Please Buff Iron Gut

[BFT2020]

@meganoth

Another data point for you from my game play

Settings

-Survivalist

-60 min days (18 hours daylight)

-Str/Int build - 3 ranks in master chef, 1 rank in living off the land, 1 rank in self healing, 3 ranks in sex rex, 1 rank in the hunter perk for more meat and one in the perk to find small animals, no perks in iron gut

Start of study - Day 33, level 40, gamestage 73

End of study - Day 36, level 42

SP

Day 1 - Tier IV mission, looted another building after the mission and turned in

Day 2 - Same as Day 1

Day 3 - horde base upgrades, quick loot, horde night fight (64 enemies)

Primary wpn - sledgehammer, use pistol and shotgun if overwhelmed, mostly power attacks

Missions / looting - clear building first (walking and power attacks), the run through looting, salvaging, motorcycle to get between locations

2 plots of blueberries, one of pumpkin, 1 of potato, and 4 for corn

Food usage over those 3 days

1 blueberry pie

2 chili dogs

2 fish tacos

1 gumbo

I also ate 2 chicken rations, 1 chicken soup, 1 can of pears and cat food that I found during looting

I had normals, ferals, and glowies during my 3 days.  I don’t eat canned foods that I can turn into higher tier foods early in game unless I desperately need it.  I will also buy the canned goods for receipes from vending machines and traders(only if I am short on a specific canned food).

In the 6 hours at night, I have plenty of time to run both my forges, craft items, and cook food / make drinks.

If I was to do alot of mining, I would take extra food or consider iron gut but so far looting and scavenging gets me more raw materials than I can process right now.

 

[BFT2020]

Absolutely! I am the hunter and the farmer. Living off the land is maxed. 

Level 128 (Me) Level 85, 83, 77, 68 and two 55's. 

100% full, with running around and occasional punching and even more occasional healing, I need 3 hobo stew's a day cycle, and another in the night. That's just me. Fairly consistent for the three day period, tested this four times. Sometimes I need an extra stew if I've taken a beating, that dude earlier was right about the healing. 

Again, it's not about having not enough hobo stews. It's about how quickly you burn it. I can make a stack of stews, everyone has two or three on them, but then I'm back to the farm, back to hunting, back to cooking. *Constantly* needing to eat. Only gives me around ten minutes of play time per day to actually do anything. 

At your level, you should be eating the top tier foods that give you over 100 food for each serving.  If your group’s cook is putting points in master chef, those are unlock at Perk level 4 in the strength tree which I think you only need Strength 5 for.  That is where I am right now in my SP playthrough and I got gumbo, spaghetti, and 2 others I can’t think of the names of 2 more (one is tuna on toast I think).

 

[Peter Colivet]

I don't know why I'm getting vastly different results, then. 

As I said, it's not an issue finding food, it's an issue of how quickly the bars are going down. 

Further testing:

1 hour days - Insane

Brawler, heavy armour, Iron gut, living off the land, Healing factor, The temperature one, can't remember the name (Full perks) Level 142.

Steel knuckles - Steel armour 

Day 1 fully fed - Tier 5 clear quest - 1 hobo stew - Ran back home - Cleared horde - Already at 60% food - Chopped 20 trees broke 30 boulders - down to 20% another hobo stew - went hunting (4 stacks of meat)  - killed some zombies - ran home - down to 40% another hobo stew. 
Day 2 (Horde night) -  Tier 5 clear - Tier 5 fetch (couldn't finish in time) - down to 40% hobo stew - did some mining under the base for expansion for about 15 minutes, down to 55%ish - chopped trees for spikes down to 15% hobo stew - cook - tend farm - place traps - Prepped for horde, down to 60% hobo stew - Fought horde - down to 60% again. 
Day 3  - Hobo stew - Fully fed - trees - stones - mining- down to 20% hobo stew - Cleared random horde x2 - tier 5 clear - run to trader - run home - tend to farm - cook for people - down to 40% meat stew - veggie stew - horde - trees - rocks - horde - farm - down to 50% hobo stew

This continues on and on, and I'm almost *never* full. This is also just *my* data, there's around 8 of us on a good day, and everyone's always eating. (Never heard 'Food, boss?' so much in my life) Like I said in the original post, it's not an issue finding animals or farming, just with how quickly it goes down. I'm punching a good 90% of the time, mining and chopping a chunk of the rest, and running in and out of buildings. I am wearing heavy armour, occasionally getting hit and having to heal, (punches heal, though), and trying to get a quest done in time if possible.

After thinking some more about it, I'll post my equipment in detail. 

Steel knuckles
Steel armour (Full)
Running/Cycling is main transport, fuel is used for mollys + auger for our miner + other stuff.
Brawling 95% of zombies 
Only shooting when necessary, as ammo is precious for hordes.
Healing factor - 200 max hp.
Adrenaline punches heal with every hit. 
Max weather resistance.
Max Iron gut. 
1 hour days

Full to empty in about 25 minutes of play.  2/3 to fill, 1 extra if I've been whooped. /perday

 

[FlakAttack]

Running/Cycling is main transport

Stamina use is what causes food/water consumption to increase, and this right here is easily your greatest expense.

Fuel is actually easy to get if you can get yourself to a desert. Mine out a buttload of oil shale and process it all down for fuel. No problem. Use fuel to get around and you won't eat nearly as much food.

 

[meganoth]

What FlakAttack said.

In essence you are trading gas for stamina/food and by using melee mostly also trading ammo for stamina/food.  If you also don't use stealth to get in some cheap crit headshot damage in pois you are also trading time for stamina/food.

Both gas and ammo can probably be aquired as fast or faster through mining. At least I get that impression when I look at the stacks of raw materials the miner can bring back after just one night of mining

 

[Peter Colivet]

Stamina use is what causes food/water consumption to increase, and this right here is easily your greatest expense.

Fuel is actually easy to get if you can get yourself to a desert. Mine out a buttload of oil shale and process it all down for fuel. No problem. Use fuel to get around and you won't eat nearly as much food.

I've thought this, but I'm going at max about 500m, often times a lot less. I live in the centre of a city; right next to the trader. 

 

What FlakAttack said.

In essence you are trading gas for stamina/food and by using melee mostly also trading ammo for stamina/food.  If you also don't use stealth to get in some cheap crit headshot damage in pois you are also trading time for stamina/food.

Both gas and ammo can probably be aquired as fast or faster through mining. At least I get that impression when I look at the stacks of raw materials the miner can bring back after just one night of mining

I do the cheapshot sneak attacks on headshots, usually using the worst guns I have, e.g. blunderbuss. 

To be fair, food consumption has been worse. In A17 you had to be at max food all the time because you quickly fell below the limits where hunger had an effect on your stamina.
 

Food does have an affect on your max stamina, if you're starving it's nearly capped at around 60% I'd say, if I'm remembering right

 

[RipClaw]

Food does have an affect on your max stamina, if you're starving it's nearly capped at around 60% I'd say, if I'm remembering right

Yes it has an effect but not as much as in A17. In A17 maximum stamina and fullness were one and the same. If you had 60% fullness, you had 60% of your max stamina.

 

[zztong]

The only time I find food to be scarce is at the beginning. Once I can spend a game day or two hunting mountain lions in a snow biome and have a decent farm going I'm usually overflowing with Steak and Potatoes (or better) to the point where I'm hunting maybe once every 14-20 days. But that's probably just me and I like to spend points on hunting and farming.

That said, in terms of value I would agree that relative to other things to spend you skill points on Iron Gut could stand to offer more.

And maybe it is more a matter of perspective. If you invest in overcoming food scarcity then Iron Gut isn't as useful. If you're avoiding hunting and farming then maybe Iron Gut looks better.

I do know what it feels like to feed a group. I played with three friends and handled the cooking. Early on we struggled and folks knew to bring back eggs (for Bacon and Eggs). But we did work our way out of it, eventually to the point where folks quit eating canned food when they found it and we could make a bunch of the high end food. Folks could take out a couple of stacks of good food at a time. As a trade off, I didn't spend as much time making a horde base as they did.

 

[nick]

I agree so hard that I created an account to reply.

Here's my issue: I'm bored with single player and private servers, I've recently began playing on public servers and I love it and hate it at the same time.

When I play online, I want to jump into the fray (especially because when you play those beginning stages so many times it just gets so monotonous that it makes me quit the game.)

But the beginning stages aren't even that bad compared to older versions of the game - it's also other mechanics as well.

I think the real problem is that there's too many skills and not enough exp.

Personally, I've been playing using the agility skill tree - but of course you have to get into other skills if you want to establish your presence on the server.

(intellect, advanced engineering, agility, deep cuts, archery, strength, master chef, etc.)

I also never bring too much food with me while venturing out (PvPers are ruthless)

I am absolutely SICK of going out to cut a tree *you are hungry

Going to mine some stone *you are hungry

Going to loot *you are hungry

Going to my friends base across the river *you are hungry

So I break, "okay, i'll invest in iron gut"

Now i'm wasting points on what is effectively an inconvenient and annoying status message and if i'm wasting points, i'm wasting time.

But wait, we're not done yet - I might have been willing to finally max iron gut on one server, but what do I do when no one is online? I go to a different server and what am I faced with? That's right - apparently the first order of business is always going to be iron gut. It's not only annoying, it's monotonous.

 

[MonkCrimson]

I have not read all the posts so i'm going straight for my thing . Stamina consumption is making you hungry .

1) Don't run all the time even if you want to move for like 2 meters .

2) Make red tea for the efficient digestion it is super easy , instead on drinking water.

3) The Snow biome is full of bears/tigers/wolfs/chickens/rabbits , i always leave with a truck of meat from there.

4) Always check the birds nests and boil the eggs you find .

5) Farm 

6) Use vehicles to move around , 0 stamina loss.

7) Put pocket mods at your wearing's so your character does not struggle so much with a full inventory .

I personally never wear heavy armor , only light , that also helps .

Hope this a bit helpful . Cheers.

 

[Peter Colivet]

I agree so hard that I created an account to reply.

Here's my issue: I'm bored with single player and private servers, I've recently began playing on public servers and I love it and hate it at the same time.

When I play online, I want to jump into the fray (especially because when you play those beginning stages so many times it just gets so monotonous that it makes me quit the game.)

But the beginning stages aren't even that bad compared to older versions of the game - it's also other mechanics as well.

I think the real problem is that there's too many skills and not enough exp.

Personally, I've been playing using the agility skill tree - but of course you have to get into other skills if you want to establish your presence on the server.

(intellect, advanced engineering, agility, deep cuts, archery, strength, master chef, etc.)

I also never bring too much food with me while venturing out (PvPers are ruthless)

I am absolutely SICK of going out to cut a tree *you are hungry

Going to mine some stone *you are hungry

Going to loot *you are hungry

Going to my friends base across the river *you are hungry

So I break, "okay, i'll invest in iron gut"

Now i'm wasting points on what is effectively an inconvenient and annoying status message and if i'm wasting points, i'm wasting time.

But wait, we're not done yet - I might have been willing to finally max iron gut on one server, but what do I do when no one is online? I go to a different server and what am I faced with? That's right - apparently the first order of business is always going to be iron gut. It's not only annoying, it's monotonous.

Completely agree. This is 100% my point, but apparently we are in the minority on these forums. 

I don't think it should have to be a mod, even just put an option in the server settings for those who'd like to use it - but I asked this dude to make a version that lowered consumption and he did. Hope this helps you, it's finally playable imo! https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/387

 

[Axonius]

Hello! First off, absolutely in love with your game. Me and my girlfriend have several thousand hours between us. 

The request I would like to make, would be to buff Iron gut? As it stands, when I play with my girlfriend and friends, I need to be CONSTANTLY searching for animals and food. Like, literally all the time. With a group of five players, it's just impossible to keep them fed. 

I was hoping you could make iron gut reduce food and water loss to about 50% of normal (so it takes twice as long to empty), then another 25% (so 50% total) reduction from physical exertion. All from the Iron gut perk. I get those numbers may seem high, but it honestly ruins the game for us. We can't build, craft or anything as all of our time is spent going towards food. If you don't care about dying, I'm sure there's no problem, but I run a series where if I die we reset the world. We play on insane, and I haven't died yet (A couple hundred hours in), but I can't do anything but search for food.

It's not about my custom rules, though. It just isn't fun to be constantly looking for food and having everyone complain all the time. It's just way too quick.

Even when you're level 100, you need multiple hobo stews to fill, and they empty within about 20/30 minutes of playing.

I hope to hear from you, love the game,
Many thanks, 
Peter 

I'm a bit puzzled by this.  Food is certainly an issue early on. But this is pretty much resolved by day 3 maybe day 4 if you've had a bad string of looting luck.  After that, I start experiencing an exponential curve of food surplus.  This is my experience in both vanilla and the Darkness Falls mod. And DF is no joke. Canned food give you food poisoning there. 

I don't really disagree with you though. Its an odd mechanic in my opinion.  I'm not sure if it would matter if they just dropped food altogether. I'm trying to figure out if the food grind is even necessary.