buffInjuryBleeding"/>
</effect_group>
Steel Helmet Armor:

Code: 
<item name="armorSteelHelmet">
<property name="Extends" value="armorSteelMaster" param1="CustomIcon"/>
<property name="Tags" value="head,armor,armorHead,heavyArmor,heavyArmorPenalty,canHaveCosmetic,heavyArmorDeg"/>
<property name="EquipSlot" value="Head"/>
<effect_group>
	<passive_effect name="ModSlots" operation="base_set" value="1,1,2,2,3,4" tier="1,2,3,4,5,6"/>
	<passive_effect name="ModPowerBonus" operation="base_add" value="300" tags="EconomicValue"/>
	<passive_effect name="PhysicalDamageResist" operation="base_add" value="11.8,16"/>
	<passive_effect name="ElementalDamageResist" operation="base_add" value="-1" tags="head,heat,electrical"/>
	<passive_effect name="DegradationMax" operation="base_set" value="500,1000" tier="1,6"/>
	<passive_effect name="DegradationPerUse" operation="base_set" value="1"/>

	<passive_effect name="Mobility" operation="perc_add" value="-.06"/>
	<passive_effect name="StaminaChangeOT" operation="perc_add" value="-.045" tags="walking"/>
	<passive_effect name="StaminaChangeOT" operation="perc_add" value="-.09" tags="running"/>
	<display_value name="dStaminaChangeOT" value="-.9"/>
	<passive_effect name="NoiseMultiplier" operation="perc_add" value=".2"/><display_value name="dNoiseMultiplier" value=".2"/>
	<passive_effect name="BuffResistance" operation="base_add" value=".135,.167" tags="buffInfectionCatch,buffInjuryBleeding,buffInjuryStunned01"/><passive_effect name="BuffResistance" operation="base_add" value=".04" tags="buffInfectionCatch"/><passive_effect name="BuffResistance" operation="base_add" value=".02" tags="buffInjuryBleeding"/>
</effect_group
Key takeaways:

Iron: Physical Damage Resist Range of 10.3 to 14 (not effected by quality; mod bonus not considered)

Steel: Physical Damage Resist Range of 11.8 to 16 (not effected by quality; mod bonus not considered)

Iron: Durability of 400 to 800 (from q1 to q6; mod bonus not considered)

Steel: Durability of 500 to 1000 (from q1 to q6; mod bonus not considered)

Iron: Infection/Bleed/Stun Resistance of .12 to .148 (not effected by quality; also there does appear to be a secondary bonus value on top of this value for Infection/Bleed Resistance)

Steel: Infection/Bleed/Stun Resistance of .135 to .167 (not effected by quality; also there does appear to be a secondary bonus value on top of this value for Infection/Injury Resistance which is notably higher on steel vs iron)

Conclusion:

Steel is superior to iron in 4 different statistics although there is some overlap. Only 1 of the 4 statistics is effected by quality. All in all, it isn't horrible could use some minor adjustments with the overlap. Also, it probably wouldn't hurt if damage resistance was affected by quality. For example,

Iron: Physical Damage Resist Range of 10.3 to 14 (from q1 to q6) (added quality ranged)

Steel: Physical Damage Resist Range of 12.3 to 16 (from q1 to q6) (+0.5 adjustment & added quality range)

Iron: Durability of 400 to 800 (from q1 to q6)

Steel: Durability of 600 to 1000 (from q1 to q6) (+100 adjustment)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I wonder who is making this stuff up "in the other thread".Are these people even talking about A18 or some mod?

And yes, armor rating can not scale very much.

We had exactly that in A17 and everyone agreed that low quality armor with low perks was useless.

If people are suggesting to make early armor useless again then... sorry. Not happening.
Click to expand...

Pardon me quoting you but wanted to put this out there and this thread nudged my memory to finally do it. I'd love it if we could get some kind of in game indicator of what the range on items is. it's hugely frustrating having to figure out yourself a lot of the time by digging into XML's, and having an idea of just how good an item si helps figure out weather it's worth working your butt off doing trader quests to try and get a better example, or weather your far enough up the random stats distribution to make it unlikly enough to be worth skipping.

 
Pardon me quoting you but wanted to put this out there and this thread nudged my memory to finally do it. I'd love it if we could get some kind of in game indicator of what the range on items is. it's hugely frustrating having to figure out yourself a lot of the time by digging into XML's, and having an idea of just how good an item si helps figure out weather it's worth working your butt off doing trader quests to try and get a better example, or weather your far enough up the random stats distribution to make it unlikly enough to be worth skipping.
Click to expand...
That's a great point. Would be nice to have some type of indicator that you got a max roll (or close enough). 😎👍

 
OK I know....RNG, but my observation is that I have yet to craft an item that had better stats than the one I was already using that I had found, assuming equal tiers.

Example: found a tier 5 Pistol on latest MP play-through. I can now craft tier 5 Pistols and have crafted at least a dozen by now.....none of them were as good as that first one I found.

 
That's a great point. Would be nice to have some type of indicator that you got a max roll (or close enough).
Click to expand...
Yeah. Like a color code, or number 1 to 6, or something like that. :welcome:

 
Yeah. Like a color code, or number 1 to 6, or something like that. :welcome:
Click to expand...
You might have something there! What if...we had this value called "Quality", that helped us determine if equipment was better or worse?

 
OK I know....RNG, but my observation is that I have yet to craft an item that had better stats than the one I was already using that I had found, assuming equal tiers.
Example: found a tier 5 Pistol on latest MP play-through. I can now craft tier 5 Pistols and have crafted at least a dozen by now.....none of them were as good as that first one I found.
Click to expand...
Well... how many pistols did you loot before?

You probably already have one of the best T5 pistols. That is a very real probability.

A lot of what I read in this thread is anecdotal and filled with bias.

You people often don't realize how many weapons you scrapped/sold before you finally found a gun of the same tier that was better...

So when you craft, it is basicially only a... what? 10% that the weapon is better?

Try and sort out what could cause your percieved injustice. Because I nearly all T6 I found were better than any lower tier (and with mod slots all were better). And crafted weapons are generally worse than looted once, because you have looted like 10 of the weapon until you have enough skillpoints to specc into weaponcrafting.

So you most likely already have a pretty top tier gun.

And yes the only benefit is that you can scrap bad guns, craft lvl 5 and sell them for a decent, but still pretty low price.

This is the problem with weapons beeing in every house. Make ammo more common, harshly reduce weapondroprate (by about 90%) and remove the chance of weapons from certain loot containers (why in the world would every household have 3 weapons in their little hideout?) or better yet: no shotgun messiah crates in normal buildings.

 
This is the problem with weapons beeing in every house. Make ammo more common, harshly reduce weapondroprate (by about 90%) and remove the chance of weapons from certain loot containers (why in the world would every household have 3 weapons in their little hideout?) or better yet: no shotgun messiah crates in normal buildings.
Click to expand...
Lol this would be nuts and totally ♥♥♥♥ up the balance of loot progression AND the number of stuff you can craft because of a lack of parts, you'd have playthroughs where you wouldn't even find the weapon you're looking for let alone in a decent quality.

 
Lol this would be nuts and totally ♥♥♥♥ up the balance of loot progression AND the number of stuff you can craft because of a lack of parts, you'd have playthroughs where you wouldn't even find the weapon you're looking for let alone in a decent quality.
Click to expand...
and this would be a bad thing... how exactly? :D

Fine you can have Q1 guns that you can scrap. But only military bases and T3+ should have Q3+ weapons.

Otherwise, as stated, its simply a lootershooter where crafting doesn't matter (I still don't get why you need to scrap guns to make guns... but whatever)

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top