PC Please rescue Multiplayer in A20 !!!

Evil_Geoff said:
EOS sux.  Until THEY can fix their problems with the server search, remove EOS implementation.  Screw Micro$lop and crossplay until that mess is fixed. 
 
Click to expand...
K. One condition - give them 10 000 000 Dollars. Why? They made a deal with MS and such big companies offten add a lot of things in their contracts - so there will be contractual penalties. And often are such big that can make small studio go default. So don't care about  MS is bad idea unless you have a lot free  $$$ to spend. If you have - i think you can try to convice TFP about that . If not - well just use to it or earn money for that

bandersnatch said:
Whenever I see options being removed, mechanics being dumbed down and features being stripped out, I always assume its for the sake of console porting.  So many good PC games that were never going to work on consoles have been crippled this way.  I've got no faith left in TFP after eight long years but how I'd love to see them prove me wrong.  How incredible would it be to see this game reach its true potential, console peasants be damned.  Nobody gets an XB or PSX to play stuff with this kind of scale, depth and customization anyway.
Click to expand...
This is about 7dtd windows shop and gamepass version and  steam version crossplay

 
Just to get this clear since a lot just add offtopic things into this thread.

This is only about most annoying things we can't fix server-side and which have a very negative impact on MP server.

If you don't play on MP servers or don't host them this is nothing you have to care about.

This is only an attempt to get some attention by TFP to care at least for those 4 issues.

This game has many issues, it's still alpha, this is not about those things.

I don't think I've asked for much to get those things fixed, if this would be a rant about fixing all the bugs in this game it I would have provided a very very very long list of bugs. So please stop leading this into other directions and stop defeing TFP over something which has no impact on you.

The game is great and I will continue to host servers, but I see that some things should be fixed asap to give MP servers at least a chance.

 
Zipcore said:
Just to get this clear since a lot just add offtopic things into this thread.

This is only about most annoying things we can't fix server-side and which have a very negative impact on MP server.

If you don't play on MP servers or don't host them this is nothing you have to care about.

This is only an attempt to get some attention by TFP to care at least for those 4 issues.

This game has many issues, it's still alpha, this is not about those things.

I don't think I've asked for much to get those things fixed, if this would be a rant about fixing all the bugs in this game it I would have provided a very very very long list of bugs. So please stop leading this into other directions and stop defeing TFP over something which has no impact on you.

The game is great and I will continue to host servers, but I see that some things should be fixed asap to give MP servers at least a chance.
Click to expand...
i will try to explain - 7DTD was added into MS store. So... they know about problems. But is not easy to fix this. If I good understand you play above 8 players servers right? so this not their faul. So this have impact for us all. Because this need time.  1 , 2 ,3 problems are probably connected with crossplay changes and last one - it exist if you play in small group (4-8) too? 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Matt115 said:
i will try to explain - 7DTD was added into MS store. So... they know about problems. But is not easy to fix this. If I good understand you play above 8 players servers right? so this not their faul. So this have impact for us all. Because this need time.  1 , 2 ,3 problems are probably connected with crossplay changes and last one - it exist if you play in small group (4-8) too? 
Click to expand...


"...it exist if you play in small group (4-8) too?"

Yes, every issue Zipcore posted at the top of this page has been reported to happen even in multiplayer with as few as 2 people. [edit; grammar]

I think everyone here believes that TFP will continue to do the best they can and try to deliver a great gaming experience.
But I also think that it helps to provide feedback. This is what everyone is trying to do in their own way.

I see that you're attempting to explain that TFP are going to work at it.

I also expect that TFP will work at improving the experience.
 

Since this thread is focused on 4 key issues with the multiplayer experience and you have already explained you lack knowledge on managing an open server for 7 Days to Die or playing 7 Days to Die with others, I can only assume that you're here to learn more about the experience?

Allow me to reset expectations a little and offer some clarifying information to help provide the extra context that seems to be missing:

  1. I have personally experienced most of the issues Zipcore posted with as few as 2 players.


    And yes, that map never had more than 2 players play on it at any time, ever.
  2. From the beginning, TFP described their ideal game as "Walking Dead + Minecraft with your friends". Multiplayer has always been a central part of the experience and represents the ultimate target of the game.
  3. The only issue I haven't personally encountered yet is the floating/base-destroying tree. I am aware of other admins/servers/communities struggling with this bug, though.

[*]While TFP officially support single player and peer-to-peer 'friendly co-op' multiplayer, they do also officially support dedicated servers.

  1. In fact, they deploy a dedicated server build with every release to Steam and this is what we use to host these games.
  2. It's entirely understandable that someone who only plays single player would not be aware of this, but now you know.

[*]TFP actually support up to 16 since A20's release.

  1. You can click to start a new game right now in A20 and see this for yourself: 8 players remains the default, but you can click the right arrow (since A20) and select 16 players as an officially supported option for peer-to-peer games. So if you decide to play multiplayer one day, you can invite 15 of your friends (or maybe even more, if 7DTD supports more by then).
  2. Sure, 7 Days to Die will never become Rust with 300 players per server and that's ok. We want 7 Days to Die to be 7 Days to Die.

[*]No software or game will ever be perfect. TFP were very kind to support official streams of modding. So as modders and sever admins, we spend a fair amount of our free time fixing bugs to help support the intended experiences that TFP were going for and sharing those fixes/mods with others.

  1. They didn't ask us to do this. We just started doing it on our own because we love 7 Days to Die. 
  2. Zipcore has released dozens of multiplayer fixes and has helped a lot of admins and players out as a result.
  3. The issues Zipcore posted are the kinds of issues that cannot be modded or fixed with modding.
  4. TFP are smart people, but nobody can know all things at all times. They ask for our feedback and this post is one way that the community seeks to provide feedback. Yeah, it seems a little hostile. But I hope you can appreciate that it's coming from a good place: from a love for 7 Days to Die and the desire for it to remain as one of the best zombie survival multiplayer experiences.

Anyhow, hopefully this helps to provide a foundation for what and why we're discussing in this thread.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
kanaverum said:
"...it exist if you play in small group (4-8) too?"

Yes, every issue Zipcore posted at the top of this page has been reported to happen even in multiplayer with as few as 2 people. [edit; grammar]

I think everyone here believes that TFP will continue to do the best they can and try to deliver a great gaming experience.
But I also think that it helps to provide feedback. This is what everyone is trying to do in their own way.

I see that you're attempting to explain that TFP are going to work at it.

I also expect that TFP will work at improving the experience.
 

Since this thread is focused on 4 key issues with the multiplayer experience and you have already explained you lack knowledge on managing an open server for 7 Days to Die or playing 7 Days to Die with others, I can only assume that you're here to learn more about the experience?

Allow me to reset expectations a little and offer some clarifying information to help provide the extra context that seems to be missing:

  1. I have personally experienced most of the issues Zipcore posted with as few as 2 players.


    And yes, that map never had more than 2 players play on it at any time, ever.
  2. From the beginning, TFP described their ideal game as "Walking Dead + Minecraft with your friends". Multiplayer has always been a central part of the experience and represents the ultimate target of the game.
  3. The only issue I haven't personally encountered yet is the floating/base-destroying tree. I am aware of other admins/servers/communities struggling with this bug, though.

[*]While TFP officially support single player and peer-to-peer 'friendly co-op' multiplayer, they do also officially support dedicated servers.

  1. In fact, they deploy a dedicated server build with every release to Steam and this is what we use to host these games.
  2. It's entirely understandable that someone who only plays single player would not be aware of this, but now you know.

[*]TFP actually support up to 16 since A20's release.

  1. You can click to start a new game right now in A20 and see this for yourself: 8 players remains the default, but you can click the right arrow (since A20) and select 16 players as an officially supported option for peer-to-peer games. So if you decide to play multiplayer one day, you can invite 15 of your friends (or maybe even more, if 7DTD supports more by then).
  2. Sure, 7 Days to Die will never become Rust with 300 players per server and that's ok. We want 7 Days to Die to be 7 Days to Die.

[*]No software or game will ever be perfect. TFP were very kind to support official streams of modding. So as modders and sever admins, we spend a fair amount of our free time fixing bugs to help support the intended experiences that TFP were going for and sharing those fixes/mods with others.

  1. They didn't ask us to do this. We just started doing it on our own because we love 7 Days to Die. 
  2. Zipcore has released dozens of multiplayer fixes and has helped a lot of admins and players out as a result.
  3. The issues Zipcore posted are the kinds of issues that cannot be modded or fixed with modding.
  4. TFP are smart people, but nobody can know all things at all times. They ask for our feedback and this post is one way that the community seeks to provide feedback. Yeah, it seems a little hostile. But I hope you can appreciate that it's coming from a good place: from a love for 7 Days to Die and the desire for it to remain as one of the best zombie survival multiplayer experiences.

Anyhow, hopefully this helps to provide a foundation for what and why we're discussing in this thread.
Click to expand...
Well i played with my friend and i hadn't such bugs since A16-A17 ( only bigger bug is "invisible" tree if you are few metres away from them.

1.2 yep but small 8 people max 

2.1 and 2.2 - if you mean rent of outside server --> this is not offical one

3. Still - as few people said -- > they test for 8 people. if there is more that 8 --> it's your risk. In older MP game ( i'm not sure which one) offical safe number was 32 player but you could increase even to 128 but on your own risk

4. And... that's their choose what they doing with free time. So - if you buy game in EA you can expect that there will be tons of bugs, updates can change a lot etc. - Well now updates are rare , that's is unfortunatly true and... that's problem. If updates were offten - like in MC. This... would be no problem. Why? if there was after 2-3 month new version of game --> this mean mods had to be updated often because a lot of things changes.  So there woudn't be problems like this becasue... everyone will know that's will be "stable" only for few months. 

And about last one - that's coming from bad place.  Just check older alpha like a11 - hard, dark, a lot of corpses ( you can that now is more corpses but -  now you don't have corpses radomly on streets), food spoiled, corpse decying, loot stage etc. and it was scrapped because "we want to have fun with friends so X is too hard". 7dtd had to be one of the most climatix 7dtd but what we have now? mad max with zombies.  And 7dtd in now so far from WD - i don't mean headshot zombie. I mean - art style, zombie types. loot etc.  you can say "you are frustrated" and yeah it's true because 7dtd had soo good base but so many people were " it's bad because unfun in MP", good game don't have to be fun to be good game- 

 
Matt115 said:
So.. do it. And after that publish this and if this will be working good there is a chance that TFP will ask you about that
Click to expand...
They don't like the region filter they could simply register all servers in the same region and make a pseudoregion search field for regions if they like to keep that. They don't need my code to fix this issue for everyone.

And yes it works well. Had to figure 2 things out which I could solve with little tricks.

I would be more interested if TFP would implement the fixes of my mods which solve major issues in this game and oh boy I fixed a lot and there is still so much more.

They can hire me if they want and I fix the bugs, I'm good in bug hunting, I would simply prefer to fix them directly in the game, mods should be no permanent solution.

 
Zipcore said:
They don't like the region filter they could simply register all servers in the same region and make a pseudoregion search field for regions if they like to keep that. They don't need my code to fix this issue for everyone.

And yes it works well. Had to figure 2 things out which I could solve with little tricks.

I would be more interested if TFP would implement the fixes of my mods which solve major issues in this game and oh boy I fixed a lot and there is still so much more.

They can hire me if they want and I fix the bugs, I'm good in bug hunting, I would simply prefer to fix them directly in the game, mods should be no permanent solution.
Click to expand...
Well... this is not solution.  This is connected with MS and steam versions of game - if manage to do this + play with someone using gamepass/MS store version you can say that you solved this problem

Your solution probably will not work in crossplay scenario

 
Roland said:
Nobody from TFP has yet claimed that they are finished 
Click to expand...
Did you not read what he was saying? #zipcore "I would be more interested if TFP would implement the fixes of my mods which solve major issues in this game"

Most anybody who has seen his fixs knows exactly how huge they are- especially those veteran players like myself who been around X amount of years. I have witnessed many other coders and modders try to fix what he has been able to do but failed. The way this guy can fix bugs TFP would be foolish to not listen to what he has to say.

 
Grandpa Minion said:
Did you not read what he was saying? #zipcore "I would be more interested if TFP would implement the fixes of my mods which solve major issues in this game"

Most anybody who has seen his fixs knows exactly how huge they are- especially those veteran players like myself who been around X amount of years. I have witnessed many other coders and modders try to fix what he has been able to do but failed. The way this guy can fix bugs TFP would be foolish to not listen to what he has to say.
Click to expand...


Sure I read it. How does that change my response? What does that have to do with my response? Has zipcore put in an application with The Fun Pimps? I have no idea. Maybe they should. 

Regardless, the idea that anyone's current mod for Alpha 20 bugs represents a permanent fix since TFP isn't planning on doing anything themselves is ridiculous. TFP is still fixing bugs and still developing their game and until they say they are done then all mods can be considered temporary fixes until TFP gets to it themselves. 

 
kanaverum said:
"...it exist if you play in small group (4-8) too?"

Yes, every issue Zipcore posted at the top of this page has been reported to happen even in multiplayer with as few as 2 people. [edit; grammar]

I think everyone here believes that TFP will continue to do the best they can and try to deliver a great gaming experience.
But I also think that it helps to provide feedback. This is what everyone is trying to do in their own way.

I see that you're attempting to explain that TFP are going to work at it.

I also expect that TFP will work at improving the experience.
 

Since this thread is focused on 4 key issues with the multiplayer experience and you have already explained you lack knowledge on managing an open server for 7 Days to Die or playing 7 Days to Die with others, I can only assume that you're here to learn more about the experience?

Allow me to reset expectations a little and offer some clarifying information to help provide the extra context that seems to be missing:

  1. I have personally experienced most of the issues Zipcore posted with as few as 2 players.


    And yes, that map never had more than 2 players play on it at any time, ever.
  2. From the beginning, TFP described their ideal game as "Walking Dead + Minecraft with your friends". Multiplayer has always been a central part of the experience and represents the ultimate target of the game.
  3. The only issue I haven't personally encountered yet is the floating/base-destroying tree. I am aware of other admins/servers/communities struggling with this bug, though.

[*]While TFP officially support single player and peer-to-peer 'friendly co-op' multiplayer, they do also officially support dedicated servers.

  1. In fact, they deploy a dedicated server build with every release to Steam and this is what we use to host these games.
  2. It's entirely understandable that someone who only plays single player would not be aware of this, but now you know.
Click to expand...


Sorry to butt in on this conversation. I am maybe nitpicking here, but this sounds a bit wrong:

I personally use a dedicated server and I only play with invited friends co-op. But you seem to deduct from the existence of dedicated server builds that open servers are supported. And that can't be done, even though you are surely right that open servers are officially supported. A much better sign of that support would be the included server browser in the client.

Also I don't see what the distinction between peer-to-peer and multiplayer has to do with any of the issues.

kanaverum said:
  1. TFP actually support up to 16 since A20's release.

    You can click to start a new game right now in A20 and see this for yourself: 8 players remains the default, but you can click the right arrow (since A20) and select 16 players as an officially supported option for peer-to-peer games. So if you decide to play multiplayer one day, you can invite 15 of your friends (or maybe even more, if 7DTD supports more by then).
  2. Sure, 7 Days to Die will never become Rust with 300 players per server and that's ok. We want 7 Days to Die to be 7 Days to Die.
Click to expand...


I don't have seen any information that TFP changed its stance about max number of players, though I might have missed it. I seem to remember that only recently some dev mentioned it was still 8, but don't ask me about a link and I myself don't trust my memory here.

But you try to conclude from a client setting that more than 8 players are supported. But in the dedicated server we could allow more than 8 players for ages without that meaning that it was officially supported. Maybe ask in the Dev Diary if you really want to know.

kanaverum said:
  1. No software or game will ever be perfect. TFP were very kind to support official streams of modding. So as modders and sever admins, we spend a fair amount of our free time fixing bugs to help support the intended experiences that TFP were going for and sharing those fixes/mods with others.

    They didn't ask us to do this. We just started doing it on our own because we love 7 Days to Die. 
  2. Zipcore has released dozens of multiplayer fixes and has helped a lot of admins and players out as a result.
  3. The issues Zipcore posted are the kinds of issues that cannot be modded or fixed with modding.
  4. TFP are smart people, but nobody can know all things at all times. They ask for our feedback and this post is one way that the community seeks to provide feedback. Yeah, it seems a little hostile. But I hope you can appreciate that it's coming from a good place: from a love for 7 Days to Die and the desire for it to remain as one of the best zombie survival multiplayer experiences.

Anyhow, hopefully this helps to provide a foundation for what and why we're discussing in this thread.
Click to expand...

 
Roland said:
Nobody from TFP has yet claimed that they are finished so there is no reason to think that mods are planned as permanent solutions.
Click to expand...


I hope we all agree on that.

Roland said:
Sure I read it. How does that change my response? What does that have to do with my response? Has zipcore put in an application with The Fun Pimps? I have no idea. Maybe they should. 

Regardless, the idea that anyone's current mod for Alpha 20 bugs represents a permanent fix since TFP isn't planning on doing anything themselves is ridiculous. TFP is still fixing bugs and still developing their game and until they say they are done then all mods can be considered temporary fixes until TFP gets to it themselves. 
Click to expand...


Thank you.

 
Roland said:
How does that change my response?
Click to expand...
Thats the thing your not getting. You can change your response by merely just stating "his mod is the only fix known to fix some issues" since you already stated "Regardless, the idea that anyone's current mod for Alpha 20 bugs represents a permanent fix since TFP isn't planning on doing anything themselves is ridiculous. " <--Thats the whole point! its been 7years and they still havent fixed it. What is the community supposed to do wait another 7 years? Ya thats why tfp have lost trust by so many in the community.

 
Grandpa Minion said:
Thats the thing your not getting. You can change your response by merely just stating "his mod is the only fix known to fix some issues" since you already stated "Regardless, the idea that anyone's current mod for Alpha 20 bugs represents a permanent fix since TFP isn't planning on doing anything themselves is ridiculous. " <--Thats the whole point! its been 7years and they still havent fixed it. What is the community supposed to do wait another 7 years? Ya thats why tfp have lost trust by so many in the community.
Click to expand...
Honestly idk about which bugs you talk about but... - in one alpha there was strange bug - some POI respawned on "cliffs" so after destroing a door they would just collapse. Now there is such bug because RWG was fixed. 7DTD will be finished maybe even in next year

 
Grandpa Minion said:
Don't kid yourself. A21 may be out by next year but the game being finished by next year is laughable
Click to expand...
It's possible. I don't mean it will be looking like you want to looks like. I mean will be finished  as "exit  of early access". They have just add bandit and water overhoul. Rest can be fixed after early access

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Grandpa Minion said:
Thats the thing your not getting
Click to expand...


What you don't get is that I ignore the parts of a post I have no issue with. So he's fixed bugs through the process of modding that the devs haven't fixed yet. Great. Bravo and thanks. That is exactly what modders can do and have been doing for years and not just for this game. I never disputed that fact. That's all good and like all modders who enhance the current game in ways that give people greater enjoyment, I am in awe of their willingness to do it and not just once but over and over again through multiple updates that break what they had before.

Grandpa Minion said:
You can change your response by merely just stating "his mod is the only fix known to fix some issues"
Click to expand...


But that would have made no sense as a response to the part that I quoted. That was the only part of his post I had a quibble with and only because he was applying it TFP prematurely. I agree that modders shouldn't have to be the ones to permanently fix bugs. I don't agree that we've reached that point.

Zipcore: Modding should never be the permanent fix to bugs that the developers should have fixed in code.

Me (as directed by Grandpa): Your mod is the only fix known to fix some issues.

Yeah....that just doesn't work for me since my whole point was that so far not one mod can be considered the permanent fix for any bugs. In 2023 or 2024 if TFP says, "We're done and moving on" and there are still some major bugs that are only fixed via mods and TFP has no interest in dealing with them-- then at that point will I join the lament that it is a shame that mods are the only permanent solution.

I guess go back and read the part I quoted and how I responded to it because the way you think I should have responded is janky. Even Zipcore, himself, understood what I was talking about and thanked me (I'm supposing because what I said gives him hope that the devs are planning to fix the bugs he's been fighting with mods). Since the convo was between him and I over that part maybe you can step back from defensive mode a bit. In no way was I dissing Zipcore or minimizing his contribution. 

I clearly stated that we are not to the point yet where we can call Zipcore's mods (which is the only one) fixing the bugs it they do as the "permanent solution". TFP is still on deck.

Grandpa Minion said:
-Thats the whole point! its been 7years and they still havent fixed it. What is the community supposed to do wait another 7 years? Ya thats why tfp have lost trust by so many in the community.
Click to expand...


It hasn't been 7 years. It has been almost 9 years and their priorities are their own. The community should know that they signed on to a game that is still in development and members of that community should hopefully get that their choices are A) live with the unfinished nature of the game B) mod temporary solutions that can make playing better while waiting for TFP to act or C) shelve the game until it's done.

I've met quite a few people over the years who reveal themselves to not have the patience, understanding, and temperament to enjoy playing a game that is indev. Maybe that's you. If this game ends up taking 10 years or 12 years to finish it doesn't matter. The full game hasn't been released yet and you sound to me to clearly be a "full release game" kind of person.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top