PC "Reinforced cement doesn't downgrade to cement"

Why is that so?What's your balancing goal that is driving that decision?
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I believe players want to be able to build bases again, where you actually have a chance to defend them! Not a 2 minute wonder where it is torn down in the blink of an eye there by making it pointless exercise.

This game has become the ex tower defence to the kill zombies find a trader game.

 
Why is that so?What's your balancing goal that is driving that decision?
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I would say two things.

1) the zombie ai, all zeds seem to prefer pathing to the same weakened block, avoiding other spikes etc. Whereas in A16 zeds were a lot more spread out, so individual blocks while taking damage, didn't have a whole horde beating on them (unless you designed it that way).

2) the horde damage bonus.

It feels like when zombies come rushing as a horde, they go to the same location, and they bash and with the added damage go through blocks like butter.

A few solutions:

1) Don't let all zombies path to the same location :p Maybe not so easy to change, but it would help to spread them out, not everyone pathing exactly the same.

2) Increasing block HP.

3) Reducing block damage.

(4) I like the horde damage bonus tho! But maybe reducing the block damage means keeping the horde bonus brings it up to normal, rather than hot knife through butter :)

/V -

 
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There are easy ways to mod this. Not sure why vanilla needs to be like every other previous alpha.

Once 7 days ships I know that there will be dozens of dedicated servers will any mod you want for the game. So for now, it’s just simple xml edits

Thank you TFP for continuing to support easy mods!!

Once v1 ships I have always been planning out a huge base like those you see in a15/16 but that is actually long lived for years. It’s going to require mods to the game. Things change but with xml we can do anything we want. The base game is amazing. Block dmg is a simple thing to adjust. SMH

 
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Why is that so?What's your balancing goal that is driving that decision?
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Why? I agree that it made little sense when the block downgraded that it magicaly became the last tier block, but considering I felt blocks had too little damage resistance to begin with we should get the same not less.

 
If feral zombies get balanced so that they can deal with A16-style 19000 HP blocks, what happens if even one of them shows up before you have concrete?

This isn't about one block but overall balance.

 
If feral zombies get balanced so that they can deal with A16-style 19000 HP blocks, what happens if even one of them shows up before you have concrete?
This isn't about one block but overall balance.
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Well if the plan was to lower zed block damage then yes, I've got no problem with block HP being lower. I don't seem to recall you guys mentioning that being the plan though.

 
If feral zombies get balanced so that they can deal with A16-style 19000 HP blocks, what happens if even one of them shows up before you have concrete?
This isn't about one block but overall balance.
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This runs counter to the philosophy TFP said they wanted when they implemented the upgrade/downgrade paths in the first place, which was to remove having to break out weaker material blocks in order to replace them with stronger and instead allow upgrading the blocks in place all the way from weakest to strongest.

I agree there's a logic disconnect with contrete --> Rconcrete, but TFP needs to pick a consistent behavior for the blocks. Either you can upgrade through all the various stages from wood to concrete to steel and downgrade along the same path, or they re-separate the base block materials and make them incompatible, i.e. wood can't be turned into cobblestone or concrete or steel, etc.

 
This runs counter to the philosophy TFP said they wanted when they implemented the upgrade/downgrade paths in the first place, which was to remove having to break out weaker material blocks in order to replace them with stronger and instead allow upgrading the blocks in place all the way from weakest to strongest.
I agree there's a logic disconnect with contrete --> Rconcrete, but TFP needs to pick a consistent behavior for the blocks. Either you can upgrade through all the various stages from wood to concrete to steel and downgrade along the same path, or they re-separate the base block materials and make them incompatible, i.e. wood can't be turned into cobblestone or concrete or steel, etc.
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I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Just because you can upgrade it doesn't mean you have to be able to downgrade it.

As a gameplay mechanic being able to upgrade in place is a huge QOL improvement. Having it downgrade is...well that's a huge QOL improvemnet too I guess, since it gave the block more survivability, and of course it's something we got accustomed to.

It still boggles my mind that if I slap down a rebar frame and fill it with concrete, that I don't get reinforced concrete (especially considering the game lets me make the same concrete block without rebar), since rebar is short for reinforcing bar. Realism always needs to take a backseat to gameplay.

 
Second time I see someone say this. Seems to be a MP thing. In SP it works as it always did.https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?97695-Some-clarification-with-wet-concrete-block-vs-rebar
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Hmmm. Come to think of it, it was in MP. Normally I'd make the wet blocks cause I never have enough iron at that stage, but I happened to be replacing a few blocks after horde night, and the trader wasn't open yet to use his mixer to make blocks (nice compromise btw) but I did save some rebar I had looted.

 
I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Just because you can upgrade it doesn't mean you have to be able to downgrade it.As a gameplay mechanic being able to upgrade in place is a huge QOL improvement. Having it downgrade is...well that's a huge QOL improvemnet too I guess, since it gave the block more survivability, and of course it's something we got accustomed to.

It still boggles my mind that if I slap down a rebar frame and fill it with concrete, that I don't get reinforced concrete (especially considering the game lets me make the same concrete block without rebar), since rebar is short for reinforcing bar. Realism always needs to take a backseat to gameplay.
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Interesting, looks like you have the glitch too. As Kam.R nicely pointed out, I noticed that inconsistency. Looks like it's a prevailing issue in MP? Anyone else on MP care to verify rebar -> normal concrete?

On SP it's still rebar -> r.concrete

 
I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Just because you can upgrade it doesn't mean you have to be able to downgrade it.
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True, but it needs to be consistent. Regardless of which philosophy is chosen, all of the block upgrade/downgrade paths should adhere to it. Right now it seems like there's a disconnect in how concrete is handled.

 
True, but it needs to be consistent. Regardless of which philosophy is chosen, all of the block upgrade/downgrade paths should adhere to it. Right now it seems like there's a disconnect in how concrete is handled.
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But does it?

It sounds like MM and Gazz don't want the downgrading to be a thing anymore, and maybe they will make that consistent that none of the blocks will downgrade anymore. Maybe they will give all the blocks the same total HP they would have had when there were stages, so instead of:

Wood Frame (50 hp) <-> Wood Block (225 hp) <->RWood Block (225 hp) <-> RWood metal reinforced (300 hp) | 850 hp total (50 hp increase)

 


Wood Frame (50 hp) <-> Wood Block (275 hp) <->RWood Block (500 hp) <-> RWood metal reinforced (850 hp) | 850 hp total (50 hp increase)

Or maybe they will just keep the HP the same and lower the zeds damage, or some combination. My takeaway from this thread is Gazz hasn't yet decided how best to do that, but it's a WIP.

Regardless what the solution to the above part of the problem is, like I said from a gameplay perspective being able to upgrade the blocks in place is a huge QOL; the alternative is you need to destroy the blocks to replace them with better. That would suck. It already sucks if you upgrade a wood block and then decide you want to replace it with concrete. And of course it sucks when you slip and put down a concrete in the wrong place.

In fact I'm all for zeds doing less block damage instead of giving the blocks more HP. They should do the same damage punching a block without tools as we do (specials can have more fine), and then blocks could have even less HP. Granted I am not really into pvp (in this game anyway) and the 1st time my base gets griefed I'd probably be screaming for higher block HP, but then LCB could be tweaked more. All these things have to taken into consideration by the person doing the work though.

 
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