Options for storms.

[WarMongerian]

Other than just turning them off, what options might make playing with the storms on a thing?

I'll list some of my thoughts here, and then ask for other folks thoughts.

1) Make the Biome smoothies useful in the storms, somehow, not just useless after you have the badge.
2) Make the storms provide a rewarding playtime, perhaps a temp 'loot bonus' while the storm is active?
3) Make it possible, for players that brave the storms, to earn a 1% immunity for surviving a whole storm?
4) Make a quest, like the restore power quests, that can only be done during a storm?

What else might make the storms interesting enough to not just run off?

 

[Kyoji]

Remove Dot effects which make storms not worth the effort to venture into.

Have reduced visibility, 2x zombie world spawns (not POI), and make them all feral.

You can add in temperature effects once it returns.

You could also make the behemoth spawn during storms where you take a chance encountering it giving both good loot rewards at a high risk of death.

 

[Samcharles]

It would also be nice if storms didn't happen every day. Maybe they could have a chance to happen each day and if it doesn't happen then the chance could increase for the next day.

 

[zztong]

It would also be nice if storms didn't happen every day. Maybe they could have a chance to happen each day and if it doesn't happen then the chance could increase for the next day.

I agree. I think for storms to be meaningful they have to be unpredictable. If they're really common then I'll be prepared all the time.

What I'm not sure about is if they should happen during a blood moon. I could see that being fun... or not... since I like to take on hordes in the open. It would really make my butt cheeks pucker to have to run inside where I couldn't be mobile.

 

[Rotor]

Un predictable
Temp
Clothing to diminish effects
Fire,water or stew food to finish effects.

Remove smoothy
Remove badges
Remove progression lock

 

[WarMongerian]

Remove Dot effects which make storms not worth the effort to venture into.

Remove all DoT effects of all the storms, all at once, or gradually reduce/remove over time/improved protective gear?

Have reduced visibility, 2x zombie Biome spawns (not POI), and make them all feral.

I have bad eyesight, so I cannot want more problems for my characters vision, for me to have to suffer through. eyestrain is a thing for me. I could see the amended increased spawns, for the Biome that is having a storm in it, but not the whole game, just because one biome or another is having a storm. Making them all Feral should be configurable, so those that wanted this, could have it, and other that don't, could opt out.

You can add in temperature effects once it returns.

+1

You could also make the behemoth spawn during storms where you take a chance encountering it giving both good loot rewards at a high risk of death.

Something like..."...Diablo walks the earth..."?

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 11:00 PM

It would also be nice if storms didn't happen every day. Maybe they could have a chance to happen each day and if it doesn't happen then the chance could increase for the next day.

Would a 10%/30%/60%/100% chance system work for you, so that, if you got lucky, the most you could get would be three days of no storm, but then, on the 4th day, you get a storm all the time. Of course, the chance would reset to 10% for the next day after any given storm.

 

[WarMongerian]

What I'm not sure about is if they should happen during a blood moon.

I always fight Horde Night on the ground, with melee weapons, out in the open, until the 4 legged friends arrive, then I retreat up my ladder towers, and switch to my bow/crossbow. I have not tried to play through a storm, let alone on Horde Night, so this isn't something I would care to try, but it would be nice to have as an option, for when I have more experience, so I could try it then.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 11:06 PM

Un predictable
Temp
Clothing to diminish effects
Fire,water or stew food to finish effects.

Remove smoothy
Remove badges
Remove progression lock

Could I get your thoughts on increased loot drops for storms, or progressive resistances >>> eventual immunity to storm ill effects?

 

[Riamus]

I wouldn't want a quest type that is tied to storms. Already, I rarely touch night quests because I'm normally questing during the day, and even if I do a night quest, I can only do one because I can't turn it in until the next day. Having one for storms that you can't predict and have to hold onto until you finally find a storm? No, thanks. Especially when you can already get stuck with something like night quests taking up all quest choices, leaving you with no quest options at that trader at 4am that can be done. You're stuck going to another trader or else restarting the game for new quests. Having storm quests as well that might do that and prevent you from getting quests you can do immediately without waiting just isn't a good option, imo.

 

[Rotor]

I play loot no respawn, so not sure how to answer that question, as I fail to make the connection in my head. that a storm should some how give me something better than if I am prancing around a sunny day.

As far as immunity that should be with optimal gear.

 

[WarMongerian]

Having storm quests that might prevent you from getting quests you can do immediately without waiting just isn't a good option, imo.

Fair enough.
What about moving "nighttime only" and "during storms" parameters into a que, where normal quests can proceed as normal, but the conditional quests can pop up when the conditions are met, else they remain in the background?

 

[Riamus]

Fair enough.
What about moving "nighttime only" and "during storms" parameters into a que, where normal quests can proceed as normal, but the conditional quests can pop up when the conditions are met, else they remain in the background?

If they did something like that, I'd definitely prefer it over how it works now for night quests. As it is, it's rare for me to ever do the night quest. I'd basically have to be turning in a quest right before closing time and grabbing a new one in order for me to bother with one. Otherwise, I'll just grab a day quest, even if it's close to night since I can start it immediately without waiting. So right now, night quests are kind of pointless. If you could take one and hang onto it while still doing day quests, that would be good. I would be far more likely to do those quests. And if they added storm quests the same way, that would be fine. The main thing even when doing it that way is that you still only can take from a list of 5 quests, so they can still clog up the quest choices unless there is a separate section for them besides just letting them be held until you can do them. And then the question is... what kind of quest would be tied to storms? You can't currently spend much time in a storm. Even if that changes, what are you going to do for a quest? If it's just doing a POI during a storm, how is that really any different from a regular or night quest. The night quests aren't even any different other than having to click on generators. Of course, you can skip killing everything, but it's still not really all that special. What can storms add to quests? I'm not sure what could be done to make them unique enough to add. Any ideas?

 

[WarMongerian]

And then the question is... what kind of quest would be tied to storms? You can't currently spend much time in a storm. Even if that changes, what are you going to do for a quest? If it's just doing a POI during a storm, how is that really any different from a regular or night quest. The night quests aren't even any different other than having to click on generators. Of course, you can skip killing everything, but it's still not really all that special.

I agree, the 'storm quests would need 'something' to be special about them. Right now, you are absolutely correct, the night quests don't have anything special.

What can storms add to quests? I'm not sure what could be done to make them unique enough to add. Any ideas?

My own thoughts, as far as they go, and without trying to add in all the fun things that only the developers can do, would be simple things like:

1) Loot bonuses during the storm/quest.
2) Special 'guest zombies' that are 100% to appear at whatever PoI, during the storm/quest, in addition to whatever is there normally. The higher the tier, the more 'guests'.
3) Themed storm quests, that, like the guest zombies, are specific types of guests zombies.
4) Whatever TFP can and will do.

 

[SkoomaCatJesus]

I always fight Horde Night on the ground, with melee weapons, out in the open, until the 4 legged friends arrive, then I retreat up my ladder towers, and switch to my bow/crossbow. I have not tried to play through a storm, let alone on Horde Night, so this isn't something I would care to try, but it would be nice to have as an option, for when I have more experience, so I could try it then.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 11:06 PM

Could I get your thoughts on increased loot drops for storms, or progressive resistances >>> eventual immunity to storm ill effects?

I resonate strongly with the idea that the only path to storm immunity should be an outfit/weapon trade. The more you are protected from the storm, the more you should have to give up. Like if you are in the desert biome, guns should jamb. If you are in the burnt forest, you should lose stamina from smoke inhalation. If you are in the wasteland, there should be higher disease and sickness odds. Take the wasteland for instance: wearing the radiation suite would protect you fully, but you would have to give up all the advantages of the other matching sets and possibly take a penalty to movement speed. Sandbox != immersion. It is very possible to have required attachments and alternative repair items for specific sets; like oxygen or filters for a radiation suite. I think the whole argument is a Whorf-Sapir paradox between immersion and sandbox, where immersion is the power play here (prevents interference and game breakage due to bandits). Storms should always interfere with vehicles (that was a really good idea), and should probably interfere with weapon accuracy too. I like having to run into a POI as fast as possible, but I want it to reward how well I know the game by making me think twice about which of the 2 or 3 available POIs I run into (more than it already does). Basic changes would add an "emergent" tier of survival game and be the perfect play that rewards long-time players (steam accounts with +1,000 hours) without punishing current projects or introducing bugs and fringe edge-cases. It may be possible to blunt the negativity by adding a storm specific challenge category (possible easy out without any addictions or hard changes), but it has to "feel good;" like killing x-number of screamers during a storm (a way of saying I am mad as h**l and want to make a lot of noise), etc. The storms are good, but they have to be a certain kind of mirror, and that requires a foil activity or play style. I think that the reason why the radiation suit resonates so well amongst the player base is due to the implied tier/stack that comes with it. Think about it, if you had the radiation suit, you would be protected from smoke inhalation, sand storms in the desert, and they are naturally very hot to wear (perfect for the snow biome). I can see why they latch onto that specific outfit when projecting negativity. It is not a rebellion against your RPG mechanics (despite attempts to make it look that way), it is a cry for even more of them, but at a meta-game level. For me, it has that classic "mini-game taste, but without all the calories." I may be wrong here, but a "third-man" approach may be more valid; like specific sets attract more of a specific zombie. Wear the suit for max protec, but be prepared for zombies in "max speed/infernal" varieties (if the suit reduced movement speed, it would logically favor tank/melee play, emerge build remorse, and create pressure against all-builds-equals-godmode mentality). It is also fully possible to "adjudicate" all negativity by incorporating Illuminati INWO CCG dichotomy (like straight/weird, government/corporation, there are ten) to the POIs to make the order they are engaged in relevant to game behaviors if the final loot pile is raided, but that risks introducing sandbox-related complications that would only further delay bandits.

 

[WarMongerian]

I resonate strongly with the idea that the only path to storm immunity should be an outfit/weapon trade. The more you are protected from the storm, the more you should have to give up.

I personally did my time in the 101st, and we had bulky, and space taking up protective gear. IIRC, that gear was called the MOPP gear, and there were different levels we were trained to try to operate in while wearing it. MOPP 1 was just the gas mask, while MOPP 4 was the complete suit, Mask, Gloves, Boots, and Upper and Lower garments. It's been what, 35 years since I left military service? I remember having to qualify (with an M60) while wearing the protective mask, and that was a bit more difficult then when not having it on.

In game though, I would want all this gear to be like clothing used to be, like a protective outer layer, that I could just put on and not have to trade off my armor for. MOPP gear was thicker/heavier than the normal duty uniform, back in the 1980's, but not enough so that in game terms we would have any restriction on movement/stamina usage., and was designed to be worn over your other gear/uniform.

I personally like the smoothies, but I see them as a way of medically, and temporarily, making my character immune to the Biome hazards, for a short time.

I would like to see several different layers/levels of protective gear being craftable, based upon time spent within a given Biome, such that, as you gain insights into what you need to add to your protective clothing, you can make it more durable/long lasting, until you can craft gear that is permanent, in it's protection vs the Biome's hazards. Once we have that, only then can we start trying to craft protective gear, not for the Biome hazards, but the Biome storms.

In terms of what this gear should be/space taken up, ideally, the temporary sets would be something like a three stack of outer layer/protective gear, and all three sets taking up just one inventory slot, until you can craft the Biome specific set that is a permanent outer protective garment/set/gear.

Keep in mind, the protective mask was designed to be worn under the helmet, and the rest of the MOPP suit went over your uniform, but under you LBE.

So, in game, no trade off between armor and protective gear.

 

[SkoomaCatJesus]

I personally did my time in the 101st, and we had bulky, and space taking up protective gear. IIRC, that gear was called the MOPP gear, and there were different levels we were trained to try to operate in while wearing it. MOPP 1 was just the gas mask, while MOPP 4 was the complete suit, Mask, Gloves, Boots, and Upper and Lower garments. It's been what, 35 years since I left military service? I remember having to qualify (with an M60) while wearing the protective mask, and that was a bit more difficult then when not having it on.

In game though, I would want all this gear to be like clothing used to be, like a protective outer layer, that I could just put on and not have to trade off my armor for. MOPP gear was thicker/heavier than the normal duty uniform, back in the 1980's, but not enough so that in game terms we would have any restriction on movement/stamina usage., and was designed to be worn over your other gear/uniform.

I personally like the smoothies, but I see them as a way of medically, and temporarily, making my character immune to the Biome hazards, for a short time.

I would like to see several different layers/levels of protective gear being craftable, based upon time spent within a given Biome, such that, as you gain insights into what you need to add to your protective clothing, you can make it more durable/long lasting, until you can craft gear that is permanent, in it's protection vs the Biome's hazards. Once we have that, only then can we start trying to craft protective gear, not for the Biome hazards, but the Biome storms.

In terms of what this gear should be/space taken up, ideally, the temporary sets would be something like a three stack of outer layer/protective gear, and all three sets taking up just one inventory slot, until you can craft the Biome specific set that is a permanent outer protective garment/set/gear.

Keep in mind, the protective mask was designed to be worn under the helmet, and the rest of the MOPP suit went over your uniform, but under you LBE.

So, in game, no trade off between armor and protective gear.

In that case, it would probably work best if the smoothies (challenges in disguise) were connected to storm exclusive challenges through a meta-game that utilized the badge-slot idea in a more broad or generalized way. Because of how the smoothies work (connected to very specific and constrained set of actions), asking for variation is an alternative way of introducing more challenges versus scope, depth, and difficulty of those challenges. Take the sham and supercorn recipe for example. Items can be bound to a particular POI or container. If the preference is to keep the paradigm as is, then a meta-game that represents the challenges, as aliased by the smoothie, but deep enough to provide adequate coverage for storm-related immersion and storm-specific gameplay (for those stormy minutes spent in less desirable POIs)... is obviously needed. It just happens to be a tough place, where challenges will need to have their trader rewards rebalanced to factor in the possibility that badge slots will be used to redeem challenges as interchangeable effects in the greater game. I like that idea a lot because it gives an opportunity to make weapons far more varied in use without introducing a bajillion tiers of guns and mods. What you are effectively asking for is represented in COD as Perk-a-Cola, etc. It just happens to be that those are delivered as one-time consumables (but not a holdable item) rather than wearable badges and smoothies. I do like the idea of smoothies as a tongue-in-cheek drink machine overhaul that kicks up the Planet Terror aspects of the game to a whole new level. That is a tough one. You would have to find a way to make challenges that make being in potentially less desirable POIs fun as-is to get the smoothie variations that would reward and be desirable.

 

[Elwynne]

I feel the storms would be better if they did distinct things in each area and were more random in when they occurred.

examples would be:
1. Forest - lovely rain and wind effects and a very small damage over time effect.
2. Burnt Forest - very small damage over time and a reduction to line of sight to 15m.
3. Desert - very small damage over time, a reduction in line of sight to 15m, gradual armour degradation.
4. Snow - small (higher) damage over time a reduction in line of sight to 7m, increased food usage.
5 Wasteland - medium damage over time, a reduction in line of sight to 15m, all zombies in storm become radiated for its duration.

Something like that.

 

[WarMongerian]

I feel the storms would be better if they did distinct things in each area and were more random in when they occurred.

examples would be:
1. Forest - lovely rain and wind effects and a very small damage over time effect.
2. Burnt Forest - very small damage over time and a reduction to line of sight to 15m.
3. Desert - very small damage over time, a reduction in line of sight to 15m, gradual armour degradation.
4. Snow - small (higher) damage over time a reduction in line of sight to 7m, increased food usage.
5 Wasteland - medium damage over time, a reduction in line of sight to 15m, all zombies in storm become radiated for its duration.

Something like that.

I have to question/object to the colored text. I can see firearms and vehicles suffering degradation, but not armor or other weapons.

My eyesight is failing me, and to be able to keep enjoying this great game, I need to have my computer screen NOT getting blurry or out of focus, so I would hope that TFP can start to accommodate folks whose eyes are already seeing things badly, and not compounding these problems. If vision limiting takes place, then, for the love of god, allow that to only be a separate (and opt outable) option.

 

[Elwynne]

I have to question/object to the colored text. I can see firearms and vehicles suffering degradation, but not armor or other weapons.

My eyesight is failing me, and to be able to keep enjoying this great game, I need to have my computer screen NOT getting blurry or out of focus, so I would hope that TFP can start to accommodate folks whose eyes are already seeing things badly, and not compounding these problems. If vision limiting takes place, then, for the love of god, allow that to only be a separate (and opt outable) option.

Was a general idea. Think sandstorm effects should include some form of degradation. Firearms would make sense as would vehicles, except the bike. Armour I proposed simply as it is going to be exposed. but sure.

As for folks individual needs for the game I respect that. I do feel line of sight limit is less of an issue for those with sight issues than a blurred screen which i think is not as useful as a flat LOS limit.

 

[WarMongerian]

Was a general idea. Think sandstorm effects should include some form of degradation. Firearms would make sense as would vehicles, except the bike. Armour I proposed simply as it is going to be exposed. but sure.

As for folks individual needs for the game I respect that. I do feel line of sight limit is less of an issue for those with sight issues than a blurred screen which i think is not as useful as a flat LOS limit.

Sorry if I came across as being cross or mean, I didn't mean to, and hope you won't take offense. I liked what you said, except for the armor and LOS. Thanks for the thoughts on how to make the Biome storm better.

 

[Kyoji]

Remove all DoT effects of all the storms, all at once, or gradually reduce/remove over time/improved protective gear?

Storms would be better, IMO, if it was a pro/con thing. Currently the cons vastly outweigh any tangible benefit one might receive exploring in it. This is why I said to just remove the flat Dot as unless you are in the late game it's not worth wasting the medkits to venture out. There are plenty of ways to lower/mitigate the negative effects of storms and encourage players to interact with storms so I won't go into each one.

I have bad eyesight, so I cannot want more problems for my characters vision, for me to have to suffer through. eyestrain is a thing for me. I could see the amended increased spawns, for the Biome that is having a storm in it, but not the whole game, just because one biome or another is having a storm. Making them all Feral should be configurable, so those that wanted this, could have it, and other that don't, could opt out.

The storms already effect visibility. They almost have to in order for it to look like a proper storm as it will have added effects in your FoV.

Perhaps I didn't clarify well enough. I'm suggesting that while you are in an active storm the world spawn for zombies increases.

Something like..."...Diablo walks the earth..."?

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 11:00 PM

The behemoth you see people refer to was basically the equivalent of a miniboss like enemy.

Behemoth

This Zombie was never released into the game and has been dropped from the production schedule. The Behemoth was a Special Infected that was to make its appearance in A18. It was previously intended to be included in A16 and A17, but got delayed due to the developer deciding to spend more time...

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