Royal Deluxe
New member
Dynamite do no harm to blocks so far i see this.
Use gas barrels and tnt
PC Problems with A17.2 that aren't on the 'known issues' list of the patch notes
- Thread starter hotpoon
- Start date
Dynamite do no harm to blocks so far i see this.
Use gas barrels and tnt
fragtzack
New member
Am fine with the new perk system here. The game flows better and less grindy.
However, adding a "light" skill use on top would be cool.
I suggest a familiarity system on top of the current perk system, not exactly a skill use system.
Familiarity system:
Using the same tool or weapon over and over makes you slightly better with ONLY that weapon or tool.
For example:
Swinging a stone axe 1000 times makes you use .05% less stamina, up to a max of 2%.
Firing a 9mm pistol 1000 times make you aim .05% better, up to a max of 2%.
To make this system really "familiar", make this familiarity tied to a specific tool/weapon. Meaning if you swap out the level 2 iron axe for a level 6 iron axe, the familiarity doesn't transfer.
Side note: The red zombie HP bar was horrific. Thanks goodness that didn't go into production.
However, adding a "light" skill use on top would be cool.
I suggest a familiarity system on top of the current perk system, not exactly a skill use system.
Familiarity system:
Using the same tool or weapon over and over makes you slightly better with ONLY that weapon or tool.
For example:
Swinging a stone axe 1000 times makes you use .05% less stamina, up to a max of 2%.
Firing a 9mm pistol 1000 times make you aim .05% better, up to a max of 2%.
To make this system really "familiar", make this familiarity tied to a specific tool/weapon. Meaning if you swap out the level 2 iron axe for a level 6 iron axe, the familiarity doesn't transfer.
Side note: The red zombie HP bar was horrific. Thanks goodness that didn't go into production.
I don't understand the love affair that everyone seems to have with the LBD system. Those systems are almost universally terrible. The glazed eyes of looking at the past always seem to forget those asinine moments when you are standing on a cactus to level armor or eating a million aloe creams to level medicine.
Here is a hint - ignore where you are getting your experience from. It makes the game a LOT more fun and you will notice that you are leveling faster anyway. LBD is actually a rather horrible idea because there are simply things in any game that you want to level but only need in more rare circumstances (like armor skills).
Here is a hint - ignore where you are getting your experience from. It makes the game a LOT more fun and you will notice that you are leveling faster anyway. LBD is actually a rather horrible idea because there are simply things in any game that you want to level but only need in more rare circumstances (like armor skills).
Hek Harris
New member
Don't worry, you are not alone ^^. LBD seems to be a good idea in theory, but in practice it's a mess.
Royal Deluxe
New member
I would like a mixed system of
* Learning by doing
* Unlock with perks
* Unlock by reputation
* Learn by teachers (what need money and or XP and or reputation and or unlocked Perks)
Every single system has beneifits and drawbacks, only a mix would be able to maximize benefits and reduce drawbacks.
Because it feels good if you Mine and your Strenght go up.
Its is nice to unlock better tools at the trader by reputation
In your free time you can focus on something, so xp are only a gate for the ability to lean back, read a book and improve a ability it makes no sense to learn by do it. As example First aid.
And finally Teachers, that can teach you abilitys like Producing iron tools, or using a First aid kit properly.
A huge part of that can (in future) be done by quests i hope
(Break 20 Stone blocks = Strenght 2
Break 100 Stone blocks = Strenght 3
...)
* Learning by doing
* Unlock with perks
* Unlock by reputation
* Learn by teachers (what need money and or XP and or reputation and or unlocked Perks)
Every single system has beneifits and drawbacks, only a mix would be able to maximize benefits and reduce drawbacks.
Because it feels good if you Mine and your Strenght go up.
Its is nice to unlock better tools at the trader by reputation
In your free time you can focus on something, so xp are only a gate for the ability to lean back, read a book and improve a ability it makes no sense to learn by do it. As example First aid.
And finally Teachers, that can teach you abilitys like Producing iron tools, or using a First aid kit properly.
A huge part of that can (in future) be done by quests i hope
(Break 20 Stone blocks = Strenght 2
Break 100 Stone blocks = Strenght 3
...)
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Once again never said LBD was perfect, plenty of improvement could have been made. Plenty of ways they could have fixed problems that everyone has addressed here such as
- Armor skill grinding (this should not grinded by taking damage)
- Mining skill complaints (mining should just go by quicker, probably not give more materials with better skill, less incentive to worry about grinding it)
just to address a couple. I never said A16 was the end all be all.
- Armor skill grinding (this should not grinded by taking damage)
- Mining skill complaints (mining should just go by quicker, probably not give more materials with better skill, less incentive to worry about grinding it)
just to address a couple. I never said A16 was the end all be all.
HerrKingsley
New member
I haven't seen anyone saying cactus leveling was great or a16 lbd system was flawless.
Well, no one claimed you said that. It does not change the fact that so many here are stating that LBD of 16 was way better than perks in 17 and, IMHO, that is flatly not the case. Hell, there are people that are acting like the end of 7DtD is coming because of it. Those silly problems were all over a16's leveling system.
Further, I disagree with the idea that simple fixes can solve those problems. They are not simple balance issues or something that can be fixed through tweaking - they are fundamental flaws in a LBD system. You see these flaws in every game that has a LBD system - there are always going to be key low usage skills that have to be ?ground? in a very immersion breaking and un-fun manner.
LBD is just outright flawed - common pool exp is just a better overall framework.
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I have seen many people comment that LBD is more realistic and therefore more immersive.
Maybe it's just me, but I have seen many, many people who do the same thing every single day and never get better at it. You CAN improve a small amount by repeating the same steps over and over, but to really do something better you usually need to do it differently. You can do the same thing over and over and be doing it in an unsafe or inefficient way. Repeating something just develops muscle memory so you can do it faster and without thinking about it, not necessarily better.
Analyzing the way that you do something over and over to determine safer, more efficient ways of doing things is not something everyone does. Speaking only of my own observations, it seems to be something very few people do.
For me, perks are no less immersive. I spend my points after getting home for the day. I just rp that after completing my survival tasks, I spend time at night studying and practicing. The more efficiently I have used my day, the more study time I have. Even if I spent my day mining, I can still choose to study cooking or practice with my bow at night. I don't actually "see" myself doing that, but it is what I WOULD do to learn something. And I also don't "see myself sleeping or defecating, but I would be doing those things as well. They are just "edited out" of the game play for me.
Honestly, if you wanted to learn how to reset your phone to factory default, would you learn how by mashing buttons on your phone? No, you would google it or read the manual or something like that. Do you really think making bacon and eggs 100 times will teach you how to make stew? Whose stew would be better? The person who has never cooked before but downloaded a recipe, watched a video, and gave it a try... or the person who "winged it" after only making bacon and eggs 100 times?
To me, perks are at least and probably more immersive than LBD. Neither are game breaking for me, but perks are my preference and to me make no less sense than LBD.
Maybe it's just me, but I have seen many, many people who do the same thing every single day and never get better at it. You CAN improve a small amount by repeating the same steps over and over, but to really do something better you usually need to do it differently. You can do the same thing over and over and be doing it in an unsafe or inefficient way. Repeating something just develops muscle memory so you can do it faster and without thinking about it, not necessarily better.
Analyzing the way that you do something over and over to determine safer, more efficient ways of doing things is not something everyone does. Speaking only of my own observations, it seems to be something very few people do.
For me, perks are no less immersive. I spend my points after getting home for the day. I just rp that after completing my survival tasks, I spend time at night studying and practicing. The more efficiently I have used my day, the more study time I have. Even if I spent my day mining, I can still choose to study cooking or practice with my bow at night. I don't actually "see" myself doing that, but it is what I WOULD do to learn something. And I also don't "see myself sleeping or defecating, but I would be doing those things as well. They are just "edited out" of the game play for me.
Honestly, if you wanted to learn how to reset your phone to factory default, would you learn how by mashing buttons on your phone? No, you would google it or read the manual or something like that. Do you really think making bacon and eggs 100 times will teach you how to make stew? Whose stew would be better? The person who has never cooked before but downloaded a recipe, watched a video, and gave it a try... or the person who "winged it" after only making bacon and eggs 100 times?
To me, perks are at least and probably more immersive than LBD. Neither are game breaking for me, but perks are my preference and to me make no less sense than LBD.
RestInPieces
New member
Well, elaborate. Which are the fundamental problems that cannot be fixed?
Royal Deluxe
New member
There was a nice story, sadly i forgot biggest part of it.
But not the point.
Ask a idiot to solve a problem and he has no sollution
Ask a average person to solve a problem and he has one maybe 2 Sollutions
And in this story (that was about a Nobel Prize in Physics owner as he was in school) his teacher aked him how he can calculate the high of a building. And instead of giving him the answer the teacher has told the class the last hour nor the obvious other sollution he offered him 5 other ways to solve that.
Walmartforever
New member
Thanks, although after removing my land claim blok I was able to mine with explosives.
Dynamite do no harm to blocks so far i see this.
Use gas barrels and tnt
Ghostlight
New member
Well for me it's all about immersion and the connection I make with the character I am building. I cannot ignore it. If I want to get better at mining, the only way I should be able to do this is to mine. If I want to get better with a Shotgun, I need to spend a lot of time firing a Shotgun. Makes perfect sense to me. The A16 system of a soft cap of LBD before you can put a "hard point" into the related skill was sublime and one of the best I have ever encountered.
But let's turn everything I said on it's head. Why is not having LBD bad? Because it is stupid. The fact I can go out Mining all day then put a point in Olympic Swimmer, even though I have never swam a stroke in the game EVER, makes a huge disconnect and breaks the immersion. Not to mention it is laughable.
- - - Updated - - -
And have you seen someone never, ever do a thing yet suddenly get better at doing it? Thought not. See the difference?
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RestInPieces
New member
They don't have to be gated behind pure RNG. They could reliably be gated behind exploration.
Khulkhuum
New member
I would propose a different suggestion for using LBD. This would need to apply only to some perks/skills, because surely not all would be ideal for this train of thought. Additionally, amount of skillpoints received per level would need to be increased (or how fast you get them, so xp required for each level lowered).
Why not combine LBD with skill points? Using the skill increases the progression of that skill and when it's on a threshold (or maximum level) you can assign a SP to raise it one level higher.
EDIT: It could also be an experience bar, where each new level requires a number of points to rise to a higher level (just like overall level), so you don't just stop "practicing" until you level up your skill, but simply gather the skill xp and when you have high enough you can advance.
Alternate version: You need to find a skill book and use it to "learn" the better skill after you "practiced" it thoroughly. This would require such skillbooks to be quite common.
Alternate version 2: You need to visit a trainer (trader could work too) who will teach you the better skill for a small amount of coin.
Why not combine LBD with skill points? Using the skill increases the progression of that skill and when it's on a threshold (or maximum level) you can assign a SP to raise it one level higher.
EDIT: It could also be an experience bar, where each new level requires a number of points to rise to a higher level (just like overall level), so you don't just stop "practicing" until you level up your skill, but simply gather the skill xp and when you have high enough you can advance.
Alternate version: You need to find a skill book and use it to "learn" the better skill after you "practiced" it thoroughly. This would require such skillbooks to be quite common.
Alternate version 2: You need to visit a trainer (trader could work too) who will teach you the better skill for a small amount of coin.
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SxR
New member
I'd like a Learn By Doing thing again.. on top of what we have currently.
Hit rock-based blocks 500 times = 1% less stamina with pickaxes on swing, up to a max of like 15% - Same with digging with shovels and felling with axes.
Headshot 100 Zombies = 1% better aiming time up to 15%
Upgrade 100 blocks = 4% faster block upgrade/repair up to 60% (unless they retweaked the slow repair / upgrade speed as of 17.1)
sprinting 1000 meters = 1% less stamina used when sprinting, up to 15%
500 jumps = 1% less stamina used when jumping up to 15%
Hit rock-based blocks 500 times = 1% less stamina with pickaxes on swing, up to a max of like 15% - Same with digging with shovels and felling with axes.
Headshot 100 Zombies = 1% better aiming time up to 15%
Upgrade 100 blocks = 4% faster block upgrade/repair up to 60% (unless they retweaked the slow repair / upgrade speed as of 17.1)
sprinting 1000 meters = 1% less stamina used when sprinting, up to 15%
500 jumps = 1% less stamina used when jumping up to 15%
Ghostlight
New member
So....pretty much exactly how it was in A16?
In case any readers were unaware of the amazing skill system in A16, this is how it worked....
Take Mining. There were 2 skills involved with it....
Secondary Skill: Mining (max 100, starts at 1/100)
Primary Skill: Miner69er (max 5, starts at 0/5)
Both these skills would improve your yield when mining, though obviously the primary skill was far more significant of the two. The skills interacted as follows:
1. Performing actual mining slowly increased the Mining skill. You could place points into it to boost it but this was not necessary and not recommended. In fact it would be considered a waste of a point. Miner69er could only be increased by spending points.
2. Putting points in Miner69er was gated behind the current value you had in Mining. This you could not put a point into the the primary skill until the secondary skill hit a certain threshold (five thresholds, occurring at 20, 40, 60, 80, 100 I think it was).
Why this was awesome....
a) If you never mined at all in the game, Mining would be at 1/100 and Miner69er at 0/5 and you would suck at Mining.
b) You could not cheat the skill because of the LBD gate. So you could not place a point into the primary skill Miner69er until Mining hit 20.
c) To get Mining to 20 you had 3 choices:
- Spend 20 points in it (a terrible idea!!!)
- Go out and actually mine till Mining hits 20 (LBD - this was the most common approach)
- Hybrid: do some mining and also boost with points. Typically players might get Mining to 19 then just use a point to tip 20 so they could boost Miner69er asap.
Also pretty much everything you could do in the game came with a pair of skills like this (a primary skill gated behind a LBD secondary skill). So it was not 100% pure LBD, it was a very nicely designed hybrid that gave the player choice and that many found to be very satisfying and immersive.
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I stated what they are - low use skills that are important. There is no real viable way to fix leveling armor for instance - any method that levels this naturally with your other skills will be WAY to fast for someone that levels it manually. Hence why people sit on cacti. You see the identical problem in skyrim because they tried the same thing - armor skills simply do not work here. The same goes for medicine as well.
They fixed those problems with common pool exp.