Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
Last edited by a moderator:
PC Open Letter to TFP's...
- Thread starter Demandred1957
- Start date
Oh right. This means Dracula could just ask Demandred1957.That was Demandred...not Dracula....They do have similar forum avatars though....
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm lazy and have the same username on multiple forums; avatars are tedious.That was Demandred...not Dracula....They do have similar forum avatars though....
Regardless; I will see what changes bring and adapt accordingly as the stable version is released. In the mean time, I'm hesitant to modify the XML until its stable.
I can when I get a chance but it's just a big solid cube, an iron bar ring with holes for dropping stuff down, and now a spiked roof. Make the inside corners ramps or wedges to allow upgrading the hidden corner block. Then fill with steel when you get time. I normally only lose one or two blocks unless I do a x64 hoard. Then I spend a day, maybe two when early game, mining and make as many molys and grenades as I can each week. Otherwise, you'll have to make a ton of ammo. Although, you can just stand there all night too if you run out of ammo. The hoard would have to takeout 50-100 steel blocks when the ground level is filled. That is never going to happen on a normalish single player hoard night. Then just make it bigger or add multiple towers if extra people are there or playing with nonstock hoards.
firstedition
New member
I posted something similar to what the OP said back when a18 came out (or was it a17)?
The Fun Pimps just want you to fight the horde. They don't want it to be a choice. Which is really weird because their game seems to be all about handling the situation in the way YOU want. Except the horde.
It's a huge failing on the part of this development team. Instead of letting players deal with the problem in the manner they decide (be it having some kind of fortress, digging a bunker, making a kill-tower, outrunning the horde or whatever), they continue to try to railroad the player to this one activity. Instead of, you know, finishing the game, they just keep fighting with the players over this. It's crazy. So now we have zombie vulture missiles instead of a finished game. Hurray.
But what I think is worse than that is the reaction from these boards. You see people like this come along all the time, making an account to give some feedback (to a game still in alpha) saying "Why can't I just get in a jeep and outrun the horde?" and the community here dogpiles them and says "git gud or gtfo". Either you like the changes the Fun Pimps make, or you're told in so many words to trot-off and play minecraft. Either you like to play the game their way, or you shouldn't be playing the game.
I mean, there are plenty of legitimate questions.
"Why do vultures stop vehicles?"
"Why do zombie vultures move so fast?"
"Why do zombies tunnel through solid rock?"
"Why does zombie damage multiply when more of them attack one object?"
"Why do the zombies automatically know where you are?"
"Why do the zombies know the layout of your base to path to you?"
"Why do all the PoIs play out the same?"
"Why aren't the traders and settlements smashed during Day 7s like mine is?"
"Why is my loot tied to my level?"
"Why does a hardware store only have stone tools?"
The answer to each of those is that the Fun Pimps have systematically nerfed every route through the game so that your optimal strategy is to play the game in the manner they intend. All those other 'options' that the player might try? They're WRONG.
People come in and see this amazing game with all this freedom that the player can have. An exciting experience where they can decide and execute the strategy on how to deal with the zombie apocalypse... except then they discover that after a patch or two they've been playing it WRONG. The Fun Pimps do not agree with their playstyle. So zombie cobras that move through walls are introduced to nerf that playstyle. And the game is still unfinished. It's been what, like 7 years?
Oh, and then anyone who comments about it on the boards here is told that they're wrong too. Either grind up and get your guns in the PoIs and build your concrete cube or trap-tower and play the game how we play it or GTFO.
So, my condolences to you, OP. Welcome to 7 Days to Die. This is now your intended experience. "Enjoy."
The Fun Pimps just want you to fight the horde. They don't want it to be a choice. Which is really weird because their game seems to be all about handling the situation in the way YOU want. Except the horde.
It's a huge failing on the part of this development team. Instead of letting players deal with the problem in the manner they decide (be it having some kind of fortress, digging a bunker, making a kill-tower, outrunning the horde or whatever), they continue to try to railroad the player to this one activity. Instead of, you know, finishing the game, they just keep fighting with the players over this. It's crazy. So now we have zombie vulture missiles instead of a finished game. Hurray.
But what I think is worse than that is the reaction from these boards. You see people like this come along all the time, making an account to give some feedback (to a game still in alpha) saying "Why can't I just get in a jeep and outrun the horde?" and the community here dogpiles them and says "git gud or gtfo". Either you like the changes the Fun Pimps make, or you're told in so many words to trot-off and play minecraft. Either you like to play the game their way, or you shouldn't be playing the game.
I mean, there are plenty of legitimate questions.
"Why do vultures stop vehicles?"
"Why do zombie vultures move so fast?"
"Why do zombies tunnel through solid rock?"
"Why does zombie damage multiply when more of them attack one object?"
"Why do the zombies automatically know where you are?"
"Why do the zombies know the layout of your base to path to you?"
"Why do all the PoIs play out the same?"
"Why aren't the traders and settlements smashed during Day 7s like mine is?"
"Why is my loot tied to my level?"
"Why does a hardware store only have stone tools?"
The answer to each of those is that the Fun Pimps have systematically nerfed every route through the game so that your optimal strategy is to play the game in the manner they intend. All those other 'options' that the player might try? They're WRONG.
People come in and see this amazing game with all this freedom that the player can have. An exciting experience where they can decide and execute the strategy on how to deal with the zombie apocalypse... except then they discover that after a patch or two they've been playing it WRONG. The Fun Pimps do not agree with their playstyle. So zombie cobras that move through walls are introduced to nerf that playstyle. And the game is still unfinished. It's been what, like 7 years?
Oh, and then anyone who comments about it on the boards here is told that they're wrong too. Either grind up and get your guns in the PoIs and build your concrete cube or trap-tower and play the game how we play it or GTFO.
So, my condolences to you, OP. Welcome to 7 Days to Die. This is now your intended experience. "Enjoy."
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
So much anger...if you had bothered reading the discussions in here people were actually coming up with good ways to handle the change (including the OP) and you come in here with your toxic attitude...
Demandred1957
New member
Which is the way I try to play it... Everybody talking about "oh, it's just a slight penalty, I want the game to be harder" needs to try permadeath for a while.. you will be changing your tune after you have 40-50 hours into a save, and then you buy it because of a cheesy anti-cheese mechanism..
Demandred1957
New member
Try playing permadeath for a while if you think the game is too easy, and dying is a "slight penalty".. I have been trying to play that way for the last 2-3 saves. Nothing like seeing a save you have a lot of time in go down the crapper because you made a mistake and got ganked..
And while it hasn't happened to me yet, I would be super po'd if I got ganked because of a cheesy anti-cheese mechanism.
That's why i'm really glad Vedui recorded that video.
It would have been total rage mode, if after 30-40 hrs in, something went south during a horde, and out of the blue I got mobbed like that on my real permadeath save..
Not true. until I reduced their mass, they were stopping the 4x4 with every hit almost with only 5 birds.
Maybe you should try playing "dead is dead" aka permadeath if you think the game isn't challenging enough..
That's the way I have been playing it for the last several saves.
it's several different tweaks in several places, basically use word pad in the xml files and use "find" to locate all files with the word vulture in it and adjust to your taste. Everything is in plain English, and though it may take a while, by trial and error you can get the result you want.
Last edited by a moderator:
Here is a picture of my current A19 base on Day 9, I know I'm slow. The first two layers and corners are already reinforced concrete, only a few blocks of flagstone remain on the outer layers. Right now it's 7x7x4, I'll remove/upgrade the wood and make it higher after day 14 and probably have at least the bottom 2 layers if not the bottom 4 layers to steal by day 21.
This is from my test world. The base (7x7x7 and 3 layers deep) took around 500 steel blocks and 80 spikes to build, with no storage or crafting area since it was just a quick test. It was on nomad difficulty with 35 max alive and a game stage of 265. I used 800 7.62 (full auto m60, no aiming), 75 grenades, 60 molotovs, a few shot gun shells (for birds), and no other defenses. I lost count of how many cops exploded but two demolishers were set off; not by me. When it was over 22 base blocks were missing all on the outside, 3 layer 2 blocks were damaged, non on layer 3, 8 blocks were down to reinforced concrete, and it took 217 steel to repair damaged steel blocks, I didn’t repair the concrete, only a few spikes were damaged. Also I was kinda lazy since it was just a test world and didn’t move around enough, and probably should of build the roof bigger or added sides to it. So to sum up it would take around 25 stacks of iron to build and maybe 3 stacks to repair, which is not hard by that game stage.
Last edited by a moderator:
Demandred1957
New member
That's interesting... Although I think when you get to later stages in the real save, they are going to cut through one spot somewhere and get to the inside where you got that drop chest etc. I'm currently playing on Pregen 01 and there isnt a handy pawnshop to build onto like the one in my video, otherwise I would be doing that base again. Glock9 base ftw!
I just want to reply to the above part of your longer post. Its crazy that all the different kinds of ways to deal with the problem are still available in the game.
Fortress? Check. Just look at the pictures from Nfg above
Digging a bunker? Check. Sure, you have to give them some accessway so they don't dig randomly and yes, you have to fight the horde even in a bunker, but it works. I've done a crafting base and a horde base as a bunker.
Kill-tower? Check. At least if you mean a really high tower, where zombies try to climb up the ladders and you shoot them from above? Yes, done that as well.
Outrunning the horde? Check. I think it was RestInPeaces who explained you just need running shoes, college jacket and lots of coffee and light armor. This might even be a bit too easy, but it is hard to balance I would assume.
The AI doesn't magically change on a test world and it doesn’t care about your storage boxes. As long as they don't have a path to you they go into destroy everything mode. This is the same basic design I’ve had since A17, RIP pillar 100 bases, I’ll miss you. :-( I’m more of a base day one with permadeath kinda person. Unless I find the T5 book store, then I’m a base day 2 person with a life time supply of plastic.
Boidster
New member
Well, if I make a conscious decision to change my play style, then I absolutely would expect different game mechanics to take on greater or lesser importance. I think vultures need some balance, for sure, but as I showed above it is still possible to avoid the horde on a vehicle, with careful planning. It's not ideal, but we're on an experimental of an alpha - gotta adapt to some things. It's why I avoid DiD play - the game is just too unstable and I don't want to get angry at it and then come here to rant in the forums. I've got other places to rant about other things, I don't need a new one!
I probably shouldn’t add fuel to the fire but your right, I also find it odd that people don’t rise up in protest about the mostly new game they get every year for free. 7 years of free updates how dare they.
Seriously, do you have any idea how long it takes to develop software? The company I work for has been developing the same software for over 20 years with no signs of stopping. Also we charge a lot of money for updates, so be happy you don’t have pay for yours.
Last edited by a moderator:
Demandred1957
New member
Unstable is one thing, but cheesy Mc'cheesum mechanics is another. If the game crashed and wiped my save thats one thing, that would wipe you out regardless of how you played. To me, that's what "unstable" is, and for all it's faults, it's not unstable. If it has crashed on me just because, I don't remember it. Being changed all the time to try and curb exploits isn't unstable. So live bold, and try some permadeath (sorry DiD doesn't have the same final ring to it) for a while. Then you will look at things quite a bit different.
Permadeath never really changed my play style, playing base day one did that. You hold your ground or you die trying, no ladders, no escape vehicles, no plan B. Your base falls you lose everything, even if could get some of your stuff again. Good luck trying to build a new base on day 85 with what you have on your back. Bonus points if you also play delete everything on death.
Also if someone could make a mod that disables your bed roll on hoard night and turns your land clam into trader blocks if you die on hoard night or it is destroyed would be amazing.
Last edited by a moderator:
Feycat
New member
I just wanna say I would LOVE this!
I would also really like the Trader Joel's "closing soon" announcement to take on a different tone of day 7's. Maybe they close at mid-day, and they say "Trader Joel's is closing soon, and for those who will soon be weathering the blood moon, may god have mercy on your soul."
Last edited by a moderator:
This attack is weird. For starters, not only did I never say that the game should be easy, an escape vehicle means one thing: the danger level has gone up too high and the player can't take it anymore.
- This does not invalidate the entire danger. There's a limit to danger that people can withstand, and it's different for every person, especially considering their playstyle.
- This whole argument seems to rest on the idea that people will use vehicle to bypass bloodmoon entirely every time. If they would do that, they'd have turned off blood moon from the start
- This discards the effort the player make before they get overwhelmed by the horde and decided they need to bail
Let's talk about base design for a moment
The pyramid is an exploit. Sure, I can see that. I talked at length about non-pyramid base design, one with staircases and a single block wide walkway whereby zombies walk single file, letting themselves be shot at. This does not seem to violate the rule, I remember seeing variations of this base design since before A19, and they are for what it's worth almost as easy as cheesy base designs like the pyramids.
And as I see it, exploitative base design is simply a hazard of granting players freedom of building. They are allowed to do things that you do not expect. But really, this is not the point. Player should face the horde, I've never said they shouldn't
and I do not agree with this.
I cannot speak for everyone, yet even a cheater that I play with -- one who spawns in dev items in basically every game he could -- does not do it for the sake of doing it. There's a reason to his madness: the difficulty has risen far above his limits. I can say for certain his limit of difficulty is very, very low yet I do think that based on the playstyle I've seen across my own sessions and YouTube, that is the only difference between his playstyle and others. He still experienced the fear, apprehension, tension, and pressure that everyone else experienced.
Knowing that you have an escape vehicle for when the excrement hits the rotating aerial impeller means preparation. A motorbike or car is not something you build early game, you need effort to get them, at least in normal gameplay. I don't see people neglecting the base defenses by exclaiming "eh there's a car anyway". Even this cheater still fights, he still builds defenses like a normal person would.
The tools he use to do it may very well be overkill, but I'd say his fear of dying is probably even bigger than mine, who is confident a pistol will do just fine. That's why he resorts to overkill tools.
Feycat
New member
Yup, that's the exact "solid base with a ring of bars around the top" that has literally always worked in every single alpha. Fill in the bottom to be one solid block and it's undefeatable. I would have added a 1-deep 2-wide moat of spikes to yours, but basically I have a version of that base at the beginning of every alpha because it's tried, true and always works. By the end of the alpha I've usually figured out something more interesting, depending on the AI, but this one always works. And it's easy to expand with an outer wall, spike pits, electric fences, turrets, etc if you want to. There's honestly no need for cheese AI-taunting bases, because this one works. The other bases are just for fun and interest.
Yeah but they couldnt do that so they started to add impossible mobs what pass throught walls and other madness what resulted in a game where the only acceptable way to defend your base is a long @%$*#! pathway what is on both sides reinforced with towers while you muster a literal golem army at the bottom point so the whole thing is cheesed down by brute force approach. Strategy is no longer relevant because the devs ruined that.