PC Question about game difficulty and co-op multiplayer

[TheDay755Hero]

Hello,

I have been playing 7 Days To Die since alpha 1.1 came out (well I didn't own it at that time but I played it one of my friends PCs) and I have cumulatively spent over 3000 hours on all of my steam accounts playing this game So, I think I'm not a noob at this game...

I used to play on default difficulty every-single alpha and very rarely rise/lower it depending on how the RNG is in this world (most of the time (like 80%) I raise it).

Since alpha 18 came out I think that everyone would agree that it made the game (specially early game) a lot harder than other alphas due to zombie rage, night ferals, slow levelling etc...

So I now usually start at everything default except XP multiplier (I set it to 150-200) and raise the difficulty and decrease the xp multiplier (minimum 100%) every 14 days.

I always use the settings above in single and multi player games now the problem is I have recently got like 8 copies of 7 days to die and didn't really want to keep them for my self (because why the f*ck would anyone want 8 duplicate game keys) so I gifted one of my friends the game and we start to play...

He's completely new to 7 Days To Die but not the survival genre of games when we started to play he accepted my settings and we played until the first 7th day horde.

After that he started complaining that the game isn't fun that way and that everything is "too easy" and "tedious" and he wanted me to ramp up the difficulty to the following...

- Start at survivalist difficulty.

- DELETE everything on death.

- 150% XP

- 16K world

He said that the settings above makes the game more like Rust where if you die someone steals your stuff and you have to fight to get it back.

And we started playing and we have both died like 12+ times the first day ALONE and didn't even continue playing because I got bored and just quit...

Now he's just going insane and keeps calling me a "cry baby" and an "unskilled" player and that I he doesn't want to play with me anymore (which really doesn't matter to me at all).

I told him that if he wants to play Rust he can go and do so. You do you right?!

What I want to know is, which difficulty settings do find entertaining and at the same time challenging?

TL;DR: Two guys playing one wants to play 7dtd as is, one wants to play it like Rust, share your opinion.

Thanks for anyone who reads.

 

[meganoth]

The question is: Did he have fun playing 7d2d?

And: Why would he need a 16k world if only 2 people are on the map and they die all the time anyway?

My guess is he didn't really like this game and therefore tried to make the game similar to the game he likes. The solution for him is probably not to play 7D2D and the solution for you is probably to find someone with similar taste in games.

Even with someone else you might have to make compromises when playing with someone else (for example play on a difficulty level slightly above or below of your ideal), I can assure you it is worth it. But too many compromises don't work.

 

[TheDay755Hero]

The question is: Did he have fun playing 7d2d?
And: Why would he need a 16k world if only 2 people are on the map and they die all the time anyway?

My guess is he didn't really like this game and therefore tried to make the game similar to the game he likes. The solution for him is probably not to play 7D2D and the solution for you is probably to find someone with similar taste in games.

Even with someone else you might have to make compromises when playing with someone else (for example play on a difficulty level slightly above or below of your ideal), I can assure you it is worth it. But too many compromises don't work.

Thanks for your reply, best thing about what you said above is "too many compromises won't work".

 

[Boidster]

My co-op partner and I have been playing since A15 on console (and he a bit longer than that) and we play on Warrior difficulty in A18 with other settings basically vanilla (no extra XP, no extra loot, but see below). We find the difficulty about right I guess for our playstyle; it was definitely too easy on the default difficulty. We almost never get killed by zombies, usually it's either a surprise bear attack or us falling off our base into our own spike traps. Once I didn't recognize a military camp for what it was and stepped on a landmine. We definitely work as a team and watch each other's back which helps survivability.

We did add harvestable zombies (more bones and rotten flesh), a slightly elevated chance for eggs in nests (moot now since we're on 100% hobo stew), added radiators to refrigerators & ice machines (more brass), and increased zombie and animal spawns about 4x. It plays now more like we remember from A15 - gotta keep our heads on swivels 'cause zombies are wandering around all over the place.

We play on a 4K map and it's plenty big. But our play style is to find a town, build up a POI base, a crafting base, and a horde night base, and then venture out from there across the map and back (ending up back at base most nights). If we were more nomadic or run-n-gun in our play style, maybe an 8K map would be needed.

Completely agree with meganoth - sounds like your friend was looking to play game X instead of learning to play 7D2D (warts and all).

 

[TheDay755Hero]

My co-op partner and I have been playing since A15 on console (and he a bit longer than that) and we play on Warrior difficulty in A18 with other settings basically vanilla (no extra XP, no extra loot, but see below). We find the difficulty about right I guess for our playstyle; it was definitely too easy on the default difficulty. We almost never get killed by zombies, usually it's either a surprise bear attack or us falling off our base into our own spike traps. Once I didn't recognize a military camp for what it was and stepped on a landmine. We definitely work as a team and watch each other's back which helps survivability.
We did add harvestable zombies (more bones and rotten flesh), a slightly elevated chance for eggs in nests (moot now since we're on 100% hobo stew), added radiators to refrigerators & ice machines (more brass), and increased zombie and animal spawns about 4x. It plays now more like we remember from A15 - gotta keep our heads on swivels 'cause zombies are wandering around all over the place.

We play on a 4K map and it's plenty big. But our play style is to find a town, build up a POI base, a crafting base, and a horde night base, and then venture out from there across the map and back (ending up back at base most nights). If we were more nomadic or run-n-gun in our play style, maybe an 8K map would be needed.

Completely agree with meganoth - sounds like your friend was looking to play game X instead of learning to play 7D2D (warts and all).

He my friend (I guess I shall not call him that anymore XD) insisted on a 16k map to make the game "more challenging like Rust" and when I told him if he wants a real challenge and not just unnecessary difficulty he and I shall install a mod that adds more actually challenging enemies and makes the progression a little bit slower in a meaningful way he said that making all of your items disappear on death is enough?!??!??!!!

 

[Ghostlight]

Since alpha 18 came out I think that everyone would agree that it made the game (specially early game) a lot harder than other alphas due to zombie rage, night ferals, slow levelling etc...

I completely disagree. This is by far the easiest alpha ever. To the extent that I go on about my business at night time, something which I've never felt safe enough to do in any alpha before this one. There are so few zombies in general it is very very easy. Especially early game.

 

[TheDay755Hero]

I completely disagree. This is by far the easiest alpha ever. To the extent that I go on about my business at night time, something which I've never felt safe enough to do in any alpha before this one. There are so few zombies in general it is very very easy. Especially early game.

I don't want to immediately call you a troll... What difficulty do you play on? I go outside at night in the in every-single default setting play through but I don't really think that you will survive at night with zombie ferals spawning and the insane damage scale of the survivalist/insane difficulty. And by "your business" what do you mean? Do you want to convince me that you go and loot anything other than small houses at night early game?

 

[Ghostlight]

I play on Insane if co-op, less if solo, usually Warrior. But I do not start on that difficulty, bullet-sponge enemies are too boring. We often start on Warrior and work it up from there.

I don't loot at night until I have a decent light source. Mining mostly at night but anything really. Yes we loot as normal at night once we have helmet lights.

I mostly play with a very regular group and we have almost 2000 hours each. We are serious min-maxers and have a ton of experience in the game. What I am saying is "we know what we are doing".

 

[TheDay755Hero]

I play on Insane if co-op, less if solo, usually Warrior. But I do not start on that difficulty, bullet-sponge enemies are too boring. We often start on Warrior and work it up from there.
I don't loot at night until I have a decent light source. Mining mostly at night but anything really. Yes we loot as normal at night once we have helmet lights.

I mostly play with a very regular group and we have almost 2000 hours each. We are serious min-maxers and have a ton of experience in the game. What I am saying is "we know what we are doing".

Exactly, insane if with a group and as you said each one of you does have like 2000 right? And also again as you said, bullet sponge enemies are f*cking boring.

 

[Senatorozmo]

We did add harvestable zombies (more bones and rotten flesh),

Sorry new to the PC version.....is this an actual setting?

 

[Roland]

I completely disagree. This is by far the easiest alpha ever. To the extent that I go on about my business at night time, something which I've never felt safe enough to do in any alpha before this one. There are so few zombies in general it is very very easy. Especially early game.

Disagree, I have to say A16 was the easiest night time difficulty ever. In A16 the zombies were blind and deaf at night because they introduced stealth and went way overboard. This was never fixed during the entirety of A16 (1.5 years) and you could go outside and do whatever you wanted without any worry despite wandering hordes and larger outdoor spawns. All you needed to do if a zombie ran your way was crouch and you would be lost to it forever.

A17 fixed the problem with zombies being able to even detect the player from a few blocks away BUT they were slow due to a bug so no matter how fast they ran you could easily outrun them and once again there was no worry.

A18 isn't as hard as earlier alphas but you do have to work a bit to stay undetected.

Anyone who played during the early years when zombies had their player GPS on every night will never find the nights as difficult as they used to be. Back then, though, torch light would slow them to a walk so you always kept a stack on your belt for security.

 

[Roland]

Sorry new to the PC version.....is this an actual setting?

A mod.

 

[Ghostlight]

Disagree, I have to say A16 was the easiest night time difficulty ever. In A16 the zombies were blind and deaf at night because they introduced stealth and went way overboard

I never used Stealth as I considered it an exploit back then it was so OP, so my A16 nights were exciting and dangerous.

 

[Roland]

I never used Stealth as I considered it an exploit back then it was so OP, so my A16 nights were exciting and dangerous.

You misunderstand. The devs added default "stealth" to every player by making the zombies blind and deaf. It was a bug/turned the dial too far and not the perk I'm talking about. Madmole called it "stealth" meaning that they wanted players to be able to sneak around at night better by default before buying any stealth perks. But they messed it up in A16 being the first iteration. You could chop a tree down 3 meters from a zombie and it would not react. You could crouch and be just a meter away and they could not find you. Add to this the incessant circling behavior and getting stuck on decorations and you had a free pass at night.

Mine in the open and nothing would run to the sound. If one wandered close and got triggered simply crouch and they would lose you.

I remember once crouching in the beloved plains biome and a wandering horde of about 20 zombies came running toward me. They ran right past me all around me and never detected me as I crouched in the grass out in the open moonlight. I had not one single stealth based perk. This was A16 and that was just the way it was.

Due to the natural state of zombies at night I never purchased stealth perks either. What did you need them for?

Then in A17 they were so painfully slow you could run for a 1/4 of your stamina bar and then turn and they would be 50m distant and back to wandering aimlessly....

A18 isn't tough per se but it is more risky than A16 or A17 in my experience.

btw....did you increase your zombie counts? THAT makes a difference at night. You actually feel like you have to sneak and use rocks as misdirection when there is a crowd wandering around in the dark.

 

[Ghostlight]

You misunderstand. The devs added default "stealth" to every player by making the zombies blind and deaf. It was a bug/turned the dial too far and not the perk I'm talking about. Madmole called it "stealth" meaning that they wanted players to be able to sneak around at night better by default before buying any stealth perks. But they messed it up in A16 being the first iteration. You could chop a tree down 3 meters from a zombie and it would not react. You could crouch and be just a meter away and they could not find you.

Never, ever saw that behavior. Used to get swarmed at night. No way we'd leave the base.

Add to this the incessant circling behavior and getting stuck on decorations and you had a free pass at night.

Never saw that either.

btw....did you increase your zombie counts? THAT makes a difference at night. You actually feel like you have to sneak and use rocks as misdirection when there is a crowd wandering around in the dark.

No, in the end I didn't. All my friends quit the game and I do not enjoy it solo tbh, so....I've no touched the game for weeks. They will likely be back by A19.

To be a little more constructive to the OP, try these settings....

Set Difficulty to something low.

Set XP gain to 300%

Max Alive: 24 zombies

Net effect....your gamestage rises quickly so you get more zombies and the more dangerous zombies faster, however the lower difficulty means they remain fun to fight and are never bullet sponges. I think as many zombies as possible but they being easy to kill is the sweet spot.

 

[Tristaris]

To be a little more constructive to the OP, try these settings....

Set Difficulty to something low.

Set XP gain to 300%

Max Alive: 24 zombies

Net effect....your gamestage rises quickly so you get more zombies and the more dangerous zombies faster, however the lower difficulty means they remain fun to fight and are never bullet sponges. I think as many zombies as possible but they being easy to kill is the sweet spot.

That's how I enjoy playing as well. Default or Nomad difficulty with zombie counts raised so they aren't health sponges, but there's a lot instead. I'm personally not a fan of the difficulty scaling in 7 days, really, as I find it a little obnoxious that multiple head shots wouldn't kill a zombie, but that's just my own personal taste. I enjoy a more 'walking dead' style zombie experience.

That's the joy about the game, after all. It can be modded and changed to fit a wide variety of playstyles.

 

[TheDay755Hero]

Never, ever saw that behavior. Used to get swarmed at night. No way we'd leave the base.


Never saw that either.

No, in the end I didn't. All my friends quit the game and I do not enjoy it solo tbh, so....I've no touched the game for weeks. They will likely be back by A19.

To be a little more constructive to the OP, try these settings....

Set Difficulty to something low.

Set XP gain to 300%

Max Alive: 24 zombies

Net effect....your gamestage rises quickly so you get more zombies and the more dangerous zombies faster, however the lower difficulty means they remain fun to fight and are never bullet sponges. I think as many zombies as possible but they being easy to kill is the sweet spot.

Stuff that you have never seen or experienced doesn't mean that they didn't exist, that means that you might have not encountered them before... For me I have actually came across (and even still come across) zombies running in circles and even getting stuck on grass and decorations...

And about your difficulty suggestion, it's not bad but it makes the game more about shooting than trying to survive and have fun... Because in Alpha 18 you have a very high chance of getting a very powerful weapon day-one and with that difficulty it will be basically sandbox mode lmao.

 

[Tehnomaag]

The challenge in 7D2D is in early game. After you have your Q5 or Q6 M60 and are mass producing ammunition it really does not matter anymore what is the "difficulty" setting - all it changes is the number of bullets you are using per zombie, but you can afford them bullets even if it does not make "economic sense" as you can mass produce that stuff.

Your usual settings cut the early game struggle much shorter, while, arguably, this is "the game" and the things you are doing once established is just an overly extended prologue.

But people like different things. In the current game I'm playing we have around 6 more or less regular players, multiplayer co-op. Two of the dudes were happy as clams first few weeks but are getting a bit bored now that it's ~day 45 and we can have 6 workbenches just pumping out ammunition 24/7. We have been ramping up difficultly slowly, just the other night we switched nighttime zeds to "nightmare" speed and daytime zombies to "jog" from "walk". Last blood moon we faced 1863 zombies altogether and half of us got killed when the building we were using to fight them collapsed near morning. It was morning before we were able to exhaust the zed supply. We have about three "builders", on the other hand who are now happier than they were in the beginning. They are no longer "struggling" so much and can focus on cranking out toys they like. Erecting huge cobblestone pillars to demonstrate their manliness to the zombies, mass producing gyrochopters and ammo, farming, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that one size shoe does not fit all.

I guess your friend is more of a "hardcore" player. While you sound like liking more the traditional zombie shooter aspect where a player can reliably best a zombie and usually does not die unless doing something stupid.

For reference, these are the changes we have done in our multiplayer compared to vanilla. difficulty 3 (warrior) meaning zeds do 150% damage and players 75%, day 120 min, bloodmoon interval 20 days, airdrop 168h (7 days). House rule of not building a spearate base for blood moon but taking on the hord in our main base. House rule of not abusing AI pathfinding for bases - the thing we build must be beliveable (we do use the steep angle walls but have limited ourselves to max 3 tiles high). 12 zeds per player during bloodmoon. Players drop everything on death.

We have already agreed that when we start a next map we will dramatically drop the loot percentage somewhere to around 10-20% of the default. Few other changes as well - probably longer nights.

If you are interested in playing with your friend what you could try is to dramatically drop the loot percentage instead of going nuts with difficulty settings. There is an additional possible house rule of not using the bedroll (in combination of player dropping all eq on death) meaning you might need to travel few km naked to get your stuff back.

16 km map is btw a bit too large for two players. depends on the map and settings and if any role playing is involved.

 

[Roland]

Never, ever saw that behavior. Used to get swarmed at night. No way we'd leave the base.


Never saw that either.

No, in the end I didn't. All my friends quit the game and I do not enjoy it solo tbh, so....I've no touched the game for weeks. They will likely be back by A19.

To be a little more constructive to the OP, try these settings....

Set Difficulty to something low.

Set XP gain to 300%

Max Alive: 24 zombies

Net effect....your gamestage rises quickly so you get more zombies and the more dangerous zombies faster, however the lower difficulty means they remain fun to fight and are never bullet sponges. I think as many zombies as possible but they being easy to kill is the sweet spot.

I was talking about the other six nights of the week not the one night where they do gps to the player.....

 

[Ti2xGr]

I remember those stupid circling zombies. I almost find it easier now that they will actually run at me vs. spinning madly in circles.

In regard to difficulty, I have it set to "standard", but have slowed the zombies at night to a jog vs. run. We have added many more zombies and animals to the world by adjusting the Spawning.xml on the server. We have significant amounts of zombies in the Wasteland (all the time) and Burnt (at night) biomes. We have also bumped up the other biome zombie counts slightly. We do this to give players who want more challenge, a place to go on the map where they are guaranteed to get hurt, but also places like the desert or snow biome where they won't be bothered nearly as much. We have left the XP at default (bump it up on special occasions), but have added more standard ammo available to find in the world or buy from the trader to compensate for the many extra zombies in world.

That balance has seemed to satisfy all our players. We also have added a few extra mods like the BDub's vehicle pack and larger backpack. The larger POI's are great but the loot we find can fill up our coffers too quickly so we made the executive decision to bump up storage and increase stack sizes.

You would be surprised at how easy it is to change all sorts of settings and tweaks just by adjusting a few numbers in the xml's. Don't be afraid to check them out and tweak accordingly.