PC Pay to Improve instead of Earning it

Yer I miss lbd too but devs were clear it's not coming back. End of the day u gotta respect it's their game, might not like it but at least it's open for modding.
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Hey,

Totally agree, doesn't mean I won't look back with sad face and grabby hands lol. And, like I mentioned, mods :) .

 
Really, there's no way to balance it. Make it too easy and people become gods in half an hour. Make it middle ground, it takes hours to get decent at one thing when there are 30 + things to get good at. Make it too hard... well, you get everyone entering "giveselfskillxp 9999" because they have to spend half a dozen hours getting good at mining, then suck at everything else so they have to spend half a dozen hours upgrading blocks... then shooting a rifle... then shooting a bow... then standing on a catcus because you'd have to otherwise find a zombie to hit you for half a dozen hours chugging first aid kits standing naked in the snow eating 100,000 bowls of stew to gain HP.
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Whereas implement it in a sensible way with diminishing returns so that you can improve rapidly at first but then it becomes harder to get much better at something you are already good at, and it can feel fantastic, organic, very immersive and rewarding.

Still think it was the biggest mistake they made so far myself.
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Agreed.

This makes very little actual sense since the system we have now is extremely common in many games. It makes perfect sense. It's just not what you want is all.
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So I can dig a mine all day, level up and then become better at cooking. How exactly does this make sense?

 
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But with the current system you can play it the way you feel makes sense. Don't put points into sledgehammer until you've used the sledgehammer. If it is jarring to kill with a knife exclusively and then put points into sledgehammer don't do it. Put the points into blades.
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So for it to make sense or satisfy us we have to impose artificial limitations on the way we play. That's not a great place to be imo. Also your suggestion doesn't work since there is no way for me to level up by cooking and only then put a point in Masterchef.

The problem is that we had LBD for ages, and many of us loved it. We got spoiled basically. Had the bland, casual-friendly system we have now been in play from the start we'd not be complaining. To quote the words of the song by James:

"If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor"

 
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I agree that most probably liked LBD but that doesn't mean that they all hate this new system. I liked LBD just fine and I also like the perk purchasing system. From what I can tell most people also like the new system and even if not as much-- they like it well enough.
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Oh I don't hate it as such. But I find it bland, silly, generic, boring , unimmersive and unsatisfying.

Also I just built my first Gyrocopter, took off for the first time, then promptly pressed 'E' when trying to remember how to point the nose down. And the fall killed me, so I'm in a BAD MOOD. Grrr

 
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In another post i made i proposed an idea of making a separate tab for action skills next to the attributes and the skillbooks. These skills would cover the weapon-types and some other skills. They would give minor bonuses and not be linked to any perks, so you dont need to grind any specific task just to spend perk points associated to them.

This way, you would be able to spec points freely just like we do now, but it would still feel a little more rewarding when focusing on a specific task.

I really miss that dopamine rush you got when you saw the "your skill in xxx has increased to x". xD

 
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I just would like to know how the LBD wasn't cheesey? I don't care about how it could of been, would of been, should of been or anything like that all I want to know it actually was in game it wasn't cheesey.

Oh look I can spam craft 10000 stone axes to make better steel axes. Oh look I made 10000 axes now I got some xp that gives me points now I can have more stamina. I can literally go on and on, both systems has its ups and downs but please don't pretend like LBD was peachy king. I for one hated for how it was. Sure it might of been a great thing if worked on more but can't miss what wasn't there.

I hope a few more changes/adjustments get done to the system we have now and be good to go.

Edit: and yes I know A16 removed the spam crafting and some stuff to a degree but my points stand that the LBD was still just as cheesey.

 
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They removed the ability to spam-craft around A16.4. So you couldn't cheeze it any more. Only the first few Stone Axes would do anything meaningful.

Oh look I made 10000 axes now I got some xp that gives me points now I can have more stamina.
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You couldn't do that. More Stamina was achieved only by levelling up, and nothing to do with where you spent your points.

The LBD system *was* peachy in its final incarnation. The only fault as I saw it was the Armour skills since you had to take damage to improve them. This annoyed people but could have been easily fixed. Also, if you were not taking enough damage to level the Armour skills....then you didn't really need to level the Armour skills, did you?

Edit: and yes I know A16 removed the spam crafting and some stuff to a degree but my points stand that the LBD was still just as cheesey.
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So you acknowledge that they removed the thing that made it cheezy but still say it was cheezy? I think the onus is on you to explain why it was cheezy and not on me to explain why it wasn't.

 
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I just would like to know how the LBD wasn't cheesey? I don't care about how it could of been, would of been, should of been or anything like that all I want to know it actually was in game it wasn't cheesey.
Oh look I can spam craft 10000 stone axes to make better steel axes. Oh look I made 10000 axes now I got some xp that gives me points now I can have more stamina. I can literally go on and on, both systems has its ups and downs but please don't pretend like LBD was peachy king. I for one hated for how it was. Sure it might of been a great thing if worked on more but can't miss what wasn't there.

I hope a few more changes/adjustments get done to the system we have now and be good to go.

Edit: and yes I know A16 removed the spam crafting and some stuff to a degree but my points stand that the LBD was still just as cheesey.
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I don't see the point in complaining about the worst flaws in a fundamentally good system. NOBODY claimed LBD was implemented perfectly. If TFP had left it as it existed in A15 until Gold, there would've been plenty of complaints about it. The point is, LBD needed to be polished and balanced...not an easy job, but possible. Instead, they scrapped it completely.

 
They removed the ability to spam-craft around A16.4. So you couldn't cheeze it any more. Only the first few Stone Axes would do anything meaningful.


You couldn't do that. More Stamina was achieved only by levelling up, and nothing to do with where you spent your points.

The LBD system *was* peachy in its final incarnation. The only fault as I saw it was the Armour skills since you had to take damage to improve them. This annoyed people but could have been easily fixed. Also, if you were not taking enough damage to level the Armour skills....then you didn't really need to level the Armour skills, did you?

So you acknowledge that they removed the thing that made it cheezy but still say it was cheezy? I think the onus is on you to explain why it was cheezy and not on me to explain why it wasn't.
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I said the list can go on and on. But sorry not up to me because the system is gone and not coming back. So sorry don't have much else to say on the subject besides to me it had many flaws and I didn't like it just like you think this has flaws and you don't like it. Either way two different opinions and either way it isn't goin to change what was or what is.

 
Yes you are right, but I will always reminisce fondly.

That LBD system we had, it wasn't just that I liked it, nope much much more. I thought - as a player of video games for 40 years now - it was one of the best such systems I have ever encountered in any video game. A work of real genius. I'm not mad, I'm mourning.

 
Yer current system isn't all bad. Come home end of a long day it's lovely to see her, have a nice meal and chat about our day, I'm happy she's in my life.

But then the one that got away pops up in yr head from time to time. Red head, skin so smooth you had to wear anti-slip soles, u think to yourself how the hell did she slip away.

 
"If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor"
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So very true. If I hadn't experience the amazing feat of genius that is A16.4's hybrid LBD/perk system, I'd be much more satisfied with the merely ok, but needs works current system.

 
So for it to make sense or satisfy us we have to impose artificial limitations on the way we play. That's not a great place to be imo. Also your suggestion doesn't work since there is no way for me to level up by cooking and only then put a point in Masterchef.
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It’s called freedom to play as you will. And you impose artificial limitations in other areas of the game as well. You’ve posted about it and seem to take great pride and like to tell others that you can simply choose not to do it. Same here.

I never said that you need to actually level up from doing the action. I said you can do the action before spending the points. You have some points to spend that came from gaining xp in various activities. Cook 20 charred meat and then spend the point on Master Chef. Your skill in cooking improved after you cooked. The only difference is that you consciously did it instead of the game passively doing it in the background.

We got spoiled basically.
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That explains much of the behavior exhibited.

 
Learning by doing worked great for action skills. It was an unbelievably HORRIBLE train wreck for any utility or non action skill to the point that you HAD to massively abuse the system and sit there and endless grind.

Want to level armor crafting? Well see you in 2-3 days as you sit there and craft and scrap more armor then you would use in 100 years of playing 7 days to die

Want to level medicine skill? Go sit on a cactus for a few days while spamming bandages

Want to level armor? Same as medicine

Etc.

Then if people grinded out a skill they could make purple versions of that item by day 1 being completely unbalanced.

 
It’s called freedom to play as you will. And you impose artificial limitations in other areas of the game as well. You’ve posted about it and seem to take great pride and like to tell others that you can simply choose not to do it. Same here
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Only in areas that I (and many others) consider exploits.

I never said that you need to actually level up from doing the action. I said you can do the action before spending the points. You have some points to spend that came from gaining xp in various activities. Cook 20 charred meat and then spend the point on Master Chef. Your skill in cooking improved after you cooked. The only difference is that you consciously did it instead of the game passively doing it in the background.
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So now I am lying to myself? The fact would remain that if I had a point to spend, it was not earned from cooking meat, but from some non-cooking activity.

 
Only in areas that I (and many others) consider exploits.


So now I am lying to myself? The fact would remain that if I had a point to spend, it was not earned from cooking meat, but from some non-cooking activity.
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Lying to yourself? We’re talking entertainment here and not something like alcoholism or mental health.... I guess it is a form of lying to yourself. But then By your definition actors on the stage are lying. Kids playing pretend are lying. People bluffing in poker are lying. Renaissance Fair goers are huge liars....

It’s fine. I can see you aren’t a role player or at least don’t care to employ such a use of your imagination to this game. I like doing it and am just recommending a different way of playing the game that a bit of “lying to yourself” AKA “role playing” can bring. If you are against it maybe some lurker is not and will give it a try and find the same fun I do.

 
I propose we start calling the current system "learning by wanting" because whatever skill you want or that happen to be tactically useful at the moment are the ones that get improved.

 
Also people forget the flip side. Once you say max out your sledgehammer skill is it really fair to punish the player by not giving him any progress by using his sledge? Sure it might be more realistic, but realistic isn't always fun.

 
I propose we start calling the current system "learning by wanting" because whatever skill you want or that happen to be tactically useful at the moment are the ones that get improved.
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That would imply you can level and gain whatever skill you wanted.

You double the experience you need every ~14 levels.

With current experience gain leveling in a normal pace caps at around level 80.

 
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