PC POLL: Would you like to see food spoilage added?

[Ghostlight]

Well I am not sure if it was already mentioned in this thread, but food spoilage is already in game via the % chance you have of being poisoned from eating cooked or boiling foods vs canned.

Actually that is a very interesting and good point. You eat Bacon and Eggs and get poisoning, so your Stamina drops to almost zero. To recover it you'd need to eat 3 Meat Stews. Let's just imagine those 3 Stews spoiled. Presto!

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Let me just say that when I raided a shamway and found a couple of meat stews, I kept them.
Cough

Warning. Once your group are all skin and bones from starvation, while you are mysteriously plump, the next item on the menu will be....YOU!

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In A19, or maybe after, I'm pretty sure the best recipes will include both fresh and canned food

I think that is already the case. The best recipe I've seen (from picking up the schematic) was Fish Tacos (56 Stamina I believe). That uses canned Salmon and....something else i forget.....but it is a fresh ingredient.

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Here's a question. If spoilage were implemented, what could you do with the spoiled food? Just toss it?

It could be used as ammo in the Junk turret. Let's make it even more OP!

 

[ZombieSurvivor]

Here's a question. If spoilage were implemented, what could you do with the spoiled food? Just toss it? Can't really make it a replacement for rotten flesh in farm plots because that would just defeat the purpose of adding it in the first place.

Maybe it can be used as the new glass. I'm down for more ways of committing suicide.

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Actually that is a very interesting and good point. You eat Bacon and Eggs and get poisoning, so your Stamina drops to almost zero. To recover it you'd need to eat 3 Meat Stews. Let's just imagine those 3 Stews spoiled. Presto!

What if they added a perk that allowed you to eat rotten food and not have any ill effects, would that help solve this problem?

 

[Liesel Weppen]

For 8 people in the same area, I would think at least 2 of them would need to be Fortitude builds with Living Off the Land and Huntsman perked up. Very few people would want to put points into these.

I am one of these people.

Food was a real struggle on our server with 4 players until i got lotl to 4 and masterchef to atleast 3 (or found some reasonable receipe books).

I can feed the other 3 players easily. I could also easily feed 7 others. You just need to make the garden bigger.

I also have some hunting skills (i use the sniper rifle anyway), but they turned out to be really pointless.

Meat is not a problem. We always run across some pigs, deers, wolfs and so on while driving to trader quests or looting some pois, ... we never had to explizitly search for meat. We don't even look after small animals like rabbits or chicken. They are anyoing to hunt and give to few ressources. Although we never explizitly hunted for meat, we now have ~15 stacks of meat. And it becomes more and more, since it doesn't spoil. We already started to sell cooked meals to the trader, because i can cook so much we never know what to do with all the food.

What we have the least is eggs. But they are not that important as there are enough meals to cook without eggs. People are to lazy to jump of their motorcycle just to look into a birds nest. We additionally buy them from traders, if they have some. Since there is no spoilage, we buy all the trader sells.

Second one is animal fat. Still far enough, but much lesser than meat.

Third is rotten meat, but that you only need once for crafting the farm plots (or cooking hobo stew).

And besids of that, on day ~80 now, no one ever got food poisoning.

And that's why i'd like to see food spoilage, because food is not an issue at all. With the lotl-skill it doesn't even need management. Harvest, put all in some storage, forget about it. Occasionally cook meals in bulk. Sell meals to trader if your food chest is full anyway and you don't want to build a second one.

Asking those who are only eating canned food: Multiplayer or singleplayer? Doesn't living of cans only, even in singleplayer, force you to some nomad playstyle? Or do you play with loot respawn every 3 days?

Or only run trader fetch quests, which are free loot respawn (which is more worth than every reward the trader gives you)?

In the meanwhile we stopped "regular" looting completely. We only do trader quests anymore, because they are free respawn, never run out, they are always at the same places where we already have loot chests placed and they give you an additional reward (XP, dukes and an item).

 

[n2n1]

Just because *you* don't know or can't imagine any other way to implement the spoilage system doesn't mean someone else can't. There are lots of people out there with great ideas and can come up with good designs.

Wrong again. People generally use exploit to make things easier for them. They can still accept the mechanics/system and still use the exploit just because they can. But in the case of starvation mod, it is only an exploit if you make it out to be or use it explicitly. I played starvation mod for over a few hundred hours so know a little about how the spoilage works in the game. I guess the 'exploit' you spoke of in Starvation was food didn't spoil in the campfire output. Think about it. If food could spoil in the campfire's output box you'd be forced to babysit each and every individual perishable food created at the campfire. Stacks of food especially high level ones could take a long time to make. Do you really want to sit there and wait for them to finish? If you enable spoilage in campfires if you leave and come back any newly crafted food would spoil. It's also possible the mod's developers didn't know to make spoilage work with campfire outputs as well. Now explicitly placing/storing food in there just because it doesn't spoil is another thing but it is up the user if they want to do that.

Also Starvation mod spoilage system was configurable. You could change spoilage settings in one or more .XML files and can disable food spoilage if you wanted. Anyone who didn't like spoilage in starvation could easily disable it.

I liked their system. Food spoiled which in turn could be converted into fertilizer (back when fertilizer was used for farming). To slow down spoilage you could use the icebox or create a fridge (powered by electricity) to store your goods.

Spoilage does add challenge to survival games and I for one hope TFP will someday implement this feature in their game. In my current A18 game, I have over several chests full of stacks of stews, meat and potatoes, all drinks, etc.

I'm not against directly against the challenge which gives some of the game elements. But as i said - i not saw on practice that this works and not read good proposals about this (which suitable for 7dtd case). This of course not means that their there is no, but for me - their there is no. And i myself can not imagine the mechanics that it really worked within 7dtd. If it is done and it will work on the gameplay - i am deeply for, I am always for complication... But i just really doubt it. You will not get anything from the developers in addition to "perks" and the "yellow water"...

... ok, maybe i should have voted "neutral", because the question was whether or not i want to spoil in the game, without specifying the details. Now, I would have voted "neutral".

... Well, well, i must confess that I voted in a state of passion... i had to.... blame the developers.... i was shocked by what they did to the game.... maybe when my condition improves i'll vote "Yeah sure".

But... I would advise you to be careful what you wish for.

I'm afraid, that Madmole will introduce in the answer - static-terrain under the pretext of liberation proceSSor resources which requires implementation of spoilage.

 

[Katitof]

I think that ship has sailed, plus it would serve no purpose as long as we have all-year round farms.

 

[Ghostlight]

Asking those who are only eating canned food: Multiplayer or singleplayer? Doesn't living of cans only, even in singleplayer, force you to some nomad playstyle? Or do you play with loot respawn every 3 days?Or only run trader fetch quests, which are free loot respawn (which is more worth than every reward the trader gives you)?

Most cans are bought from the vending machines you find at every trader and some POIs. They are reasonably priced and restock every day. In addition, traders' Buried Supplies quest chest often give a large amount of cans early game, not as the reward, but as extra items inside the supply chest itself. Thirdly, looting any POIs with kitchens can give planet of cans of course, and finally, airdrops very commonly have a lot of food in them, usually cans.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

But isn't then half the game dedicated to run for food? Do you go to the trader every day to buy out all vending machines? Do you prefer burried supplies, just because of food? And i still assume, this might work in SP, but it is still quite unsufficient for MP, at least what i usually see in the traders vending machines would not feed our 4 players for one day.

The canned food gives so low food value, it's not only anoying to get them, but also you have to eat tons of them to get your food up, or eat one every 5min to keep your food up.

 

[ZombieSurvivor]

I am one of these people. Food was a real struggle on our server with 4 players until i got lotl to 4 and masterchef to atleast 3 (or found some reasonable receipe books).

I can feed the other 3 players easily. I could also easily feed 7 others. You just need to make the garden bigger.

I also have some hunting skills (i use the sniper rifle anyway), but they turned out to be really pointless.

Meat is not a problem. We always run across some pigs, deers, wolfs and so on while driving to trader quests or looting some pois, ... we never had to explizitly search for meat. We don't even look after small animals like rabbits or chicken. They are anyoing to hunt and give to few ressources. Although we never explizitly hunted for meat, we now have ~15 stacks of meat. And it becomes more and more, since it doesn't spoil. We already started to sell cooked meals to the trader, because i can cook so much we never know what to do with all the food.

What we have the least is eggs. But they are not that important as there are enough meals to cook without eggs. People are to lazy to jump of their motorcycle just to look into a birds nest. We additionally buy them from traders, if they have some. Since there is no spoilage, we buy all the trader sells.

Second one is animal fat. Still far enough, but much lesser than meat.

Third is rotten meat, but that you only need once for crafting the farm plots (or cooking hobo stew).

And besids of that, on day ~80 now, no one ever got food poisoning.

And that's why i'd like to see food spoilage, because food is not an issue at all. With the lotl-skill it doesn't even need management. Harvest, put all in some storage, forget about it. Occasionally cook meals in bulk. Sell meals to trader if your food chest is full anyway and you don't want to build a second one.

Asking those who are only eating canned food: Multiplayer or singleplayer? Doesn't living of cans only, even in singleplayer, force you to some nomad playstyle? Or do you play with loot respawn every 3 days?

Or only run trader fetch quests, which are free loot respawn (which is more worth than every reward the trader gives you)?

In the meanwhile we stopped "regular" looting completely. We only do trader quests anymore, because they are free respawn, never run out, they are always at the same places where we already have loot chests placed and they give you an additional reward (XP, dukes and an item).

What length are your days set to?

 

[Ghostlight]

But isn't then half the game dedicated to run for food?

In the first few days, yes. And for Jars too, for water.

Do you go to the trader every day to buy out all vending machines?

Yes. Our first few days in the game are usually spent near the trader going back and forward doing Buried Supplies.

Do you prefer burried supplies, just because of food?

Yes, and also because it is the quickest and easiest quest type. We always pray he has such quest types (sometime he does not and that can be a game-changer) and that they are close by (within 500m).

And i still assume, this might work in SP, but it is still quite unsufficient for MP

It's even better for MP since every player can get his own set of Buried Supplies quests and share with the others. If someone's trader has 3 or 4 Buried Supplies quests early, it's like Christmas! If you find a couple of traders near each other early, it's like two Christmases!!

The canned food gives so low food value, it's not only anoying to get them, but also you have to eat tons of them to get your food up, or eat one every 5min to keep your food up.

Depends what you are doing. Working all day like mining, or running everywhere, then yes you will burn Stamina and need a lot of cans. Exploring slowly and general looting, no, you burn very little. We do not exert ourselves early game (say days 1 to 4) and we always take Rule 1 Cardio and Sexy T-Rexy perks early. Only around day 5 do we start resource gathering, mining, and building in earnest and that is when we need all the food. Also, never, ever EVER drink Water. Always Red Tea, which greatly reduces Stamina usage when working - someone always takes Masterchef 1 so we always have Red Tea. This is super-important.

I am not saying we ONLY eat cans, but early game when food poisoning can be devastating to a player we focus on massing cans. We occasionally have to risk it and supplement cans with other things too of course, usually Bacon and Eggs early game. As I said above one of us ALWAYS takes Masterchef 1. But cans is the safe option and there are plenty of ways to get them.

 

[ktr]

Warning. Once your group are all skin and bones from starvation, while you are mysteriously plump, the next item on the menu will be....YOU

If they didn't always forget to mod their guns, maybe

 

[Limdood]

I'd like to see vending machines stop taking dukes....only paper money. Makes more sense, vending machine restock would be less of an issue. They'd still be valuable, but no longer endless.

I'd like to see a "recipe" for rotten meat. Like 2 meat and 1 clay = 1 rotten meat (for making farm plots)

I'd like to never see food spoilage in this game. The only game I play that has food spoilage is Starbound, and that aspect alone is annoying enough that I turn off hunger altogether, JUST due to food spoilage.

 

[Birkenhoff]

I think TFP has a plan about what to do with food in the future and I'm pretty sure it won't be spoilage in a classic way.

 

[ZombieSurvivor]

I think the same exact thing, it will be Split right down the middle. It will be interesting to see end results.

Interesting so far.

Votes as of this post.

Total: 98

No. 58 59.19%

Yes. 28 28.57%

Stoners to high to care. 12 12.24%

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Eh? That makes no sense. If I have 2 hour days and I mine for the entire day, and you have 1 hour days and do the same (with same stats and equipment). Surely by the next day I will have double the resources you have and will have used double the stamina?


Then already it is confusing. I play on 90 minute days, and if I mine for a full day straight, it takes 3 Meat Stews to return me to 100% Stamina.

Yes, you will have double the resources and would have used double the stamina... but this means nothing. You are comparing 2 hours of real time to one hour of real time. I can choose to mine for 2 days straight in a 1 hr game and it is exactly the same as mining for 1 game day in a 2 hr game. They are exactly the same. On 10 minute days, I could mine for 12 days to meet the same exact real time, the same exact resource gain, the same exact stamina usage. This is why day length means nothing in your stamina usage.

 

[Gr.o.m.]

I voted - "No I like the game as is." I will explain why.This system has already been implemented in the "Starvation" mod. It didn't really work.

I've noticed that all the people use tricks to avoid spoilage.

Unfortunately is only annoying, but does not bring anything good. This is good only in imagination but in practice things are not so.

Well said.

 

[HungryZombie]

In the first few days, yes. And for Jars too, for water.


Yes. Our first few days in the game are usually spent near the trader going back and forward doing Buried Supplies.

Yes, and also because it is the quickest and easiest quest type. We always pray he has such quest types (sometime he does not and that can be a game-changer) and that they are close by (within 500m).

It's even better for MP since every player can get his own set of Buried Supplies quests and share with the others. If someone's trader has 3 or 4 Buried Supplies quests early, it's like Christmas! If you find a couple of traders near each other early, it's like two Christmases!!

Depends what you are doing. Working all day like mining, or running everywhere, then yes you will burn Stamina and need a lot of cans. Exploring slowly and general looting, no, you burn very little. We do not exert ourselves early game (say days 1 to 4) and we always take Rule 1 Cardio and Sexy T-Rexy perks early. Only around day 5 do we start resource gathering, mining, and building in earnest and that is when we need all the food. Also, never, ever EVER drink Water. Always Red Tea, which greatly reduces Stamina usage when working - someone always takes Masterchef 1 so we always have Red Tea. This is super-important.

I am not saying we ONLY eat cans, but early game when food poisoning can be devastating to a player we focus on massing cans. We occasionally have to risk it and supplement cans with other things too of course, usually Bacon and Eggs early game. As I said above one of us ALWAYS takes Masterchef 1. But cans is the safe option and there are plenty of ways to get them.

This is a very good description of the state of hunger management in the game and you make it sound like TFP's have a decent system in place. Early game you hang near a trader and do some quests, later as you develop you start mining resources, building a base and looking for better sources of food.

 

[Noctoras]

I don't really care about food spoilage. Can be in, can be out. It definitely should not be a priority in the game.

If I had to choose, I would rather opt for more different food items and thus making the food tree more interesting. Spoilage basically just adds timers to it and makes the game even more grindy. Rather add stuff like cucumbers or tomatoes and give them a purpose to make them worth finding or cultivating. Or more of the supercorn kind of stuff, don't know.

I don't see an urgent need for spoilage, although I would not mind it either.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

What length are your days set to?

50 min. Loot respawn is 30 days because the other wanted to have respawn. I personally would prefer without loot respawn, even in previous alphas. Now the more since the trader quests give you a workaround anyway.

Yes, and also because it is the quickest and easiest quest type.

And imho the one with the lowest reward.

It's even better for MP since every player can get his own set of Buried Supplies quests and share with the others. If someone's trader has 3 or 4 Buried Supplies quests early, it's like Christmas!

That's right. The questsharing makes it some kind of even more overpowered.

Only around day 5 do we start resource gathering, mining, and building in earnest and that is when we need all the food. Also, never, ever EVER drink Water. Always Red Tea, which greatly reduces Stamina usage when working - someone always takes Masterchef 1 so we always have Red Tea. This is super-important.

We did it almost the same way. First BM we did in an POI, after that we started building our own base. We drank water in the beginning and occasionally somebody got dysternity, but that's not a huge problem either as you can cure it with golden tea.

I am not saying we ONLY eat cans, but early game when food poisoning can be devastating to a player we focus on massing cans. We occasionally have to risk it and supplement cans with other things too of course, usually Bacon and Eggs early game. As I said above one of us ALWAYS takes Masterchef 1. But cans is the safe option and there are plenty of ways to get them.

In the first days we had no other chance then eat cans. As soon as i was able to cook e.g meat stew (which was by learning masterchef 2, because we found no such books before day ~20) i could cook enough meat stew that food poisoning never would become a problem, and even if somebody might have gotten food poisoning, we already had vitamins.

The main issue with self cooking meals was not the master chef perk, but the living of the land skill, finding crops (or vegetables and craft the crops), waiting for them to grow, then use them to multiply seeds until you have finally a set of plants which earns you enough to cook.

 

[Laz Man]

I am one of these people. Food was a real struggle on our server with 4 players until i got lotl to 4 and masterchef to atleast 3 (or found some reasonable receipe books).

I can feed the other 3 players easily. I could also easily feed 7 others. You just need to make the garden bigger.

I also have some hunting skills (i use the sniper rifle anyway), but they turned out to be really pointless.

Meat is not a problem. We always run across some pigs, deers, wolfs and so on while driving to trader quests or looting some pois, ... we never had to explizitly search for meat. We don't even look after small animals like rabbits or chicken. They are anyoing to hunt and give to few ressources. Although we never explizitly hunted for meat, we now have ~15 stacks of meat. And it becomes more and more, since it doesn't spoil. We already started to sell cooked meals to the trader, because i can cook so much we never know what to do with all the food.

What we have the least is eggs. But they are not that important as there are enough meals to cook without eggs. People are to lazy to jump of their motorcycle just to look into a birds nest. We additionally buy them from traders, if they have some. Since there is no spoilage, we buy all the trader sells.

Second one is animal fat. Still far enough, but much lesser than meat.

Third is rotten meat, but that you only need once for crafting the farm plots (or cooking hobo stew).

And besids of that, on day ~80 now, no one ever got food poisoning.

And that's why i'd like to see food spoilage, because food is not an issue at all. With the lotl-skill it doesn't even need management. Harvest, put all in some storage, forget about it. Occasionally cook meals in bulk. Sell meals to trader if your food chest is full anyway and you don't want to build a second one.

Asking those who are only eating canned food: Multiplayer or singleplayer? Doesn't living of cans only, even in singleplayer, force you to some nomad playstyle? Or do you play with loot respawn every 3 days?

Or only run trader fetch quests, which are free loot respawn (which is more worth than every reward the trader gives you)?

In the meanwhile we stopped "regular" looting completely. We only do trader quests anymore, because they are free respawn, never run out, they are always at the same places where we already have loot chests placed and they give you an additional reward (XP, dukes and an item).

....or the current system just needs some more balancing but only if you beat the food survival aspect way to early. Given enough game time, I think the player or team should become self sufficient where food is not a huge concern anymore.

Another way to balance things out and the forums may kill me is to make the farm plots have limited number of output before having to create new one...

 

[Ghostlight]

Yes, you will have double the resources and would have used double the stamina... but this means nothing. You are comparing 2 hours of real time to one hour of real time. I can choose to mine for 2 days straight in a 1 hr game and it is exactly the same as mining for 1 game day in a 2 hr game. They are exactly the same. On 10 minute days, I could mine for 12 days to meet the same exact real time, the same exact resource gain, the same exact stamina usage. This is why day length means nothing in your stamina usage.

But vending machines are the biggest source of cans and they restock daily. So....that's what I was getting at. Your 10 minute day guy got 12 days worth of cans to buy, so has a very easy time versus spoilage. Your 2 hour day guy had only 1 visit to the vending machine and thus will require supplements - that can spoil - so he is far more susceptible to spoilage.