PC Possible new Schematic System?

[Nexian]

So, I was thinking about how learning and schematics work and I think it'd be cool if the schematic system was a bit more generic and crafting didn't rely so heavily on intelligence (still).

Imagine instead of finding "Crucible Schematic" you found "Schematic". Schematics would be fairly common. Found in most types of piles, especially in bookstores.

Then you can craft:

Schematic Workbook - 5 Schematics

Schematic Folder - 5 Schematic Workbooks

After that you basically have schematic unlocks that require a certain number of different schematics.

Forge - 1 Schematic Workbook

Iron Pickaxe - 2 Schematics

Workbench - 4 Schematic Workbooks

Chemistry Station - 1 Schematic Folder

Crucible - 1 Schematic Folder

Then we could add the item Quality to it.

Iron Pickaxe Quality 2 - 2 Schematics

Iron Pickaxe Quality 3 - 3 Schematics

Iron Pickaxe Quality 4 - 4 Schematics

Iron Pickaxe Quality 5 - 1 Schematic Workbook

Iron Pickaxe Quality 6 - 1 Schematic Folder

(16 Schematics to rank 5, 41 to rank 6)

The idea is schematics will be something you always want to loot, only found as loot, but lets you choose your own path by "deciphering" them into whatever schematic you actually need.

We could then take out the crafting of the tools and items from skills. To replace this there could be Quality specific buffs. e.g.:

Miner 69er:

Block Damage increased by 20/40/60/80/100% plus 2/4/6/8/10% per Tool Quality

Then finally the Int tree could drop it's massive unlocks and have a more benefit-focused tree. It has some nice unlocks as is, but it can feel less mandatory.

Basically the current system can allow you to skip int, but you need to be very lucky to find each and every schematic, to the point you generally have to drop points in to get certain unlocks. This way you still find the schematics, but it's less random and more about what unlocks you want to focus on. It also means you are always wanting to loot, as it would take a LOT of schematics to unlock everything, but you never feel too far away from a schematic you're aiming for.

 

[Roland]

A game where you are guaranteed to get everything you want vs. a game where you have to adapt and make do with whatever you happen to get....

A game where you can max out everything and obtain everything vs a game where you have strengths and weaknesses and never obtain everything...

Everyone has their preference of which type of game they would like to play. The developers do favor the second type though they’ve made some concessions to those who like the first.

Your idea is interesting and cool from a design standpoint but I like the current reliance upon luck to get schematics and the fact that you might have to do without which constitutes a weakness or challenge for your character for that game.

But I realize that others hate that aspect in a game.

 

[Nexian]

Would it be any different except more loot-based?

Right now it's everything you want, but you have to give up combat skills. If you don't want to give up those combat skills early on you could find so many schematics and still not be able to make anything due to lacking "perquisite" schematics.

I suppose the issue here is I play with multiple people and we're at the point where we start a game and we have to decide who's going to be the one to not get to use fun skills so they can get the forge, and workbench, and chemistry station, and vehicles, and electricity, and steel, cement, everything, all in one tree. The only saving grace is junk turrets because it sure as hell isn't stun batons (these might be better if they stunned enemies instead of having them stand in place).

If not the different schematics then it'd be nice to splash these about and let int have less packed into it. A forge could fit into Strength, a Workbench in Fortitude, Chemistry Station in Perception, Grease Monkey in Agility, and electronics remaining in Int, etc. That would keep the whole not having everything (more so, since one person can't get it all in one tree).

The core issue is it feels like Int is just a stacked up crafting tree and going in there feels like a chore you have to do, especially with a group. And there's no option to share the burden, why all shove 7+ points into Int when one guy can?

At the same time the schematic system could work to limit how much you can learn. Like you can only use a total schematics equal to your level, making it a personal specialisation, but not one tied to your levelling skill options. Going by the above costs this would also make choosing to be able to craft a Quality 6 tool a hefty specialisation in that specific item. (to the point I'd say it might be too much at that point). Also with current schematics you CAN have everything given enough time. This system could then make it so you literally need to choose.

 

[Roland]

Good points. Especially in regards to multiplayer. But, again, it is only because you want access to everything from early game on all nicely and conveniently set up in your base.

The truth is nobody must take crafting if nobody wants to or everyone finds it boring in your group. As a team you should be able to cover more area and find working workstations or schematics for them or a trader that is selling them.

You just don’t want to wait that long and you’d rather pick one person to take that role.

Your last line is telling that what you really want is everything early. The current system does let you eventually get everything but you would have to play many many hours to accomplish that which, btw, is exactly what the devs want to accomplish.

If someone in your group wants and likes to play heavy intelligence then that’s great but it certainly isn’t a requirement unless you insist that you have to have a forge in your own base by day two.

 

[RestInPieces]

In A17 it was far worse because everything was under INT. Currently recipes are at least much better distributed than before and INT is quite decent for exploration.

I had suggested a separate research system for recipes that depended on exploration too (inspecting ruined props to complete their schematics, similar to Subnautica's), but not with generic schematics. I think there is great value in finding unique schematics VS choosing how you will use them, because that brings diversity to each playthrough.

 

[Nexian]

Your last line is telling that what you really want is everything early. The current system does let you eventually get everything but you would have to play many many hours to accomplish that which, btw, is exactly what the devs want to accomplish.

I think these things could still be distributed at the same scale in different trees. i.e. a workbench would need the same number of points invested in Fortitude that it would have needed in Int. So the result would mean more total skillpoints would need spending (due to stats). I do not need things early, but I dislike the idea of relying on random chance.

We do have more people, but this also meant by Day 14 we had zombies breaking through concrete walls in large numbers. I can't imagine how easily that many zombies would be melting through something like flagstone. The telling part should be that I want to NOT have to jump into INT to have guarantees. I don't need everything, just something.

Ironically the Schematic system would lock us out of crafts for much longer than cramming points into INT. By day 7 with int you can have the Forge, Workbench, Cement Mixer and Chemistry Station (we also had fully completed concrete walls, minibikes and electric fences). I feel like if stations needed schematics we would not be able to get all of them. I suppose one issue with the initial proposal is I made the stations have a cost relative to their stat costs, when realistically it should be relative to how long you should be expected to scavenge for them.

Maybe the current issue is that getting everything by Day 7 is so easy (but incredibly boring given the tree) that the random chance seems like it's almost a gimmick. Most of the schematics we find just go to someone who doesn't already know how to make it, as we learned it long before finding it.

We could indeed choose to not take INT, but that feels like a gimmick in itself. It's like choosing to fight naked with fists only while having easy access to insane gear.

edit: The one thing we really do try to find though is a crucible or crucible schematic. That seems like the only item that is worth searching for over skilling for as you need steel long before you get to 10 INT.

- Also, I don't disagree with your points. But I think there needs to be less of a gap between choosing from complete random chance and having almost everything on day 7.

 

[meganoth]

There is A19, where (according to MM) several perks will be reduced to 3 perk points or even dismantled and redistributed (yeah science). We'll see how it works out but it is a step in the general direction you want

Note that other players (especially people who like to be crafters) complain a lot about weapons and armor NOT being under INT anymore.

In my experience it is totally feasable for a group or a single player to just put one point into the one int perk to get you a forge and otherwise try to find everything else through scavenging (either look for workstations in POIs and/or look for the recipes). Finding workbench and chemstation recipes in broken workbenches is almost too easy. Anything else is replacable.