PC "Reinforced cement doesn't downgrade to cement"
- Thread starter Feycat
- Start date
Vedui
Active member
It does indeed feel like where in A16 people complained zombies destroyed walls quickly, in A17 they destroyed them... a lot quicker. With the (10% per each zombie?) damage bonus the zombie horde gets, they seem to just tear through blocks like there's no tomorrow.
I did a quick test, lvl 50 (which is still fairly mid level, can barely make the motorcycle), day 7 horde, and there were wights. They do base 250 hp against blocks per hit. Not even counting the extra damage for being in a horde. That's not a lot of hits to destroy even a concrete block, and while rconcrete or steel fares a bit better, that's just 1 wight
And since they all seem to home in on the "easiest path" there's more in one spot too.
An issue in A16 was heavy hitting zombies, and not enough (quantity) of zombies. But you could bump up the quantity. Now they're so deadly bumping them up just means you get a rubble around you faster, as there's no way you can actively handle 12-16 zombies at a time and prevent them from bashing your "castle" down
I like the horde bonus. I like having some heavy hitting zombies. But I'm not sure making base walls weaker is the way to go. Just the horde bonus alone makes it a lot harder to defend against.
/V -
I did a quick test, lvl 50 (which is still fairly mid level, can barely make the motorcycle), day 7 horde, and there were wights. They do base 250 hp against blocks per hit. Not even counting the extra damage for being in a horde. That's not a lot of hits to destroy even a concrete block, and while rconcrete or steel fares a bit better, that's just 1 wight
And since they all seem to home in on the "easiest path" there's more in one spot too.An issue in A16 was heavy hitting zombies, and not enough (quantity) of zombies. But you could bump up the quantity. Now they're so deadly bumping them up just means you get a rubble around you faster, as there's no way you can actively handle 12-16 zombies at a time and prevent them from bashing your "castle" down
I like the horde bonus. I like having some heavy hitting zombies. But I'm not sure making base walls weaker is the way to go. Just the horde bonus alone makes it a lot harder to defend against.
/V -
It does indeed feel like where in A16 people complained zombies destroyed walls quickly, in A17 they destroyed them... a lot quicker. With the (10% per each zombie?) damage bonus the zombie horde gets, they seem to just tear through blocks like there's no tomorrow.
I did a quick test, lvl 50 (which is still fairly mid level, can barely make the motorcycle), day 7 horde, and there were wights. They do base 250 hp against blocks per hit. Not even counting the extra damage for being in a horde. That's not a lot of hits to destroy even a concrete block, and while rconcrete or steel fares a bit better, that's just 1 wight And since they all seem to home in on the "easiest path" there's more in one spot too.
An issue in A16 was heavy hitting zombies, and not enough (quantity) of zombies. But you could bump up the quantity. Now they're so deadly bumping them up just means you get a rubble around you faster, as there's no way you can actively handle 12-16 zombies at a time and prevent them from bashing your "castle" down
I like the horde bonus. I like having some heavy hitting zombies. But I'm not sure making base walls weaker is the way to go. Just the horde bonus alone makes it a lot harder to defend against.
/V -
a try out in A17, (but in r-crete not steel). I think it's current survivability is more due to the 8 shotgun turrets firing pretty much non-stop. Although it did get breached eventually, but then I'm not sure if it was cause of the turrets themselves (I got friendly fire on and they were wasting me even lol) It didn't do "horrible" but certainly not the awesome meatgrinder it was in A16. I didn't get a chance to try it without the turrets, screamer horde spam made the game laggy AF. Looking forward to your A17 designs.
I did a quick test, lvl 50 (which is still fairly mid level, can barely make the motorcycle), day 7 horde, and there were wights. They do base 250 hp against blocks per hit. Not even counting the extra damage for being in a horde. That's not a lot of hits to destroy even a concrete block, and while rconcrete or steel fares a bit better, that's just 1 wight
And since they all seem to home in on the "easiest path" there's more in one spot too.An issue in A16 was heavy hitting zombies, and not enough (quantity) of zombies. But you could bump up the quantity. Now they're so deadly bumping them up just means you get a rubble around you faster, as there's no way you can actively handle 12-16 zombies at a time and prevent them from bashing your "castle" down
I like the horde bonus. I like having some heavy hitting zombies. But I'm not sure making base walls weaker is the way to go. Just the horde bonus alone makes it a lot harder to defend against.
/V -
Yeah, that sucks. I hardly ever went to steel legit except in small critical areas but I kinda relied on reinforced dropping back to regular.
I don't understand removing the polished steel either, I always thought it was pretty damn unreasonable with the cost and rarity (not to mention the time and trouble already getting steel walls) that you needed 10 and in fact I had modded it to 1 per.
Jugginator
Tester
I had the complete different complaint in 16. If the AI managed to figure out to attack my walls rather than spin in circles, it would take forever to get past the initial walls. I would refuse to upgrade past iron walls even past day 40 because anything else was just boring. The difference then and more-so now is using traps. If you're just putting walls up and nothing else, then yes you're not going about it right and your base will fail.It does indeed feel like where in A16 people complained zombies destroyed walls quickly, in A17 they destroyed them... a lot quicker. With the (10% per each zombie?) damage bonus the zombie horde gets, they seem to just tear through blocks like there's no tomorrow.
I did a quick test, lvl 50 (which is still fairly mid level, can barely make the motorcycle), day 7 horde, and there were wights. They do base 250 hp against blocks per hit. Not even counting the extra damage for being in a horde. That's not a lot of hits to destroy even a concrete block, and while rconcrete or steel fares a bit better, that's just 1 wight
An issue in A16 was heavy hitting zombies and not enough (quantity) of zombies. But you could bump up the quantity. Now they're so deadly bumping them up just means you get a rubble around you faster, as there's no way you can actively handle 12-16 zombies at a time and prevent them from bashing your "castle" down
I like the horde bonus. I like having some heavy hitting zombies. But I'm not sure making base walls weaker is the way to go. Just the horde bonus alone makes it a lot harder to defend against.
Case in point, I built a small square out of iron walls with an open top, spikes on the walls and 1 layer deep around the base, an iron wall with spikes on the wall/1layer deep, then a cobblestone wall with the spikes and spread out in the perimeter I had spikes/barbed wire scattered about. Iron and wood bars on top of it all so I could walk over it. Survived day 14 and 21 hordes so far, only losing 2 blocks total. No gimmicks, no pitfalls, just walls/spikes, and some barbed wire. Then used the aerial advantage to combat them. Most of my spikes are still there after two horde nights, they didn't knock out enough for me to warrant accidentally walking over barbed wire to replace them by the second horde.
Kam R.
New member
Was the first thing I thoroughly tested out when I read said patch note. See my first reply in this thread, it outlines all materials and their up/downgrade paths. To answer the question again: R-Concrete will break and NOT downgrade to concrete. If you want a 2-stage block on high tier materials you have to go for steel now.
Vedui
Active member
I always found that until day 35-42, it was less of a challenge. D7-21 works pretty ok just cobblestone and spikes in A16, but once you start going up and seeing radiated, spikes are much less effective as they can't kill them, and cop explosions start taking out big swaths of them. A couple of utility workers, bikers, cops, wights bashing your walls and they better be steel or they simply will break through much faster than you can kill them. This even more so if you bump up to 12 concurrent, or god forbid 16, as manually 1 person has a huge issue keeping up and they spend much more time breaking down walls. Unless of course you use lotsa traps, which help
madmole
New member
Its annoying to be breaking through something with supposedly 10k hitpoints then suddenly another block spawns that has 5k, etc. Why not just have one block with reasonable hit points? Cracks show on damaged blocks and someday we'll get that a bit more immersive or be able to swap to damaged models properly based on total hit points rather than the klunky system there is in place now where its a completely different block. The main issue is the hit point bar magically filling up again which is confusing to new players and just adds a lot of block overhead for us to manage.
LordoftheMoo
New member
So then would you say that it would be ideal for every block to fail after their HP ran out, and that perhaps each block should have the HP adjusted to "some max" based on the former downgrade process? I'm not against that idea, but just trying to see if that's what your thinking is as it sounds like it. That might make things more interesting but then blocks would need to be buffed up to their former "grand total" HP or thereabouts.
Gazz
Fun Pimps Staff
In some cases it makes more sense than in others.
The iron plating on "metal reinforced wood" falling off is kinda reasonable.
A destroyed concrete block turning into a shiny new concrete block? No. Just no.
This is not a complete redesign. Only one bad looking edge case removed. And stainless steel has always been a goofy edge case material.
The iron plating on "metal reinforced wood" falling off is kinda reasonable.
A destroyed concrete block turning into a shiny new concrete block? No. Just no.
This is not a complete redesign. Only one bad looking edge case removed. And stainless steel has always been a goofy edge case material.
Annoying? To who zombies? Are you a....SMH...the plot thickens...that's why Joel doesn't want us to have impenatrable bases; he's one of THEM!
Totally agree with you guys, but then we should get the same total HP we used to get and/or zeds should do less block DPS.
I know you guys like your tower defense more serious than I do so not an argument I'm gonna win, but maybe consider some tweaking.
I was encouraged at first when I read the patch notes but an extra 50hp on wood blocks combined with the concrete nerf makes me feel trolled.
I'd really love to see it as a tuning option decoupled from the general difficulty (like zombies run setting) - I'm generally happy with my zeds, I don't want less spawning in general, and it's less about wanting an indestructible base than I do not want to spend all my time digging and making concrete and repairing my base. I want a reasonable base, and I am willing to put a reasonable amount of effort into building and maintaining it, but I prefer to spend my time adventuring.
This would probably make the builder crowd happy too.
Last edited by a moderator:
LordoftheMoo
New member
Yeah, that logic makes sense. But I'm hoping that we'll see RCon see a buff in its HP so it's at least close to what it used to be aggregated? And yeah, I never even used stainless, it didn't seem worth it given that we rarely took on BM hordes at base anyways. Steel was more than enough to handle even feral screamer hordes for a short time.
Kam R.
New member
Thx for the responses!
That does make sense, actually.
Regarding scrap iron plating falling off (or being torn off rather):
Could we maybe get the forged iron tier as plating in there? Always wondered why it's not.
My suggestion would be giving cobblestone a one-time and BRICKS a two-time upgrade capability with plating made from forged iron. Taking current block hp values, I'd say a forged iron plating upgrade should add 550hp. It would fit well and make the mid-tier building blocks, especially BRICKS, more attractive!