Grinding Zombies is the same grind. It quickly becomes no fun to go run after every zombie because its the best and fasted way to get XP. It really breaks the feeling of the game where you are scared and surviving the apocalypse. Now people are running to Zombie like headless chicken yelling "XP, XP, come here XP!".
PC Perks System and Level Gates
- Thread starter Roland
- Start date
Ghostlight
New member
I really cant understand anyone liking the new Food/Stamina mechanic. It means all foods are the same, they give max Stamina and some HP and that's it. That's Subnautica levels of bland when it comes to a food mechanic. The days of going out of your way to get the ingredients for Meat Stew because it raised Wellness more than any other equivalent food are gone. It doesn't matter what you eat now, and Meat Stew is utterly useless (since you'd never let your max Stamina fall so low as to make it worth while actually eating it). There is zero point putting any points in MasterChef beyond the first. BY the time you can cook the boosting drugs, your character is maxed out anyway.
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RestInPieces
New member
They will balance xp sources so that zombies stop feeling like xp pinatas.
Lord_Clown1
New member
Well, it seems that the poll wants to remove level gates, which will make what you're saying true. Not being forced to pick certain skills cause you're capped.
Regardless, you'll still need to spend 9 skill points in str before gettin to the juicy stuff, spending 5 more skill points in the smashing.
But if people do that with INT to unlock higher things, well, maybe the vehicle levels need tweaking. Maybe make it cost more skillpoints to reach level 10 int.
Not sure about certain small things
But regardless, if you go full int, your game stage will still go up a lot, and you won't be able to defend yourself that well. So i really like the concept where i'm not forced to play a certain way, that i am forced to do now.
I like high risk/high reward, so maxing out str and runnin in with a sledge to instasmash some zombies in a POI sounds pretty fun, as if i miss on survival, it's likely to lead to my death, but that makes it fun imo.
Sorry, just odd ranting.
Cheers
Regardless, you'll still need to spend 9 skill points in str before gettin to the juicy stuff, spending 5 more skill points in the smashing.
But if people do that with INT to unlock higher things, well, maybe the vehicle levels need tweaking. Maybe make it cost more skillpoints to reach level 10 int.
Not sure about certain small things
But regardless, if you go full int, your game stage will still go up a lot, and you won't be able to defend yourself that well. So i really like the concept where i'm not forced to play a certain way, that i am forced to do now.
I like high risk/high reward, so maxing out str and runnin in with a sledge to instasmash some zombies in a POI sounds pretty fun, as if i miss on survival, it's likely to lead to my death, but that makes it fun imo.
Sorry, just odd ranting.
Cheers
Making the crafting recipes (intelligence) take more points that combat related perks is a terrible idea and just punishes those more intresed to crafting than combat for no reason, allow someone to choose to be weak in combat but able to craft advanved recipes is a much more intresting choice for the player to make.Well, it seems that the poll wants to remove level gates, which will make what you're saying true. Not being forced to pick certain skills cause you're capped.
Regardless, you'll still need to spend 9 skill points in str before gettin to the juicy stuff, spending 5 more skill points in the smashing.
But if people do that with INT to unlock higher things, well, maybe the vehicle levels need tweaking. Maybe make it cost more skillpoints to reach level 10 int.
Not sure about certain small things
But regardless, if you go full int, your game stage will still go up a lot, and you won't be able to defend yourself that well. So i really like the concept where i'm not forced to play a certain way, that i am forced to do now.
I like high risk/high reward, so maxing out str and runnin in with a sledge to instasmash some zombies in a POI sounds pretty fun, as if i miss on survival, it's likely to lead to my death, but that makes it fun imo.
Sorry, just odd ranting.
Cheers
There is no reason game stage needs to advance any more rapidly for people who want to craft than those who want to loot, explore or fight.
Lord_Clown1
New member
I didn't mean it that way.
The "There is no reason to make it advance faster" IT advances just the same, it's just that you choose to be weak in str and per, to focus on building
So fighting will be harder for you. That was kinda the point.
Level+ = Gamestage+ still applies equally in my utopia. ^_^.
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Just one quick idea.
When you remove the level caps, you could probably change the vehicle stuff to being stuff you find as schematics, or that you have to spend extra skillpoints in achieving it, cause it feels like more mid-end game stuff. Maybe costing 3 sp instead of one, but also being findable as a schematic in certain spots.
Just an idea, at least when it comes to vehicles, while the rest may remain the same. Wouldn't be too broken then.
<3
About having a16 and a17 system combined seems like it'd be amazing, at least with the skill mining tools without nerfing mining or anything. That way at absolute max everything and mods, a power attack with a stee lpickaxe would do around 700 damage, which i think is pretty cool. That's ofcourse 190 damage more than in a16 ish. But still, that'd be really nice, and you won't spend the 1 skillpoint you get per level on a 1-100 mining tools, so it's fair if you mine that much you do that much damage. It's perfectly balanced then, cause it'd take you several hours upon hours.
The "There is no reason to make it advance faster" IT advances just the same, it's just that you choose to be weak in str and per, to focus on building
So fighting will be harder for you. That was kinda the point.
Level+ = Gamestage+ still applies equally in my utopia. ^_^.
- - - Updated - - -
Just one quick idea.
When you remove the level caps, you could probably change the vehicle stuff to being stuff you find as schematics, or that you have to spend extra skillpoints in achieving it, cause it feels like more mid-end game stuff. Maybe costing 3 sp instead of one, but also being findable as a schematic in certain spots.
Just an idea, at least when it comes to vehicles, while the rest may remain the same. Wouldn't be too broken then.
<3
About having a16 and a17 system combined seems like it'd be amazing, at least with the skill mining tools without nerfing mining or anything. That way at absolute max everything and mods, a power attack with a stee lpickaxe would do around 700 damage, which i think is pretty cool. That's ofcourse 190 damage more than in a16 ish. But still, that'd be really nice, and you won't spend the 1 skillpoint you get per level on a 1-100 mining tools, so it's fair if you mine that much you do that much damage. It's perfectly balanced then, cause it'd take you several hours upon hours.
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My issue is that there is currently a massive divde between when a player who loves looting and one that loves crafing unlock the same item, you can find advanced tools on day 1 but to craft them takes hours upon hours of leveling up, if those advanved items unlocked at the same time for both playstyles it would be a diffrent matter (ie make things not appear in loot/trader until they are craftable)
As it stands now crafting things is heavily locked behind grinding exp (and the increased gamestage) but looting them can be done at any time
Making everything cost 1 point and granting 1 per level is much fairer than 'naw you have to level up more for this than anything else just because'
As it stands now crafting things is heavily locked behind grinding exp (and the increased gamestage) but looting them can be done at any time
Making everything cost 1 point and granting 1 per level is much fairer than 'naw you have to level up more for this than anything else just because'
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Because SP specialization is really not a viable or fun option, and it's not like you don't have to grind out 276 or so out of 300 levels to max all skills. I don't know how long that would take, but being as XP reqs scale up much more than the XP from end-game zombies I doubt anybody is getting 5 levels a day at level 200.
The current perk system has zero depth and does not enhance gameplay at all, it removes it. Games used to be about learning how to play and getting better at playing the game, that was rewarding. Now its *ding* spend a point and you magically got better. I have not once felt like I had achieved something in a17, there is no real challenge.
Why are there perks that make it so you need to eat and drink less? Its tells me that the eating and drinking part of the game is tedious so there is a perk to make it less tedious. Why not have a cooking skill with recipes that keep you full for longer, with a higher skill you make better food, quicker, with longer buffs. Expand and add depth to the systems instead of a boring perk which does it all for you and you didn't even need to perform the actions related to it to get it.
Someone said the new perk system is better for specialisation, I could not disagree more. Specialisation means you pick a specific profession and focus on that, you aren't gonna be doing that with this perk system, you're gonna spread points all over. Want to be a Miner? You need points in Strength and you're gonna want Agility for stamina. Want some better tools for mining? Gonna need Intellect as well. Not so specialised anymore.
I see a lot of people mention the old system and having to make 1000000 stone axes to level toolsmithing, was there any attempt to balance that? Why did stone axes give you gains past a certain point? Was repairing tools ever a big deal? No, it was far too easy to make a new one and more beneficial as stats dropped by repairing. It was too easy to make steel tools. Steel should take longer to make and require coal. If you had the time to sit there and just make tools for hours, you are not feeling any sense of urgency to be ready for the next bloodmoon and the game is clearly not challenging you enough.
Finding that forge book was fun, finding a forge in a house was even better! Maybe I could have learnt how to make a forge by finding and studying a working one. Same goes for the others. How about a blacksmith zombie that has a high chance to drop the book, maybe even the materials for one? How about a scientist zombie for the chem station? There is already a construction zombie, he can drop the workbench plans! People who like killing zombies can farm them for plans, people who like looting can search stores and specific areas related to what you're looking for.
As for wellness, the old system was great. Dying meant losing something you had to regain, I was scared to die when my wellness was nearing 200, felt great. Getting your wellness high gave you a sense of achievement, you had played well to do so, but also meant you had to keep playing well to keep it there. So much potential to link wellness into a cooking skill with lots of new recipes, ingredients and buffs. I like that performing actions affects your max wellness but eating shouldn't be the only way to regain it. It should passively increase when not doing anything, very slowly. Maybe a campfire could increase the rate. Can be linked with medical skill for more possibilities. How about an entertainer skill that increases it...oh wait thats Star Wars Galaxies
This game does not need perks and xp bars to be great. I remember it being fun before they were added. Now everything revolves around them and I feel it has sucked the life out of the game.
Why are there perks that make it so you need to eat and drink less? Its tells me that the eating and drinking part of the game is tedious so there is a perk to make it less tedious. Why not have a cooking skill with recipes that keep you full for longer, with a higher skill you make better food, quicker, with longer buffs. Expand and add depth to the systems instead of a boring perk which does it all for you and you didn't even need to perform the actions related to it to get it.
Someone said the new perk system is better for specialisation, I could not disagree more. Specialisation means you pick a specific profession and focus on that, you aren't gonna be doing that with this perk system, you're gonna spread points all over. Want to be a Miner? You need points in Strength and you're gonna want Agility for stamina. Want some better tools for mining? Gonna need Intellect as well. Not so specialised anymore.
I see a lot of people mention the old system and having to make 1000000 stone axes to level toolsmithing, was there any attempt to balance that? Why did stone axes give you gains past a certain point? Was repairing tools ever a big deal? No, it was far too easy to make a new one and more beneficial as stats dropped by repairing. It was too easy to make steel tools. Steel should take longer to make and require coal. If you had the time to sit there and just make tools for hours, you are not feeling any sense of urgency to be ready for the next bloodmoon and the game is clearly not challenging you enough.
Finding that forge book was fun, finding a forge in a house was even better! Maybe I could have learnt how to make a forge by finding and studying a working one. Same goes for the others. How about a blacksmith zombie that has a high chance to drop the book, maybe even the materials for one? How about a scientist zombie for the chem station? There is already a construction zombie, he can drop the workbench plans! People who like killing zombies can farm them for plans, people who like looting can search stores and specific areas related to what you're looking for.
As for wellness, the old system was great. Dying meant losing something you had to regain, I was scared to die when my wellness was nearing 200, felt great. Getting your wellness high gave you a sense of achievement, you had played well to do so, but also meant you had to keep playing well to keep it there. So much potential to link wellness into a cooking skill with lots of new recipes, ingredients and buffs. I like that performing actions affects your max wellness but eating shouldn't be the only way to regain it. It should passively increase when not doing anything, very slowly. Maybe a campfire could increase the rate. Can be linked with medical skill for more possibilities. How about an entertainer skill that increases it...oh wait thats Star Wars Galaxies
This game does not need perks and xp bars to be great. I remember it being fun before they were added. Now everything revolves around them and I feel it has sucked the life out of the game.
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Kage848
Stream Team
I think the old alpha 16 skill/perk system was really good. Makes way more sense to learn by doing. But I really love the new perk system too.
I'm going to say I think the alpha 17 perk system is better. But ill be honest, it might be just because its new. A breath of fresh air over an old tired skill system I was using for years.
I think we should 100% be able to get all perks, like we can now. That shouldn't change. Limiting perks is a simple slap in the face to the sp gamer. Let's face it, this is already the update that made mp better than sp, let's not go too far with that. #singleplayergamersmatter
I'm ok with level gates. Its eather rng or levels guys. At least with levels I dont get screwed out of stuff because of rng. I work for it, I get it.
As for rng. Nothing burns me up more than days and days of hard work searching for an item and not getting it. My time is valuable and i dont appreciate it being wasted.
But people need a reason to go out and loot. So how do we give then that?
I'm going to say I think the alpha 17 perk system is better. But ill be honest, it might be just because its new. A breath of fresh air over an old tired skill system I was using for years.
I think we should 100% be able to get all perks, like we can now. That shouldn't change. Limiting perks is a simple slap in the face to the sp gamer. Let's face it, this is already the update that made mp better than sp, let's not go too far with that. #singleplayergamersmatter
I'm ok with level gates. Its eather rng or levels guys. At least with levels I dont get screwed out of stuff because of rng. I work for it, I get it.
As for rng. Nothing burns me up more than days and days of hard work searching for an item and not getting it. My time is valuable and i dont appreciate it being wasted.
But people need a reason to go out and loot. So how do we give then that?
The reason RNG was a pain before was because there were limited options to find the things you want, why not just add more options for finding them? Once they added working forges in houses there wasn't a massive issue if you couldn't find the book. That could easily have been expanded upon making the world more interesting at the same time, how about a blacksmith shop POI?, a laboratory POI? Give the player a challenge. Its never going to be a challenge to unlock a perk.
Viktoriusiii
New member
Why not A16 with perks? I mean we already had that system... only that it wasn't fleshed out at all!
Kage848
Stream Team
Not a terrible idea. 2 issues.
That was alpha 16. I played alpha 16, for 16 months. I want totally new stuff.
Also the hardcore will still complain. If it doesn't take them a hundred hours to get something then it's too easy.
And lastly one thing i cant say about alpha 17 is it needs more challenge. Its plenty challaging. Dont bother telling me it's not, this is my subjective opinion lol.
Kage848
Stream Team
Maybe. But like I said before I am really liking the totally new system. Maybe it will get old but for now I'm addicted to it. Might have something to do with my MMO background. Ill grind all day for those sweet perks. Just asking some new perks to the already old system doesn't sound as fun.
I enjoyed the systems of A16. I liked learning by doing. I also like the wellness system. It felt like you accomplished something and could be done without bashing zombies over and over just to get your next point.
As for the new systems, I played a few games default and now I am playing one with no level caps. Its a lot more enjoyable now. Yes, I can get the forge quickly but there is a cost to doing that. I won't have the points to improve stamina or the other mining skills. It also adds to the specialization aspect of it, one person can be a fighter and someone else can be a scientist.
As for the new systems, I played a few games default and now I am playing one with no level caps. Its a lot more enjoyable now. Yes, I can get the forge quickly but there is a cost to doing that. I won't have the points to improve stamina or the other mining skills. It also adds to the specialization aspect of it, one person can be a fighter and someone else can be a scientist.