Rad Remover Mod vs The Hunter Mod

[zztong]

It seems the Rad Remove Mod and The Hunter Mod are mutually exclusive. I'm not really sure why that would be. I mean they don't affect the same creatures, unless somebody is going to irradiate the animals. Would you say this is a bug or by design?

 

[Jost Amman]

Yeah, sounds weird to me.

 

[theFlu]

Most of the mods are in groups: "magazine extenders", "handles", "blades". This is a bit of a weirder grouping, it doesn't feel like a "physically restrained" group, but that's because there's no logic to the parts ...

 

[Jost Amman]

Well, if I was to pick a category for those two mods it would be something like:

• Hunter Mod: bonus vs. enemy type group
• Rad Remover Mod: buff stultifiers group

So they'd be in different groups anyway.

 

[theFlu]

Wouldn't a "bonus against radiated" be in the first as well?
That's what the gloves kinda do, at least a couple of them, "bonus vs undead" in preacher and bonus vs "glowies" in nomad - "bonus vs animals" is quite similar alternative? Sure the other gloves are bonuses for damage types but the game can't be accused for consistency in any case

 

[Jost Amman]

That's what the gloves kinda do, at least a couple of them, "bonus vs undead" in preacher and bonus vs "glowies" in nomad - "bonus vs animals" is quite similar alternative? Sure the other gloves are bonuses for damage types but the game can't be accused for consistency in any case

I see you're having a lot of fun, but at least do it while making sense, please.
The topic is about weapon mods and how they go into conflict with each other, not about armor/clothing bonuses.

Wouldn't a "bonus against radiated" be in the first as well?

No. Why?

Radiated is a zombie with an effect on it, the mod removes the "effect" from the zombie.
The hunter mod gives a bonus vs. animals, it doesn't remove an effect.

If you'll ever find a radiated animal I guess you could stack the two mods bonuses (in my opinion).

 

[theFlu]

The topic is about weapon mods and how they go into conflict with each other, not about armor/clothing bonuses.

The groupings that exist in the game can't be used as examples of groupings that should/could be in the game?
I guess this is another dopamine loop for you?

 

[Treb]

The groupings that exist in the game can't be used as examples of groupings that should/could be in the game?
I guess this is another dopamine loop for you?

You comparison doesn't really make sense though and is based on misunderstanding what the rad remover does.

 

[theFlu]

You comparison doesn't really make sense though.

"Gloves are alternative to one another, and confer bonuses against Either Rads, or Undead"
How is that different to
"Mods that are alternative to one another confer bonuses against Either Rads, or Living"
?

Is anyone taught basic logic anymore?

 

[Riamus]

It seems the Rad Remove Mod and The Hunter Mod are mutually exclusive. I'm not really sure why that would be. I mean they don't affect the same creatures, unless somebody is going to irradiate the animals. Would you say this is a bug or by design?

I've always thought this was a dumb restriction. As you say, they aren't going to stack anyhow unless they plan on adding radiated animals at some point.

 

[Treb]

"Gloves are alternative to one another, and confer bonuses against Either Rads, or Undead"
How is that different to
"Mods that are alternative to one another confer bonuses against Either Rads, or Living"
?

Is anyone taught basic logic anymore?

Once again, the rad remover doesn't apply any bonus, it removes a buff. It doesn't fit your comparison at all.

So why can we equip more than a single mod?

You can be smug all you want, but you're humiliating yourself more than anything.

 

[theFlu]

Once again, the rad remover doesn't apply any bonus, it removes a buff. It doesn't fit your comparison at all.

Removing health from the zombie one way or another are design-wise pretty much the same. A straight damage bonus is different from a dot which is different from a healing reduction; but they're all damage buffs. They are all well suited for stacking where possible, which is why some arbitrary groups are often made - to prevent such stacking, make things into choices.

IF you want to argue that it doesn't "make sense" here, you'd have to point out to things like "which part of a weapon is changed to adjust the damage it does to animals, but not zombies" or "where do you attach a radiation remover on a gun so that it ... 'removes radiation (?)' from whatever you shoot at".

If you try, you probably find you can't, because the items don't make any physical sense anyway - there's no reason to allow (or deny) their stacking from that point of view. The only reason is "damage design".

 

[zztong]

I have made a bug report just in case it isn't intended behavior.

 

[8_Hussars]

Notwithstanding, that this is video game logic and TFPs video game logic at that... I expect its intended behavior.

IMHO, much like a player can not mount two weapon barrel mods (e.g. muzzle break or silencer) at the same time, TFPs chose to not allow a player to mount two "entity affecting" mods at the same time. The hunter mod works against the living (includes PVP?) and the Rad Remover works against radiated undead. I find it easy to reconcile that either/or "entitly affecting" decision tree and see no practical advantage to stacking them in the current weapon mod system.

I use them both for the standard mod damage increase until better mods come along. However, in practical game terms I find, they are both kinda useless overall. The default stealth bonus allows a player to kill most animals easily and Tier 3 weapons kill live animals easily as well, so no need for the Hunter Mod. The Rad Regeneration rate is so slow (~3 HP per second) that the Rad Remover bonus is easily hidden and surpassed by the player's shear DPM potential.

 

[Jost Amman]

TFPs chose to not allow a player to mount two "entity affecting" mods at the same time. The hunter mod works against the living (includes PVP?) and the Rad Remover works against radiated undead.

That is not, however, how they work, is it?

The Hunter Mod only works on animals (it's explained in its description), so I guess it won't give a bonus against bandits when they'll be ready.
The Rad Remover is meant to remove the "Radiated" effect from ANY entity, so, even if currently there are no radiated animals, if they were in the game my guess is they would be affected, and we can make also an educated guess on possible "radiated bandits" (if they'll ever exist).

In any case TFP should remove the stacking block in my humble opinion, since it doesn't make much sense in this case.

 

[zztong]

From the bug report...

"You are right! Upon investigation, we determined there was no reason for these mods to be set up that way. This change should be reflected in the next major patch." -- WretchedDollie

 

[theFlu]

Upon investigation, we determined there was no reason for these mods to be set up that way.

Hah... weird, but oh so fitting.
Quoting myself "the game can't be accused for consistency in any case"; a lot of the design is remains of the "put stuff in, see what works" -development, just getting cemented over time.

 

[8_Hussars]

That is not, however, how they work, is it?

The Hunter Mod only works on animals (it's explained in its description), so I guess it won't give a bonus against bandits when they'll be ready.
The Rad Remover is meant to remove the "Radiated" effect from ANY entity, so, even if currently there are no radiated animals, if they were in the game my guess is they would be affected, and we can make also an educated guess on possible "radiated bandits" (if they'll ever exist).

In any case TFP should remove the stacking block in my humble opinion, since it doesn't make much sense in this case.

This thread is an exercise in pedantic opinion and perception, so fair play to you. ;-)

Regardless, I find it easy to reconcile that either/or "entity affecting" decision tree (alive vs undead). IMHO, there should be two mutually exclusive mods one for use against "live" entities (including animals, players, and bandits) and one one for use against the undead entities. I assumed, the Hunter Mod and Rad Remover were kinda sorta TFPs prototype solution for those.

From the bug report...

"You are right! Upon investigation, we determined there was no reason for these mods to be set up that way. This change should be reflected in the next major patch." -- WretchedDollie

"Hah... weird, but oh so fitting" QFT

Nice job, zztong! GG TFPs, well played.

 

[theFlu]

There's a duty-bound neuron in my head, that keeps insisting me to make a reference to Chesterton's Fence. There, obscure as it may be, I think that neuron should be sated now.