PC Random Stat Implementation

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Psychodabble

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I think adding random stats to items is generally a good idea, but I'm not sure about the way it's currently implemented.

My experience has been that even though most of my items are between yellow and blue, it's really hard to find upgrades. Even when the Tier of the items I'm finding is higher, the stats are worse than what I've already got. I find myself having to stare at the numbers trying to figure out whether the new item is actually an upgrade or not. Mods make this even harder as I have to remember whether that particular item's stats are being boosted from base.

My feeling is that there should be statistical variance WITHIN tiers, but that each tier should be strictly statistically superior to the tier below it. That way I never have to question whether the blue spear is an upgrade over the green spear.

 
69 views and no replies...am I the only one having issues with this?

I find it a little weird that out of the four T6 machetes I've found, not one of them has better stats than my T4. Am I alone?

 
They can be better your just finding crap ones, a good roll on the tier below can be near the middle ground for the tier above.

 
I dont have a problem with the random stats. I find it a bit more interesting to have variance. You can now have moments where you need to choose between like beastly damage t4 or t5 or a t6 that I can squeeze another mod onto. It means you can possibly still find something better for a situation at any point in the playthrough instead of "Welp found a purple *blank*, game over, never have to look for one of those again"

I see that as more of a plus, than the minor inconvenience of having to compare and choose. Which might become easier with polish, maybe a more intuitive stats window.

*Edit Also what Scyris said, in general the higher tiers are better from what I have seen. Even if it can happen the other way around.

 
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I dont have a problem with the random stats. I find it a bit more interesting to have variance. You can now have moments where you need to choose between like beastly damage t4 or t5 or a t6 that I can squeeze another mod onto. It means you can possibly still find something better for a situation at any point in the playthrough instead of "Welp found a purple *blank*, game over, never have to look for one of those again"
I see that as more of a plus, than the minor inconvenience of having to compare and choose. Which might become easier with polish, maybe a more intuitive stats window.

*Edit Also what Scyris said, in general the higher tiers are better from what I have seen. Even if it can happen the other way around.
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I feel like you've missed my point.

I think there SHOULD be variance within Tier...that way it's not game over as soon as you find T6...unless it happens to be a perfectly rolled T6, you can still hunt for a better one.

But I think the variance across tiers is too wild atm. IMO, it feels bad to have to compare so many numbers to figure out which item to use in this type of game. I think the tier system was great because it let you know at a glance whether what you'd found was better than what you have...I have a yellow axe, oh good, there's a green one! Now it's like...hmm, which one is actually better? I don't have time for that when I'm in the middle of a Zed infested dungeon. It just takes me out of the game for too long trying to min/max instead of trying to survive.

What Scyris said does not reflect my experience at all. I'm running a Perception build with maxed Lucky Looter, so finding T6 is not a super rare occurance for me...what has been EXTREMELY rare is finding T6 with better stats than my T4/5s. In fact, I was just able to upgrade my spear from T4 to T6, but I found 8 or 9 spears that weren't close to being better between Ts 5 and 6 first. That feels bad, IMO.

 
Disagree.

Let me show you in numbers:

Lets say each stat is the quality of the item x10, with a variance of 10

so

T1: 0-20

T2: 10-30

T3: 20-40

T4: 30-50

T5: 40-60

T6: 50-70

If I find a T5 with 60 and a T6 with 50, the T6 still has more mods.

This is a REAL choice you have to make.

Do you want more stats or more utility.

I have an ak with incredibly lucky damage, but sucky magazine and rpm. But since AK ammo is so rare, I like it packing a punch more than the other stuff.

I prefer my T2 AK over all T4 AKs I have found yet.

This way it kinda became my personal weapon. It is the outsider that is still special to me :D

Same with the junkturret.

I have two t4s one with good dps and one with better range and speed. I have the dps one at home at the entrance and the range and speed I take out in the world to stunlock enemies.

Having these variations make the weapon special.

I would like the range to be even greater in fact. So a T1 might have that 1/300 chance of having more dps than a T5 but no mods and the rest is worse... and I'd still use that special weapon.

 
I feel like you've missed my point.
I think there SHOULD be variance within Tier...that way it's not game over as soon as you find T6...unless it happens to be a perfectly rolled T6, you can still hunt for a better one.

But I think the variance across tiers is too wild atm. IMO, it feels bad to have to compare so many numbers to figure out which item to use in this type of game. I think the tier system was great because it let you know at a glance whether what you'd found was better than what you have...I have a yellow axe, oh good, there's a green one! Now it's like...hmm, which one is actually better? I don't have time for that when I'm in the middle of a Zed infested dungeon. It just takes me out of the game for too long trying to min/max instead of trying to survive.

What Scyris said does not reflect my experience at all. I'm running a Perception build with maxed Lucky Looter, so finding T6 is not a super rare occurance for me...what has been EXTREMELY rare is finding T6 with better stats than my T4/5s. In fact, I was just able to upgrade my spear from T4 to T6, but I found 8 or 9 spears that weren't close to being better between Ts 5 and 6 first. That feels bad, IMO.
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No, I didnt miss your point. I just dont agree with it. The variance being "too wild" is not my experience and if it was it wouldnt bother me. And I do not feel that glancing at the stat window for each item takes so long, it only takes a few moments. Even taking off all the mods first which might go away with a more polished stat window *base(modded) damage shown.

 
Disagree.Let me show you in numbers:

Lets say each stat is the quality of the item x10, with a variance of 10

so

T1: 0-20

T2: 10-30

T3: 20-40

T4: 30-50

T5: 40-60

T6: 50-70

If I find a T5 with 60 and a T6 with 50, the T6 still has more mods.

This is a REAL choice you have to make.

Do you want more stats or more utility.

I have an ak with incredibly lucky damage, but sucky magazine and rpm. But since AK ammo is so rare, I like it packing a punch more than the other stuff.

I prefer my T2 AK over all T4 AKs I have found yet.

This way it kinda became my personal weapon. It is the outsider that is still special to me :D

Same with the junkturret.

I have two t4s one with good dps and one with better range and speed. I have the dps one at home at the entrance and the range and speed I take out in the world to stunlock enemies.

Having these variations make the weapon special.

I would like the range to be even greater in fact. So a T1 might have that 1/300 chance of having more dps than a T5 but no mods and the rest is worse... and I'd still use that special weapon.
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I understand the concept, it just feels out of place to me in a survival game. The choice doesn't really feel that relevant to me...I want weapons & tools with the highest damage, armor with the highest armor, and the most mod slots possible. I prioritize filling slots with mods that boost those stats, so having more than 2 is basically just bonus since there aren't so many direct stat boosting mods.

I guess it's nice that you develop special relations with your gear, but I just want to equip the best one and scrap/sell the other one.

But I suppose that is the point of the thread to see how others fee about it, so agree to disagree.

 
Disagree.Let me show you in numbers:

Lets say each stat is the quality of the item x10, with a variance of 10

so

T1: 0-20

T2: 10-30

T3: 20-40

T4: 30-50

T5: 40-60

T6: 50-70

If I find a T5 with 60 and a T6 with 50, the T6 still has more mods.

This is a REAL choice you have to make.

Do you want more stats or more utility.

I have an ak with incredibly lucky damage, but sucky magazine and rpm. But since AK ammo is so rare, I like it packing a punch more than the other stuff.

I prefer my T2 AK over all T4 AKs I have found yet.

This way it kinda became my personal weapon. It is the outsider that is still special to me :D

Same with the junkturret.

I have two t4s one with good dps and one with better range and speed. I have the dps one at home at the entrance and the range and speed I take out in the world to stunlock enemies.

Having these variations make the weapon special.

I would like the range to be even greater in fact. So a T1 might have that 1/300 chance of having more dps than a T5 but no mods and the rest is worse... and I'd still use that special weapon.
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Yep, totally agree

 
No, I didnt miss your point. I just dont agree with it. The variance being "too wild" is not my experience and if it was it wouldnt bother me. And I do not feel that glancing at the stat window for each item takes so long, it only takes a few moments. Even taking off all the mods first which might go away with a more polished stat window *base(modded) damage shown.
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Well, anecdotal experience is anecdotal. You, Scyris, and I have clearly had different experiences in the stats that we've found.

A more intuitive comparison would defenintely help the issue, but I feel like the colored Tier system is the MOST intuitive way possible.

I guess the thing that confused me was your example of finding your first T6 item and never needing to find another. That made it seem like you didn't get what I was saying, because I don't want that to be the case either. Significant variance within tier would mean that unless you get insanely lucky on the first T6 you find, you would still be able to continue hunting for an upgrade.

 
Well, anecdotal experience is anecdotal. You, Scyris, and I have clearly had different experiences in the stats that we've found.
A more intuitive comparison would defenintely help the issue, but I feel like the colored Tier system is the MOST intuitive way possible.

I guess the thing that confused me was your example of finding your first T6 item and never needing to find another. That made it seem like you didn't get what I was saying, because I don't want that to be the case either. Significant variance within tier would mean that unless you get insanely lucky on the first T6 you find, you would still be able to continue hunting for an upgrade.
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Well, you dont see it the same way as me for sure. Just because there would be another purple with only slightly better stats does not mean I would care to hunt for another one. I wouldnt feel the need to find the "best one" only.

Without a decent variance, the outcome is the same as my example imo. I am saying that is why I dont feel like there is too much variance as it is now. I like it how it is.

 
Much as I love random stats, I'd prefer much less overlap. I think it totally defeats the purpose of having tiers. If we need to check stats anyway we might as well just drop the color coding and just compare stats. I think having a visual color guide to quality should mean something besides "how many mod slots" when that means we really only need 4 tiers, not 6. Add to it having to remove mods to check and it's just a hassle I'd prefer not to deal with.

I know I plan to mod it out once things hit stable for my own games and the server I often play on mentioned plans to change it as well.

 
Much as I love random stats, I'd prefer much less overlap. I think it totally defeats the purpose of having tiers. If we need to check stats anyway we might as well just drop the color coding and just compare stats. I think having a visual color guide to quality should mean something besides "how many mod slots" when that means we really only need 4 tiers, not 6. Add to it having to remove mods to check and it's just a hassle I'd prefer not to deal with.
I know I plan to mod it out once things hit stable for my own games and the server I often play on mentioned plans to change it as well.
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Ya the color coding doesnt really mesh well with the new random stat system, rethinking that aspect might not grate the players senses as much regarding item quality/ stat variance.

 
Much as I love random stats, I'd prefer much less overlap. I think it totally defeats the purpose of having tiers. If we need to check stats anyway we might as well just drop the color coding and just compare stats. I think having a visual color guide to quality should mean something besides "how many mod slots" when that means we really only need 4 tiers, not 6. Add to it having to remove mods to check and it's just a hassle I'd prefer not to deal with.
I know I plan to mod it out once things hit stable for my own games and the server I often play on mentioned plans to change it as well.
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but they ARE overall better... if you find 10 T3 and 10 T4 the T4 wins every time. not to mention the modslot.

You now just have so see... do I want that T4 with 3 modslots and a high rpm (good for the smg or M60) or do I want the T2 with incredible damage but will miss a modslot.

Honestly to me, this makes looting much more fun, since you can find an awesome weapon early, but aren't garantueed a great weapon later when you would find T6 constantly.

THIS is a change that implements replayability that I agree with. I normally dislike it when they try this, but here every weapon has its own personality so no playthrough is the same.

I am actually PRO even wilder variation (lower chance of it happening but higher possible diviation from the norm stat)

 
It is absolutely possible to replace your T6 weapon with a better T5.

There is simply a very low chance of that happening.

If any T6 would be guaranteed to be better than any T5 this would be super boring - just like in A17.

Back then, once you had a QL6 every QL5 and lower was automatically useless.

The tier/colour is a general indicator and is working well.

 
Don't mind if a T5 is occasionally better than a T6, but a T4 should never be better than a T6. That to me is just a balancing issue where they need to cap the variance a bit more if you know what I mean.

 
Don't mind if a T5 is occasionally better than a T6, but a T4 should never be better than a T6. That to me is just a balancing issue where they need to cap the variance a bit more if you know what I mean.
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As an example:

T4:

Dmg:39

Magsize:6

RPM:120

Range:20

3 mods

T6:

Dmg:32

Magsize:9

RPM: 180

Range: 28

5 mods

I can not see how this is unbalanced.

I would still prefer the T4 one. Even tho the DPS of T6 is far superior.

This is awesome. I want a T1 to have a 1/4000 chance to have higher dmg than a T6 standart.

It gives that weapon a character.

"This is my boomstick! It has a small magazine, fires slow and range is 5m, but whatever I hit dies!"

 
The variance is what makes this work.

There needs to be this rare chance of a low QL weapon that has this one stat that you personally favour. So you may end up using it instead of a weapon that is better in overall stats.

That is the goal, not a bug.

If the variance is small then you look at one number and know everything relevant about this weapon. (like in A16/17)

That's 100% wasted potential. How could anyone want that?

 
Are the stats independently variable, or depending on each other? As in, can you roll a max on every stat, or will having one stat high mean others will be lower?

Somehow I'd like it better if a T2 having a great damage would necessarily come with a drawback, like small mag or slow fire rate. That way the T3 would most of the time (maybe even always) be "better", but if you're interested in only one stat, you'd be getting tradeoffs.

Borderlands did something along those lines with their "manufacturer parts" for guns and shields, manufacturer parts adding their specific type of stat for the gun, like +accuracy but you would only have one of each part per item of course.

 
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