PC "MasterChef" lol

[Drunkwolf]

Show me an adult who doesn't know how to make bacon and eggs, and I'll show you a liar. You might not be able to cook bacon and eggs well. Maybe you end up undercooking the bacon and overcooking the eggs, but I'm pretty sure you can figure out the basic functionality of throwing it in a pot and applying heat.
Why not instead allow people to make bacon and eggs without the perk, but without points in MasterChef, there will be a chance of obtaining food poisoning, or not getting the max nutrients out of what you cook?

Just a thought.

as much as i want to agree, I seriously have a friend who would fail horribly at trying to make bacon and eggs. infact he is 40 years old and didnt even know how to make a grilled cheese for his kid when his girl was sick.

 

[Randomdude]

as much as i want to agree, I seriously have a friend who would fail horribly at trying to make bacon and eggs. infact he is 40 years old and didnt even know how to make a grilled cheese for his kid when his girl was sick.

Do you really want to still call him "friend" after learning that? XD

 

[JaxTeller718]

You mean creative modeNot really

* The inability to make any food except boiled eggs and burned meat has not much to do with a challenge

* The inability to carry your loot to your base and then to a trader has not much to do with a challenge (inA16 i had one central loot stash in a town, in A17 i have a crate each 2nd house)

* The inability to stay at gamestart in desert or Snow biome has not much to do with a challenge. Its only force you to move at startgame in a other.

* The inability to swing your tools without breaks ....

i guess we see a pattern ?!

Man you literally pointed out the challenges. If its something that hampers you, and costs you to re-evaluate your game style and cant easily be bypassed..... SURPRISE! Its called a challenge.

Interested though, what constitutes an actual challenge for you if those arent?

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Man you literally pointed out the challenges. If its something that hampers you, and costs you to re-evaluate your game style and cant easily be bypassed..... SURPRISE! Its called a challenge.
Interested though, what constitutes an actual challenge for you if those arent?

Make food a challenge ....

1: This need spoilage or a balance between the survival of a casual and empty Storage of a pro gamer is impossible

2: Set growing rate of crops to 60 Ingame days

3: Set food prices at traders to something like 2000 Coins for a 100% meal

4:

a: Remove recipes that use infected Meat

b: Remove infected meat from all Harvesting tables

c: As soon as Infected meat is in the same container as food this food becomes infected too (except cans)

d: As soon as you hit a Zombie with a melee Weapon/tool the melee weapon becomes "infected"

e: Harvesting food with a infected weapon/tool make this food infected

f: Make cans and tools cleanable

g: If zombies touching your crops the crops become infected

Means every action i do have consequences, the challenge is to avoid the bad ones. And by that i dont mean slaughter 50 zombies and spend a few skillpoints

 

[Roland]

Lol, gees Roland, you make it sound like I'm saying "WHAT DO WANT? BACON AND EGGS! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW!"
I've given a fair suggestion of how TFP can keep the MasterChef perk, but make it more logical. Use it. Don't use it.

It was a fair suggestion. Sorry if I came on too strongly. I still think that perks as new abilities or recipes is better than perks as better tiers of the same base ability. If the devs switched to your suggestion or even Random Dude's LBD plug I'm sure I would adapt and have fun as well.

 

[Beelzybub]

Show me an adult who doesn't know how to make bacon and eggs, and I'll show you a liar.

Sorry friend but this assertion is wrong. As others have said, I too have adult friends who are not able to cook anything. Their mothers and wives have cooked for them their whole life and they never step foot in the kitchen except to grab a beer.

 

[Pille]

Walking a few blocks to leave a desert or snow biome is a challenge?

Man you literally pointed out the challenges. If its something that hampers you, and costs you to re-evaluate your game style and cant easily be bypassed..... SURPRISE! Its called a challenge.

I would say no. An annoying game mechanic that forces you to change your game style is not necessarily a challenge.

 

[Roland]

You mean creative modeNot really

* The inability to make any food except boiled eggs and burned meat has not much to do with a challenge

* The inability to carry your loot to your base and then to a trader has not much to do with a challenge (inA16 i had one central loot stash in a town, in A17 i have a crate each 2nd house)

* The inability to stay at gamestart in desert or Snow biome has not much to do with a challenge. Its only force you to move at startgame in a other.

* The inability to swing your tools without breaks ....

i guess we see a pattern ?!

All of your posts all show a pattern as well: Royal Deluxe wants to be able to get started on his mega tower that goes from bedrock to sky from day one with no obstacles or delays to the progress.

Creative mode solves that perfectly.

As for challenge here are some questions:

If the inability to make any food except for boiled eggs and charred meat holds zero challenge then why do I find it so much easier to stay well fed when I have better foods than those? Why do I find it easier to remain well hydrated drinking bottled war instead of water boiled in a tin can? Why do I have so much more time for other things when I can eat fewer but better meals and keep my stamina max maximized?

If the inability to carry all of my loot to my base and then a trader has zero to do with challenge then why do I find the game easier once I've perked into Pack Mule a few times and have a vehicle with additional storage space? Why do I find more time to get other activities done when I don't have to make multiple trips? Why do I worry less about dog packs when I can move freely unencumbered than I do when I am slowed down by too much loot?

I agree that because of the buff you get for two days that moving out of snow and desert biomes is no challenge. They should get rid of that buff.

If the inability to swing tools without breaks holds zero challenge then why do find myself with so much more time to build once I have perks and tools that allow me to quickly fell trees and break boulders? Why does the game feel so much easier once I've progressed past the point of having to rest so often? (This point is moot as the devs have changed harvesting stamina and you will rarely have to take breaks and wait now)

Nobody WANTS to say that they are making the game easier on themselves. I can understand that. Spin it however you need to. Back when we had the choice to have or remove crafting timers there were lots of debates on whether crafting timers added challenge. Those who wanted instantaneous crafting said "Nope" even as they would instantly craft 100 arrows or a stack of wood spikes like a magic spell to fight against a suddenly spawning horde they were unprepared to face....

 

[Hek Harris]

no Masterchief perk :

Masterchief lvl 5 :

The second picture just gave me a great hunger, but in my cupboards I have only enough to imitate the first.

 

[OnlyMeiya]

Man you literally pointed out the challenges. If its something that hampers you, and costs you to re-evaluate your game style and cant easily be bypassed..... SURPRISE! Its called a challenge.
Interested though, what constitutes an actual challenge for you if those arent?

I actually didn't find those as a challenge as I dealt with them, just an major annoyance that I didn't already have them available, management without them was fine, but it was tedious and boring.

A challenge is something that requires me the player to possess a certain level of personal skill level (not character level )to overcome an obstacle, not <x> amount of time to grind <x> amount of exp to learn <y> perks so my character doesn't feel gimped anymore. That just bores me to death that they found every possible angle to make your character feel like an helpless infant.

 

[PoppaTot]

Nobody WANTS to say that they are making the game easier on themselves. I can understand that. Spin it however you need to.

I don't envy the position of TFPs right now. Some want it change because it's too difficult. Some think that the difficult is just tedious. Some say the tedious is rewarding. Some say the rewarding is actually boring. Some say the boring is needed.

...May the odds be ever in your favor TFP

 

[12pack]

this reminds me... i missed lunch

 

[Royal Deluxe]

All of your posts all show a pattern as well: Royal Deluxe wants to be able to get started on his mega tower that goes from bedrock to sky from day one with no obstacles or delays to the progress.

Thats really not the case. I guess you know my mod, and yes this mod makes the gamestart much more fluent

* + 10 SKillpoints

* + Lower Skillgates at the Survival/Stamina perks

* + (its[WIP] so cmMenue only) a startequip, including a motorbike

First week is over, what do you think what level i have, vanilla i am lvl 20-40 at day 7 (even with these downslowing)

...

and what do you think ? level 50...100?

I was lvl 15 at 22:00

Why, simply i played the game with fun, sure i looked a few times in the leveltree when i could make iron tools, or when i could level a perk i would like to have in that moment. But different to the Vanilla game i acted like a survivor and avoided dangers instead of running rambo alike into them.

"If the inability to make any food except for boiled eggs and charred meat holds zero challenge then why do I find it so much easier to stay well fed when I have better foods than those?"

I guess you found no trader ?

Why do I find it easier to remain well hydrated drinking bottled war instead of water boiled in a tin can? Why do I have so much more time for other things when I can eat fewer but better meals and keep my stamina max maximized?

Still no trader ?

I Cooked 20 burned meat at the start and since them i allways have enough food from other sources, sure only disgusting Vegetable Stew, Meatstew, and from time to time a can. But it works

If the inability to carry all of my loot to my base and then a trader has zero to do with challenge then why do I find the game easier once I've perked into Pack Mule a few times and have a vehicle with additional storage space? Why do I find more time to get other activities done when I don't have to make multiple trips? Why do I worry less about dog packs when I can move freely unencumbered than I do when I am slowed down by too much loot?

So you say moving with 1 Km/h over the map is more dangerous as spending this time by looting, Fighting, Mining, Building ?

Or in short by Gameplay that is fun ?

Yeaaa enjoying to move encumbered is really more difficult than these other stuff

My point is that difficulty can be a good thing (as a challange) or a bad thing if it is only annoying with no way to circumvent it by acting smart, serious, focused,.....

The point as i see it is that with A18 they got all these nice possibilitys with perks. And they simply exxagerated it by addig to much stuff behind Perks.

Better 3 small bonus behind perks that expand the basic gameplay

than

5 Perks that gate and enable the basic gameplay

 

[HungryZombie]

You aren't going to cook a quiche in a pot over a campfire, so your sarcastic reply seems to be lacking in actual merit

I'm sorry, was my question directed to you? I don't think so and the reply I got from Hotpoon who I was asking directly seems to indicate that there is a hint of merit behind my question.

Do you cook bacon and eggs in a pot?

If your answer is "You can" then I'd say the same thing for a Frittata.

There was no sarcasm meant at all. Was a sincere question.

My overall point wasn't specifically about quiche or Frittata, those just sprang to mind. I'm sure some more reasonable item could be thought of.

Why were you so offended by this?

 

[HungryZombie]

I agree that because of the buff you get for two days that moving out of snow and desert biomes is no challenge. They should get rid of that buff.

Damn, I was just starting to like you and now... THIS?

I kid, I kid!!!

 

[OnlyMeiya]

All of your posts all show a pattern as well: Royal Deluxe wants to be able to get started on his mega tower that goes from bedrock to sky from day one with no obstacles or delays to the progress.
Creative mode solves that perfectly.

As a builder that makes mega structures myself I can answer that.

It isn't that we want to immediately start from day 1 to making a "Super structure" its just the grind this game incorporates to "Simulate" challenge, isn't challenge, its just tedium. The problem with the grind is there's no "Juice" to keep the grind from getting so stale I want to rip all my damn hair out from boredom, nothing really new or exciting happens except for a few cheap scripted events (Like 7 zombie dogs randomly appearing without warning and sneaking up on the player to zerg them)

Why do we want to immediately start making structures? Well, that's the end goal of the game, and every perk/trait and item is geared towards making that goal shorter, survive the first 7th day horde then that's pretty much it.

There are no "In between" Goals. No short term goals except for personal tastes like "I want a shotgun because I really love shotguns."

Just one, big, fking long, ass GRIND, till I can start feeling like a normal player and do normal things.

To counter this in the game "Dont Starve" there is a scripted time event for the "Hounds" which on the day it happens you hear snorting and loud growling and your character will make comments about "The hounds are baying...." and as it gets faster and faster it creates this tension and gives the player a little time to react to whats happening without being in a very unfavorable position to have strong enemies just sneak up on you and cheap kill you.

Don't react or ignore it, you die, and death is punishment as you must restart the entire game now.

See the difference here?

There are many ways to overcome the challenge as well, you can fight them yourself if you know how to micro them, you can literally do it with anything and NO ARMOR and take no damage if you know how they work! Or if you have armor and weapons prepared to mitigate the damage you can force your way through with damage to yourself.

you can kite them to another NPC that will attack them, or the hounds will attack them if you're too far, this allows you breathing room and usually eliminates them for you.

Of course that has nothing to do with building, but its an event that keeps the game feeling fresh as you slowly progress through the tedious grind of artificial difficulty of grinding zeds that take 3-9 headshots depending on your difficulty level choosen, which the stat padding in hp isn't viable for a difficulty since the weapons and armor in game themselves are always a fixed value.

If I had stuff to keep me busy without it feeling like a low blow to the player I would likely worry more about "Oh I need to prepare for the hounds."

"I need to start a farm "

"I need to prepare food storage for winter."

"I need to find/create warm clothes for winter."

"I need to make a way to make my food last through winter."

THAT is a challenge because it requires good management of resources and time and a little bit of RNG luck.

Instead 7 zombie dogs are spawned, run up from behind me because they know exactly where I am, have me cornered without any warning and I die because I am trapped in a building room with a small area to mitigate.

A cheap experience isn't a fun one.

As for challenge here are some questions:

If the inability to make any food except for boiled eggs and charred meat holds zero challenge then why do I find it so much easier to stay well fed when I have better foods than those? Why do I find it easier to remain well hydrated drinking bottled war instead of water boiled in a tin can? Why do I have so much more time for other things when I can eat fewer but better meals and keep my stamina max maximized?

The game doesn't work off of "Challenge" you guys need to understand this, its just tedious grindy chore work, its easier because the game makes the "Grind" more efficient."

An example of that would be "I NEED to have at least 10 of <x> food to take with me through <x> place else I will starve before I reach the target destination and back." Instead you can just carry 50 boiled eggs for the same result. Food in this game is a very trivial concept.

If the inability to carry all of my loot to my base and then a trader has zero to do with challenge then why do I find the game easier once I've perked into Pack Mule a few times and have a vehicle with additional storage space? Why do I find more time to get other activities done when I don't have to make multiple trips? Why do I worry less about dog packs when I can move freely unencumbered than I do when I am slowed down by too much loot?

I already answered this, its nothing but tedious,redundant, chore work of doing the same thing over and over without any juice, the perks just raise efficiency and lowers the amount of time you need to do the same thing, and honestly I never worry about dog packs while being encumbered, I never encumber myself, but not because I fear dog packs, but because I hate how slow it makes me and how badly it drains the stamina, that means I make more multiple stops to rest, which is annoying and interrupts my game play.

I agree that because of the buff you get for two days that moving out of snow and desert biomes is no challenge. They should get rid of that buff.

Agree also,

If the inability to swing tools without breaks holds zero challenge then why do find myself with so much more time to build once I have perks and tools that allow me to quickly fell trees and break boulders? Why does the game feel so much easier once I've progressed past the point of having to rest so often? (This point is moot as the devs have changed harvesting stamina and you will rarely have to take breaks and wait now)

Nobody WANTS to say that they are making the game easier on themselves. I can understand that. Spin it however you need to.

Again, its all about Tedium and grind, and the perks just again, raise efficiency. This isn't challenge at all Roland so I don't understand why you feel like it is because all I feel like is "I"m doing the same boring crap for less time now that my character is becoming "Normal" again.

A challenge would be an early game POI dungeon crawl that always had very strong enemies, and you either needed a good knowledge of them and your resources how to entrap to kill them, or wait till you're leveled up and strong enough to force your way through them. (Perceptible vs Hidden affordance ) with the end premise of a great starting base or rewarding loot that isn't as random."

I've played A17 for about a week and im already bored of it,and moved into other games; this game just has a lack of any meaningful content and since multiplayer is broken I can't find any good objects to keep myself entertained with while doing this grind.

This game lacks juice, lacks content.

Watch this, maybe you'll see what I mean.

 

[Roland]

Damn, I was just starting to like you and now... THIS?

I kid, I kid!!!

I will add that if they get rid of the buff they should give you choice of what biome to spawn into. Fair?

 

[Roland]

As a builder that makes mega structures myself I can answer that.It isn't that we want to immediately start from day 1 to making a "Super structure" its just the grind this game incorporates to "Simulate" challenge, isn't challenge, its just tedium. The problem with the grind is there's no "Juice" to keep the grind from getting so stale I want to rip all my damn hair out from boredom, nothing really new or exciting happens except for a few cheap scripted events (Like 7 zombie dogs randomly appearing without warning and sneaking up on the player to zerg them)

Why do we want to immediately start making structures? Well, that's the end goal of the game, and every perk/trait and item is geared towards making that goal shorter, survive the first 7th day horde then that's pretty much it.

There are no "In between" Goals. No short term goals except for personal tastes like "I want a shotgun because I really love shotguns."

Just one, big, fking long, ass GRIND, till I can start feeling like a normal player and do normal things.

To counter this in the game "Dont Starve" there is a scripted time event for the "Hounds" which on the day it happens you hear snorting and loud growling and your character will make comments about "The hounds are baying...." and as it gets faster and faster it creates this tension and gives the player a little time to react to whats happening without being in a very unfavorable position to have strong enemies just sneak up on you and cheap kill you.

Don't react or ignore it, you die, and death is punishment as you must restart the entire game now.

See the difference here?

There are many ways to overcome the challenge as well, you can fight them yourself if you know how to micro them, you can literally do it with anything and NO ARMOR and take no damage if you know how they work! Or if you have armor and weapons prepared to mitigate the damage you can force your way through with damage to yourself.

you can kite them to another NPC that will attack them, or the hounds will attack them if you're too far, this allows you breathing room and usually eliminates them for you.

Of course that has nothing to do with building, but its an event that keeps the game feeling fresh as you slowly progress through the tedious grind of artificial difficulty of grinding zeds that take 3-9 headshots depending on your difficulty level choosen, which the stat padding in hp isn't viable for a difficulty since the weapons and armor in game themselves are always a fixed value.

If I had stuff to keep me busy without it feeling like a low blow to the player I would likely worry more about "Oh I need to prepare for the hounds."

"I need to start a farm "

"I need to prepare food storage for winter."

"I need to find/create warm clothes for winter."

"I need to make a way to make my food last through winter."

THAT is a challenge because it requires good management of resources and time and a little bit of RNG luck.

I'm ready to agree with you that efficiency isn't a fun challenge for some players but I'm not ready to agree with you that it is "fake challenge" or "no challenge just tedious". The game definitely has a time management element to it and the efficiency part adds some challenge to that. It might not be a challenge your interested in playing with but objectively people do struggle with the game because of it and I'm not talking about the struggle to keep playing in the face of tedium....lol

Instead 7 zombie dogs are spawned, run up from behind me because they know exactly where I am, have me cornered without any warning and I die because I am trapped in a building room with a small area to mitigate.

A cheap experience isn't a fun one.

See, this doesn't happen to me. Dog packs are a lot easier as of the last couple alphas compared to the past. Again it seems that there are some challenges you aren't up to facing and instead of admitting that you are instead blaming the challenge by calling it "cheap challenge" or "fake challenge" I don't agree. Challenges are challenges. A pack of dogs creeping into the poi you are exploring and then going crazy on you is definitely challenging but it is definitely NOT a kobiyashi maru...

I love these events because when I escape them alive (sometimes barely alive) it makes for a great story to remember. Without these types of events there could be no great escape stories.

This isn't challenge at all Roland so I don't understand why you feel like it is because all I feel like is "I"m doing the same boring crap for less time now that my character is becoming "Normal" again.

Ah....see, now THIS is an epidemic of being a long time Early Access player of the game. New players are not going to look at the perks as regaining what we had for free in A16. They are just going to see the starting abilities as starting abilities and be excite when they can suddenly cook better meals and perform more efficiently than the first few days of the game. If you keep what we used to have as "normal" as this shining star in your head you will always be disappointed with balancing. Every alpha release you have to look at the game as through new eyes and not as a disappointing comparison to what we used to have.

A challenge would be an early game POI dungeon crawl that always had very strong enemies, and you either needed a good knowledge of them and your resources how to entrap to kill them, or wait till you're leveled up and strong enough to force your way through them. (Perceptible vs Hidden affordance ) with the end premise of a great starting base or rewarding loot that isn't as random."

I would love these suggestions being added to the game in addition to the efficiency/time management challenges we currently have. The problem is that there already ARE some of these challenges in the form of quests and we still get complaints from people who go up against the hard ones too early and before they are prepared. Of course, THEY don't say they were unprepared or that they tried them too early. They instead claim the quests are "cheap" with "fake jump scare challenge" and "automatic no way to avoid it death" that just makes the whole experience unfair. There was a whole thread about this with a linked gameplay video of streamer claiming how unfair the "challenge" was and yet as people watched it and commented most agreed that the player went in under-prepared and not carefully enough. <shrug> Seems like gamer ego to me.

I've played A17 for about a week and im already bored of it,and moved into other games

I've already played more A17 than I ever did A16. Just had a thrilling blood moon experience and was able to complete my bicycle the day after. After analyzing how they were attacking my base I have some objectives in mind for the next couple of days in order to get ready for the next one. I'm already excited to see how they will adapt to what I do. Not every game is going to tickle every gamer's fancy. Sorry this version is more tedious for you and that it sounds like you are getting burned out on it. Moving on to other games is usually just the medicine you need. Take a break from 7 days for 1-3 months and come back to (possibly) 17.5 and see if you feel refreshed again. I get messages from returning players all the time who set it aside for a couple of years and they get sucked back into it all over again and love it.

 

[Randomdude]

This is an AMAZING video! Loved it!

 

[Royal Deluxe]

New players are not going to look at the perks as regaining what we had for free in A16.

There are enough new players that see the tedious gameplay too.

I guess its simply more that humans are different. And the current ballance is simply too much for people like me

Moving on to other games is usually just the medicine you need. Take a break from 7 days for 1-3 months and come back to (possibly) 17.5 and see if you feel refreshed again. I get messages from returning players all the time who set it aside for a couple of years and they get sucked back into it all over again and love it.

I made my over a year brake from 7D2D for exact this. Thats why i never encumbered about new Controls. Simply because i didnt really remembered the old ones.

I know that you read on a daylie basis bull♥♥♥♥ from players. And that since years. So i dont wonder that you have grown a thick skin.

And i would never state that i never exxagerate or fail to see something objective.

But really roland, the current startgame is tedious and for people who perceive the world as i do not enjoyable (unmodded).

But for TFP´s luck they decided to make the game moddable. So take my feedback, (i played the game only for hundrets of hours in vanilla to be able to give this feedback) and consider it in the future.

I will now go back ingame and disassemble this car after i have enough stamina to do so ^^