PC Open Letter to TFP's...

[Demandred1957]

If you mention numbers, at least make sure they are correct, dude. In the video at 5:19 the first bird arrives and it took until maybe about 5:38 for the full group of birds to arrive. Notice that at this moment, after 19 seconds, he has just lost 4 measly hitpoints. It takes until 5:49 before he really gets into trouble and loses massively HP.

I don't know which words I put into your mouth. I see it as a mistake to fall down. It is also my opinion that using the 4x4 ín A18 and before was just too safe, whether you use it the whole night or as a whimpy escape vehicle. Where is the need to build a horde base if you instead can just drive around and be totally safe? Where is the danger? Where is the effort? Where is the smallest difficulty in driving around if the hordes can't reach or attack you?

I'll try to explain the difference between 4x4 (in A18) and my race track idea:

You could drive the vehicle with absolutely no danger, no effort and no ammo consumption and avoid the horde.

The race track idea likely needs at least 3-5 stations on the track with traps and turrets. So you need to build the stations, make a racetrack you can follow in the night and remove obstacles. That is the effort. The danger might be if you lose orientation and need more than 20 seconds to get to the next station. I don't know, has to be tested. And you have ammo consumption to feed all those SMG turrets.

The thing is, if building this track should proove too easy and the danger trivial (i.e. my idea works too good) TFP may balance further to make this race track not work anymore. But my interest in this idea is only there if it isn't too easy anyway, so I'm perfectly fine with that idea getting patched away or as you call it "taken away".

I don't really care what Glock9 does, and I already mentioned that I don't care if you drove away on horde night in your recent game. I don't care whether you turn on god mode in the future or mod A19 so that you still can drive away in your car free from vultures. I care that the vanilla unmodded game is eventually balanced so that all the options on horde night have advantages and disadvantages. I want those vultures to attack vehicles.

Because it's so balanced to have a flock of 2 lb birds flip and destroy a two ton 4x4 right?? lol..

And ok, explain in stupid detail,  how using your exploit is any different than just using the vehicle that I had to grind away for hours to get?

What you are really saying is you want to stand and die in unmodded game when you cut all the bluster out.

You can't use anything to help you survive, you cant run away, you just have to stand there and take it.. that  IS the direction they are headed, which was the point of me posting that guys comment.

There are going to be NO options with advantages on horde nights the way it's going. Just like that guy said.

 

[meganoth]

Because it's so balanced to have a flock of 2 lb birds flip and destroy a two ton 4x4 right?? lol..

And ok, explain in stupid detail,  how using your exploit is any different than just using the vehicle that I had to grind away for hours to get?

What you are really saying is you want to stand and die in unmodded game when you cut all the bluster out.

You can't use anything to help you survive, you cant run away, you just have to stand there and take it.. that  IS the direction they are headed, which was the point of me posting that guys comment.

There are going to be NO options with advantages on horde nights the way it's going. Just like that guy said.

Whats up with this unneccessary drama? You will always be able to build a horde base to defend against the horde. It is one of the pillars of the game. And there are even ways to fight in the street or use POIs.

Yes you need to build the car once. But you are supposed to want the vehicles for driving to other places anyway so it isn't really an effort just for horde night. And besides a trivial amount of gas there are absolutely no recurring costs. The race track will likely cost the same material as a small horde base for the stations AND will cost regularily a few stacks of 9mm or shotgun ammo.

Again, we are talking just about an idea at the moment. It might not work and get whoever tries it killed or it might work too good. THAT is the fun part, trying it out, and if it fails trying to improve it. 

 

[JaxTeller718]

If you are going to avoid the horde you can disable it instead. If you want to make it rarer there is an option for that too.

If you can just bail anytime you feel like, there is no reason for the horde to even spawn. Or for all of these defenses, traps etc, to exist. It's supposed to be an event that threatens you, not just a few optional targets for you to shoot at.

Shh dont tell them they have options. They dont like that. They will play on default dammit and if they dont like it it will just have to change for them.

Before you massacre me for my attitude, sorry but there are options. To do all of what you want to do. Youre saying you want to play default. But you dont. And thats ok. No one will belittle you for it.

Same goes for hardcore players who play on default and then say its easy. Turn it up. Mod it. Dont be afraid. 

Edit - Wasnt referring to you Rest just so you know lol

 

[Laz Man]

Wouldn't matter if he got off then killed them or not, they just insta spawn right back in full force.

You know what makes for good game play and fun? Having a challenge you can beat in a fair way if you are smart and good enough.

Never asked for a simulation, just want a balanced challenge without stupid game breaking mechanics.

They got their name on point though, cause they are pimping fun out on the street corner with a black eye with some of this stuff.

And your racetrack idea would be a exploit btw...jus saying.

How about you try it out before getting so worried about it?  All this drama over what you saw in someones video doesnt give you any creditability in my book.

I know it's hard to accept but it's a gameplay change as it was never intended for players to use their vehicles to have complete immunity from the blood moon event regardless how "realistic" it would be to do so otherwise.

As far as insta spawn concerns.  The entire blood moon event is insta spawn GPS zombies so not sure why that is any different to you lol...

Mega said it best, if a certain strategy requires little effort from the player to over come a challenge, it's probably not working as designed and the devs will probably adjust it.

I sincerely hope you find your happy place with the game otherwise you should move on or take a break as it's just causing you unnecessary heartache...

 

[Damocles]

The zombies should also attack any vehicle parked outside and easy to reach.

No more slacking with the safe parking.

 

[Laz Man]

The zombies should also attack any vehicle parked outside and easy to reach.

No more slacking with the safe parking.

Madmole doesnt have that issue...

...because he blows his up with dart traps right before the blood moon lol...

 

[Ralathar44]

No kidding.. But the base game shouldn't be so hard as to need to turn the default settings down. You masochist expert players are all like "git gud noob" that is so b.s. The should keep the settings to make it insane like that on the far end of the difficulty slider. There is a concept called good sportsmanship. TFP need to look that up in the dictionary. On default settings, I should have a good chance of surviving for a long time, as long as I play smart and am careful. This crap they introduced of insta spawning vultures that can stop a two ton 4x4 truck and destroy it is totally unbalanced and broken. If a newer player has a horde go bad, of course they are going to try and bail. It would be the only smart thing to do. But no, TFP have to CHEAT, and fire vulture missiles at you just to satisfy their sense of pride. Just because it's called 7 days to die, doesn't mean it has to be so broken. Like the guy said, at this rate they are going to have ghost zombie snakes that you can't touch that come in a kill you regardless of what you do. Better yet, why don't they just code it so you start with an infection you can't cure, and just make you die on the morning of the 8th day. Cut to the chase and all.

So take your lumps, make your mistakes, and get better.  I did not get to be an "masochist expert player" via osmosis.  I learned 1 death at a time.  I've died ALOT to get where I am in terms of 7DTD skill today.  Makings mistakes is how you identify issues and improve.  If you don't like that then turn down the difficulty or turn off horde night.  Though IMO the default difficulty with 8 zombie hordes is something that any somewhat decent player should be able to handle.  I'm tackling 32/64 zombies at a time on the next difficulty up from default without issue.  8 zombies at a time 1 difficulty down isn't just easier, it's exponentially easier. 

I've done a variety of base design, from bunker bases to catwalks to mazing and etc.  I convert POIs into bases primarily these days because I've gotten so experienced at building my own bases that even eccentric ideas tend to work quite well.  I also have a strict "no repair until after the horde night is over" rule as well as a limit on how many molotovs/explosives I'm allowed to use since they are ridiculously overpowered on anything but the highest difficulties. 

Here's an example of a simple bunker base with a death room that'll see you all the way to Demo zombies late game. Other weapons are actually stronger in that setup than turrets due to superior piercing, range, aim, etc.  So you can run that kind of base with any skill/weapon focus.  Though the new turret AP ammo helps them be more competitive in A19 now.

I'm sorry but "git gud" actually does apply here.  I'm not setting a high bar.  Default difficulty with 8 zombies at a time is entry level.  "Masochist expert players" are on higher difficulties with more zombies at a time.  Time to stop complaining and start learning instead or you'll plateau and stop improving. 

 

[Ralathar44]

People will complain about every exploit that robs them of a riskless horde night.  Water Bases, Underground bases, vehicles, etc.  Ideally TFP would be able to code/implement such things in a way that is not exploitable but still allows you to use those strategies.  Unfortunately the reality of such implementations is not so idealistic both in terms of time/resource cost and in terms of the ability to achieve the prevention of exploits while still allowing people the headcannon usage of the ideas they are attached to.

Personally I'd love if zombified version of the worms from the movie Tremors spawned on horde nights if you tried to run with a vehicle and they flipped you and did significant damage (or destroyed) the vehicle.  That would be thematic and would solve your complaint in a "lore" friendly way.  "Unsportsmanlike" would no longer apply (not that it ever did in the first place) because it's properly justified within the game world.  But such an implementation would take a significant amount of time and resources to develop.  I'm sure TFP would love to make more complicated solutions if they hand an unlimited workforce and resources, but you have to make hard time/resource management choices in games....that's their job.  And part of our jobs as gamers is understanding the harsh realities and limitations they work within.  We may not always agree with their choices, but I think steam charts show pretty clearly that they've done right by this game since the numbers keep growing...which is impressive for a PVE game like this 7+ years in.

 

[Roland]

If you build underground highways it seems like you would be able to drive around on horde night. 
 

hmmmmmm I wonder if you just built a circular course with turrets spaced along it or a full canopy over the road...

We may not always agree with their choices, but I think steam charts show pretty clearly that they've done right by this game since the numbers keep growing...which is impressive for a PVE game like this 7+ years in.

The problem is that when people who are unhappy with the changes see that, they just assume that most of those people are either unhappily playing or are playing Alpha 16....

They will never believe they aren’t part of the majority. 

 

[Laz Man]

If you build underground highways it seems like you would be able to drive around on horde night. 
 

hmmmmmm I wonder if you just built a circular course with turrets spaced along it or a full canopy over the road...

That actually sounds fun.  Something I have been meaning to try but just have never gotten to it is a turret obstacle course.  Run to zone one, defend with robo turrets/auto turrets.....then move to zone 2....zone 3...back to zone 1.  Could be a lot of fun if done right.

Edit:  Wish we could slide down slopes, would be the next best things to zip lines.  Start at zone 1 at top of a tower....slide down to zone 2....zone 3.....etc.

@wolfbain5 started a mobile blood moon defense back in A18 which was pretty cool...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIb-vIHLtUk

 

[Roland]

That actually sounds fun.  Something I have been meaning to try but just have never gotten to it is a turret obstacle course.  Run to zone one, defend with robo turrets/auto turrets.....then move to zone 2....zone 3...back to zone 1.  Could be a lot of fun if done right.

Edit:  Wish we could slide down slopes, would be the next best things to zip lines.  Start at zone 1 at top of a tower....slide down to zone 2....zone 3.....etc.

Right?  Way more fun than just assuming that driving on horde night is now impossible. Doing it like it used to be able to be done...maybe. But with adaptation and creativity never say never. 

 

[Roland]

For sure it has memes about how long it has been in development..

Oh the horror!  What the hell have we done taking so long that memes have resulted. In light of that I wish like you that the game had just released in May of 2014 looking like Quake and half of what the console version ended up with in terms of content. 
 

Nobody would still be playing it by now but at least we would have avoided meme status....

 

[Roland]

In reading back I see that Mega thought of the same possible solution as I did. Great minds. 
 

Every update there have been those who just rant that certain things are now impossible and then there are those who find the solutions.
 

Then the rest of us copy those second guys when they make videos....

 

[manni44]

In reading back I see that Mega thought of the same possible solution as I did. Great minds. 
 

Every update there have been those who just rant that certain things are now impossible and then there are those who find the solutions.
 

Then the rest of us copy those second guys when they make videos....

and in the next update those things will be nerfed, removed too  thats called Development 

 

[Roland]

Not everything gets removed. We can still build bases and defend existing POIs by reinforcing them. I can’t see how they could take away building a long “base” built like a track (possibly covered or underground) with zones set up for temporary defense. Maybe they might but there seems to be a clear pattern to things they have nerfed.

But if they do then I want to give the strategy a go while it works. That’s the fun of early access. We are going to be able to have fond memories of play styles and strategies that future players will never ever see or try. 

 

[sadpickle]

Those super vultures are one of the dumbest things I've seen in a long time. If that's intended behavior I despair for the future of the game.

 

[Demandred1957]

Not everything gets removed. We can still build bases and defend existing POIs by reinforcing them. I can’t see how they could take away building a long “base” built like a track (possibly covered or underground) with zones set up for temporary defense. Maybe they might but there seems to be a clear pattern to things they have nerfed.

But if they do then I want to give the strategy a go while it works. That’s the fun of early access. We are going to be able to have fond memories of play styles and strategies that future players will never ever see or try. 

yeah like basic reality of using things like any normal person would..

A underground tunnel?? for real?? Turn CM off and try that in survival mode. you might get something workable somewhere around day 35 if thats all you do..

The amount of "what aboutism" from you guys is just silly. Never had a under water base, cause thats just silly.

Never tried to dig to Chyna, and hide out either.. (although that honestly should be 100% allowed since it's using your brain).

But now the devs are acting like little kids, throwing a fit because they don't like how players are playing in their sandbox..

And like how you said, they are nerfing things in a pattern.. Yep, painting you into a corner, forcing you to play things THEIR way, rather than just giving you a problem, and letting you have fun solving it your way..

Since I play in single player, guess I'm just going to start building cheese bases using methods they can't patch out without totally redoing the game mechanics from the ground up. Then i'm going to make funny videos taunting them about it. lol

 

[Roland]

Those super vultures are one of the dumbest things I've seen in a long time. If that's intended behavior I despair for the future of the game.

I seem to recall you despairing for the future of the game years ago too. Huh.  Keep at it. 

 

[meganoth]

yeah like basic reality of using things like any normal person would..

A underground tunnel?? for real?? Turn CM off and try that in survival mode. you might get something workable somewhere around day 35 if thats all you do..

The amount of "what aboutism" from you guys is just silly. Never had a under water base, cause thats just silly.

Never tried to dig to Chyna, and hide out either.. (although that honestly should be 100% allowed since it's using your brain).

But now the devs are acting like little kids, throwing a fit because they don't like how players are playing in their sandbox..

And like how you said, they are nerfing things in a pattern.. Yep, painting you into a corner, forcing you to play things THEIR way, rather than just giving you a problem, and letting you have fun solving it your way..

Since I play in single player, guess I'm just going to start building cheese bases using methods they can't patch out without totally redoing the game mechanics from the ground up. Then i'm going to make funny videos taunting them about it. lol

Recipe for an underground tunnel:

1) Upgrade a poi to temporary horde base that will survive the first 4 hordes

2) Improve your miner skills, get a farm up, get mining equipment

3) Cut out the sides up to the surface and bottom of your tunnel. Be careful with the bottom. Because of SI aka gravity the inner blocks will fall down and mostly vanish, which means a lot less digging work

4) Add a new ceiling, material is not a problem, you got that from digging.

Warning: If you don't like mining, don't do it.

About silliness: The developer and many players here value fun and balance more than realism. This game is not really dead serious nor aspiring to be very realistic.

I myself would make the game even more silly in all directions if I had any say in it.

 

[Boidster]

But now the devs are acting like little kids, throwing a fit because they don't like how players are playing in their sandbox..

A 'racetrack' horde defense sounds like a ton of fun. Pause at each station for a few moments for the turrets to unload on your pursuers and then race off to the next checkpoint.