PC Pimps: please leave us some basic POIs
- Thread starter Feycat
- Start date
unclevlad
New member
There is one circumstance where I miss the burned out, no forge, no zeds, crap loot houses - when I get caught out after dark and need as place to hold up for the night. Most often, this is day one, multi-player cooperative, and we are all trying to run to whoever had the best initial trader to group up. Especially with stamina issues, it happens. But I can still find houses of that type, just not as plentifully.
For the most part, I like the new POIs, but not to the exclusion of all of the old style. I don't see the balance being too far off.
For the most part, I like the new POIs, but not to the exclusion of all of the old style. I don't see the balance being too far off.
Roland
Moderator
"Practical objects" as in objects that have uses? If so, list for me the practical uses of basic A16 POI's that A17 designed houses can't fill. What is it you want to do for quick and amazing fun in the basic houses that you cannot do in the time dragging and insufferable level designed houses?
Royal Deluxe
New member
After i died at the beginning of experimental arround 10 Times by such houses i never again enterred one before i had decent equip arround day 14-28
Roland, you should be aware that you really do sound as some sort of "the defender of tha faith" for 7d2d. To be honest I think you scare of more people then you actually entertain. I've had some experience in your answers and personally do not mind. But reactions to said answers shows different opinions.
Not that I care much, but when I see these comments coming one after another and put them in perspective with your comments to my thread... Then it all makes sense and I see what you are doing.
Nothing wrong with hiding zombies if it makes sense. That means if the playing field is fair.
If we use your scenario of people that are bitten and they die while hiding in wardrobes:
* Then what is the change that people die standing on their feet? This allows Zombies to jump out faster.
* What about all the spots where zombies hide in, having magically paper thin wood.
Normally, a zombie needs time to get up and break out. Yet, every one of those zombies is hidden behind a false 1hp painted wardrobe door or whatever. What about the bear den, where you have 9 zombies, in 3 iron vats, that break out within 1 second thanks to those fake walls.
Immersion, sure, bring it!!! But that is not immersion but pure player bullying from the Pimps. Especially when its overdone.
I say this a lot of times but nobody like to hear it. Sleeper Zombie used to be designed around the idea that you do not know if a dead body lying on the ground was a body or a sleeper. Now 40% of the zombie tend to stand in corners, ideal for ambushing. 10% Are hidden in rafters, in again ideal spots to ambush the player. Another 10 a 15% are position standing up on false ceiling, where nobody can hide in the first place. Its just TOO MUCH suspension of disbelief!!!
There was nobody at the Pimp saying: "you know guys, are we really not over doing it?"
Notice that even you used the word a "few" fictional reasons. There is a limit on the craziness of zombies in the houses.
Houses that are filled to brink with zombies. That does not create any tension because you expect a zombie in every room, behind every cabinet, behind every corner. Every house you step into and you see such a nice big open floor... O yea, let me guess, drop floor. O surprise sigh. It turns the POIs simply into work with no real fun factor. Good on the first time you encounter them / play the game, then it becomes very fast repetitive and boring.
AtomicUs5000
New member
I like the large number of dungeon POIs as well. Early game, it makes sense to hit up the smallest ones... and these can only be dungeonized so far, some not really at all. If I do go into larger ones in the first few days it's only because there is something specific I am looking for. When this happens, if I know the POI, I go to where the item might be, search, and leave right away. If I don't know the POI well enough, I might sneak into it a little but usually I just move on.
Guppycur
Well-known member
I think they're a blast too. In small quantities. But that's exactly what we're arguing... no one says the dungeon crawls suck (correct me if I'm wrong), what we're saying is it's ridiculous and not fun to have them so prevalent.
I don't know what kind of poi numbers you're seeing, but the vast majority end up being some sort of crawl on my end. It just gets old, ya know? Novelty is great in small quantities, but sometimes I just want to explore the desolate world; a world that makes some semblance of sense. This new world... does not. <shrug>
I'm not even bashing the poi's, I think 1) They're fracking fantastically designed and his nephews need a raise, and 2) people loved them in A16 so it makes sense they make more.
But they went overboard. =) That's all.
- - - Updated - - -
I think most nerfs at this point are done for performance reasons. Which is sad imo. <shrug>
Roland
Moderator
This one I agree with IF you insist on crashing in the interior instead of the roof top. I would just pick the roof top if I felt the need but zombies are so much slower than players that there's no reason to not just keep heading to your planned destination. Using night for travel is sadly too easy to ignore or worry about. (This is criticism of the game from Roland)
Easily done in dungeon POI's thanks to the ridiculous number of static decorations that have nothing but desolation within them. (This is more criticism of the game from Roland). I think desolation as emptiness is reflected in loot rather than random stuff filling the house and making the maze. A16 houses are better because they are less desolate than A17 houses due to the helper blocks in A17 houses.
I do quick loot runs in dungeon houses. I just loot the easily accessible parts and don't try to clear the whole house until I'm ready. I usually look for the kitchen and call it good as the containers in the kitchen usually give me the immediately needed items. Plus I'm still finding plenty of empty non-dungeon houses and you're right, they ARE easier to loot quickly. Tip the balance too much toward them and the game is going to start feeling too easy again. At least for me, clearing the new POI's is a big part of what has made the game feel more difficult. Almost all of my deaths occur while exploring the POI's and I see that as a good thing.
Don't make me laugh.... (This is criticism of the current state of wandering hordes...by Roland)
I'm certainly not defending the POI's for their own sake. I understood the topic. I'm saying that I like the current mix. For my own taste I'm seeing plenty of simple POI's. If you play Navezgane you always start right next to one for crying out loud. Stick a map marker on it if you want to find it again to get away from...uh...wandering hordes....
I guess you and Shin will just have to believe me when I say I'm not trying to protect the feelings of any developer or any developer's nephew here. There are plenty of topics I don't argue about because I don't care. Usually I don't even argue about a game setting at all and mostly argue about the way someone is delivering their criticism or pointing out faulty logic in their argument or clearing up wild speculations about developer motives that just are not true. (They are not trying to punish people for going underground....for example).
The OP is pleading with the devs to reduce the ratio of dungeon to basic POI's in the game. I guess you are too.
I'm not. I like the current mix and wouldn't want to see more basic houses and less level designed houses. I disagree with the hyperbole being spouted that every house is a dungeon and every dungeon has zeds in the rafters and behind false panels. Sorry, but I'm not seeing it. It does happen a lot but for me it is a good mix. I'm fine with my opinion being unpopular in this thread but I'm giving it and it is solely mine.
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Pizzalicious
New member
To break in to take your stuff because they think admins dont have player tracking among other tools.
I agree that the current balance between crawls and old POI's is good right now. However, the plan is to phase out all the old POI's and change to 100% crawls isnt it? I think alot of people seem to want to get their opinion out about the matter before this happens rather than after. (well that is my thinking anyway)
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Roland
Moderator
That was not my scenario. I never said I thought they were bitten while hiding in wardrobes. My scenario is that The Duke and his crew create zombie traps for unsuspecting lone wolf types that might mess up their society. They have staged these houses in the hopes of killing me. The Wolves did the same thing in The Walking Dead. As far as false floors, they are just rotten areas. I don't have a problem with the rotten floors. Sometimes I avoid them and sometimes I am victim to them but it is always a thrilling several moments trying to escape before being overwhelmed.
No, we never have these kinds of conversations because 100% of the participants understand that this game is still in development and the developers and level designers want to see their stuff tested. None of us at TFP think that anything is in it's final state and assume that the current state will last longer than its current alpha. Like I said, I like the current ratio but that doesn't mean it will stay like it is. They may nerf it back to more rare occurrences at some point. I won't be happy about it.
Again, this is not my experience. Sorry. I often enter a room and check the corners anxiously only to find...no zombie. Definitely not zombies in EVERY room of EVERY house. Such sweeping absolute statements make me feel you aren't really going into these houses at all. There are still many that are open style....like the Fire Station I cleared in my last game. Pretty simple. I see enough open style buildings that I'm perfectly happy with the ratio. But for gold? Who can say what the final mix will be?
Roland
Moderator
I haven't heard that. I've heard they want to update all existing POI's but I haven't heard anyone say they will all be dungeons. The game has a lot of new blocks and textures now and the developers want to go through and make sure every POI in the game takes advantage of the new toys. I can think of several new updated POI's that are not dungeons. They just look better and they might have some new features (and of course the detestable helper blocks) but they aren't full on dungeons.
Perhaps someone heard "update" and equated that with "dungeon"?
Roland
Moderator
Hmmm.. I dunno. As I said, they are making new POI's and updating old ones and they aren't currently ALL popping out at the end as dungeon crawls.
Be that as it may, there ARE plenty of people on this thread complaining that the Pimps have already overdone it and they want it reduced from how it is currently-- not some future state of the game.
I disagree that the mix right now is bad. I like it how it is right now. I HAVE said that if you don't like the current mix then go make a bunch in the new POI editor that are simplistic and put them in the mix to dilute the ones you are seeing too much of. Apparently, Jax has done just that. Once it's ready you can download his mod and play with mostly the old style POI's. I'll give it a try as I like to try different mods. I do think people are probably remembering them more fondly than they actually deserve....
Be that as it may, there ARE plenty of people on this thread complaining that the Pimps have already overdone it and they want it reduced from how it is currently-- not some future state of the game.
I disagree that the mix right now is bad. I like it how it is right now. I HAVE said that if you don't like the current mix then go make a bunch in the new POI editor that are simplistic and put them in the mix to dilute the ones you are seeing too much of. Apparently, Jax has done just that. Once it's ready you can download his mod and play with mostly the old style POI's. I'll give it a try as I like to try different mods. I do think people are probably remembering them more fondly than they actually deserve....
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