PC Random Stat Implementation

Vik, save your breadth. No one is disagreeing with you lol...

This is the issue:

It just feels bad when you're hoping and hoping for an upgrade, you manage to find a T6 of the item type you need and start to get excited, then you check the stats and see it's crap.
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The thought is that color (labeling) is misleading. Especially because historically the colors were used as definite (not maybe) indicators that one item is better then another. In A18 this is no longer the case in some instances.

 
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If everyone unanimously agreed that mod slots is the defining variable of an items quality this thread probably wouldnt be here.
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But... I disagree with you? o_o :D Like yeah its definatly a part of it... but the better stats are pretty defining as well...

A "perfect" T6 can make DOUBLE the dmg a T1 can do... that is pretty defining for me... more than having one more modslot :D

I'm sorry that I can't let this go... but I have no clue as to what the problem with this is, now that we KNOW that higher tiers have better stats... if you want, lets talk in a discord or something... because I can not understand this, even though I want to... and its driving me mad :D

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Vik, save your breadth. No one is disagreeing with you lol...
This is the issue:

The thought is that color (labeling) is misleading. Especially because historically the colors were used as definite (not maybe) indicators that one item is better then another. In A18 this is no longer the case in some instances.
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Its not misleading... it is in 95% of cases still an upgrade. But with the rest i can agree :D

 
But... I disagree with you? o_o :D Like yeah its definatly a part of it... but the better stats are pretty defining as well...A "perfect" T6 can make DOUBLE the dmg a T1 can do... that is pretty defining for me... more than having one more modslot :D

I'm sorry that I can't let this go... but I have no clue as to what the problem with this is, now that we KNOW that higher tiers have better stats... if you want, lets talk in a discord or something... because I can not understand this, even though I want to... and its driving me mad :D

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Its not misleading... it is in 95% of cases still an upgrade. But with the rest i can agree :D
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Sorry it's not worth my time honestly. Your way overthinking what is being questioned here. I think my fingers are done lol...

 
but... its not.If you said you wanted a better visual aid with comparing two items I would agree...

But they ARE better. Just not every weapon in every aspect. I... I am lost for words here.

HIGHER TIERS HAVE HIGHER STATS.

I am not good with exel... but do you not know what a bell curve is? It is a diagram of probability.

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Everyone here gets this. And it isn't the problem. You look at the mechanism behind the game not at the game. For a player it isn't important to know whether the weapon he got in a box had a better chance for good values aka came from a better loot table. For a player at that moment the actual stats of the weapon he found are important. Example:

Say you find a q3 axe with 50 block damage. On another occasion you find a q4 axe with 50 block damage. In neither case is it important that the second axe had a better loot table to choose its block damage from. You could even argue that a roleplaying player should not even know about the internal mechanisms how his weapon is roled, all he really needs to know is how to better his chances to get good weapons.

There is another problem here: If the bell curve works you find lets say 4 q3 axes for every q4 axe. If on average one of those q3 axes has better stats than the q4 axe, the subjective but wrong impression would be that q4 is really worse than q3. This wouldn't be a problem if the color code was strictly equivalent to the number of mod slots. But it isn't at the moment, q1 and q2 have the same number of slots, q3 and q4 also.

There are two solutions to the second problem: Either they throw away two of the colors. Or they tie another stat to color so that a better color means a better value in that stat. In my opinion durability would work best for that (EDIT: ...because every item with quality has that stat at the moment). An internal loot table won't work.

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Don't get me wrong. I do like the system as it is now, with overlapping stat values. I like that you can have a q6 weapon with average damage but a a magazine the size of Manhattan. Or q1 weapon with fantastic damage but you need to reload every 4 shots. It just needs a better comparison UI and the color codes have to have a significance (outside internal loot tables).

 
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Everyone here gets this. And it isn't the problem. You look at the mechanism behind the game not at the game. For a player it isn't important to know whether the weapon he got in a box had a better chance for good values aka came from a better loot table. For a player at that moment the actual stats of the weapon he found are important. Example:
Say you find a q3 axe with 50 block damage. On another occasion you find a q4 axe with 50 block damage. In neither case is it important that the second axe had a better loot table to choose its block damage from. You could even argue that a roleplaying player should not even know about the internal mechanisms how his weapon is roled, all he really needs to know is how to better his chances to get good weapons.

There is another problem here: If the bell curve works you find lets say 4 q3 axes for every q4 axe. If on average one of those q3 axes has better stats than the q4 axe, the subjective but wrong impression would be that q4 is really worse than q3. This wouldn't be a problem if the color code was strictly equivalent to the number of mod slots. But it isn't at the moment, q1 and q2 have the same number of slots, q3 and q4 also.

There are two solutions to the second problem: Either they throw away two of the colors. Or they tie another stat to color so that a better color means a better value in that stat. In my opinion durability would work best for that. An internal loot table won't work.

-------

Don't get me wrong. I do like the system as it is now, with overlapping stat values. I like that you can have a q6 weapon with average damage but a a magazine the size of Manhattan. Or q1 weapon with fantastic damage but you need to reload every 4 shots. It just needs a better comparison UI and the color codes have to have a significance (outside internal loot tables).
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So is it really just the better visibility? Because that was something I agreed with like 10 posts ago... but ppl said multiple times that higher tiers are only different because of modslots...

So here again:

I agree that there should be a better visual indication of how good the weapon is. Maybe make it like "60 (-3)" with the () indicating the base value of that tier. So 63 is the base value and you can have "75(+12)" next to it.

100% agreed.

 
DamageRounds per minute/attacksperminute(for melee)

Magazine Size

Range

Durability

Armor, effect resistance, sound detection, staminausage, mobility and durability for armor

+ Modslots

Sooo... yeah :D
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huu i thought i was only damage!

but maybe sometimes some states would be lowered but another would be higher

like a spear may have much less durability but much more damage!

etc

 
huu i thought i was only damage!
but maybe sometimes some states would be lowered but another would be higher

like a spear may have much less durability but much more damage!

etc
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that is exactly what I meant by weapons having "character" now. Do I want my T2 Shotgun with 20 dgm (normal is ~8-11) that has only 4 shots or do I want my T6 shotgun with 14 dmg with 13 shots, faster rate of fire and better range with 4 mods?

I gave another "fix" to this problem ppl are having:

Make every tier have a fixed overall stat that is always better than lower tiers (so no overlap, but still varying within the tiers) so lets say 300 + Tier * 50.

T1 Weapons would now have 350 statpoints(+-30) to distribute randomly, while T6 would have 600 statpoints.

But make the distribution even more varied then it is now.

One T1 weapon that put all into mag size has now 50 rounds but nearly no damage and fires slow, while a more balanced T6 has a lower magazine but still overall it is always better.

Would that fix your guy's problem?

 
that is exactly what I meant by weapons having "character" now. Do I want my T2 Shotgun with 20 dgm (normal is ~8-11) that has only 4 shots or do I want my T6 shotgun with 14 dmg with 13 shots, faster rate of fire and better range with 4 mods?
I gave another "fix" to this problem ppl are having:

Make every tier have a fixed overall stat that is always better than lower tiers (so no overlap, but still varying within the tiers) so lets say 300 + Tier * 50.

T1 Weapons would now have 350 statpoints(+-30) to distribute randomly, while T6 would have 600 statpoints.

But make the distribution even more varied then it is now.

One T1 weapon that put all into mag size has now 50 rounds but nearly no damage and fires slow, while a more balanced T6 has a lower magazine but still overall it is always better.

Would that fix your guy's problem?
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i was just a idea

 
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