PC No Tier 6 Crafting

[Maynard69]

if T6 becomes the legendary tier, then it would make no sense (beyond finding parts of a legendary) that probably have random rolls and can't be used interchangeably (no using a shovel handle to make a pick etc.) to having crafting Q6 work, looting and questing should become the only ways to achieve that (yes "oh no looting is OP nerf nerf nerf!") but some poor unlucky soul out there may have stashed one in an out of the way location and never came back for it...
Lootability: depends on maybe the tier of the building (.01% in tier 1 buildings up to like 5% in tier 5 buildings, so location would contribute to finding them) outside containers might be loot locked to maybe a .5% chance, which isn't big, but still has a chance for some random garbage bag to have a useful legendary (maybe some survivor was rooting through it and dropped a Q6 hunting knife when he fled zombies)

Questing: would depend on difficulty have tier 1 have 0% (sorry no chance straight out of the gate) T2 have .01% up to T5 having maybe a 5% chance (since most T5 quests are in T5 buildings, that's 2+chances to get one {loot containers all have that small chance and then the quest itself [having Daring adventurer high gives the same 5% but multiple pulls from loot table]}

this above (rant? satirical phrasing?) is just my views

Idk about rant, I see a lot of assuming though. You are assuming legendary will be able to be looted normally. Assuming you might get them as normal quest rewards,

I was thinking more like a special treasure map that spawns a horde of specials, or a boss. Or a quest where you have multiple objectives from the trader. (retrieve special weapon part, then craft x item and y item in a workbench and chem station and return to the trader for a chance to see if he can revive the legendary item)..

Its all speculation though on both our parts. Who knows how it will end up when they are done. We sure dont.

 

[Maynard69]

I have no problem with legendaries being there either, I just feel that legendaries creating a new "quality" level is not the way to go.
They should be unique items that fall within the existing quality levels, thus leaving the balance of current quality levels intact, and giving a truly unique item as your "legendary" reward.

This could also mean finding a lower "quality'" legendary item, furthering the search for yet more legendaries.

Nice opinion. Until I actually see the completed system I am going to assume on the side of the TFP's vision for it rather than your opinion though. Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Roland]

If you want to use my wording against me, at least use the context you yourself stated. If it takes week 999999999 to get outfitted in purples, or "never" get to craft them, and you truly think its the same, then what's the point of purples?

The point is to never be completely outfitted in purple either by crafting or looting. Being completely outfitted in purples is OP. At most you have 2-4 in one game.

 

[Roland]

That's far from the "only way this can go down and work", as you put it. Unless you mean this is the only thing the TFP team managed to come up with... in which case I would be inclined to agree. That'd be par for the course.

I may have been utilizing some hyperbole there.

 

[Roland]

Make it so the items you craft at T6 can never have these special effects. EZPZ. Get the mod slots, still worth the use but still not quite the tippy top.

So you ARE okay with not being able to craft the tippy top. In principle you are with TFP just not in what they have defined as the tippy top.

 

[manni44]

The point is to never be completely outfitted in purple either by crafting or looting. Being completely outfitted in purples is OP. At most you have 2-4 in one game.

Whats the point with that ? I dont know a single RPG where u cant get full purple outfit... They even put full purple Armor sets in the games. All i can think of is u are hard trying to keep the illusion "hey i still can get better gear" which makes no sense to me.

 

[Sydious]

The point is to never be completely outfitted in purple either by crafting or looting. Being completely outfitted in purples is OP. At most you have 2-4 in one game.

I know I said I was done but I have to respond to this...

If the direction/goal is 2-4 in one game why not make it an equal playing field so everyone can enjoy the game the way they want. We already have to loot and scrap to craft them anyway for ♥♥♥♥ sake.

 

[Maynard69]

The point is to never be completely outfitted in purple either by crafting or looting. Being completely outfitted in purples is OP. At most you have 2-4 in one game.

I honestly do not like the sound of that either. It defeats the purpose if they are THAT rare. Shouldnt you be able to put a lot of effort in and probably get at least the Legendaries you were aiming for?

The questing system is already in place. Using that or variance of that for the possibility to farm legendaries (with much effort) would have a far greater impact to the player. If something is SO rare you wont get, it might as well not exist. (especially with 100% rng and no objective besides looting that ups your chance) The player will play then as if legendary didnt exist.

"I probably wont get any legendary I am aiming for so meh, who cares that they are there."

 

[e1ghtbit]

So you ARE okay with not being able to craft the tippy top. In principle you are with TFP just not in what they have defined as the tippy top.

Yes I am ok with crafting being less. Just not a whole quality tier less.

If I could have a chance to craft a t5 with a bonus mod slot I would be perfectly fine with that.

 

[M.C.]

The point is to never be completely outfitted in purple either by crafting or looting. Being completely outfitted in purples is OP. At most you have 2-4 in one game.

Is that your personal opinion? Or the dev team's design goal?

 

[M.C.]

If something is SO rare you wont get, it might as well not exist. (especially with 100% rng and no objective besides looting that ups your chance) The player will play then as if they didnt exist.

Oh, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition! I am really glad to see at least someone here understands this concept.

 

[Roland]

Is that your personal opinion? Or the dev team's design goal?

Personal. I have no idea exactly how rare the legendaries will be. I have said a number of times that it is still a work in progress. I threw 2 to 4 out there as a ballpark simply to mean that they will be rare and you shouldn’t expect to get a full complete set of legendary tools legendary weapons legendary armor in one Playthrough. This whole discussion is speculative from all sides because not even TFP has figured out the final balance for everything yet. This is alpha. We are guinea pigs.

We know that they plan for legendary‘s to be loot only. They have not revealed whether purple quality will be legendary’s or if there will be a higher quality tier at some point. They have said that purples for now are going to be very rare and removed from trader inventories.

There’s quite a lot we don’t know yet.

 

[Synvastian]

Personal. I have no idea exactly how rare the legendaries will be. I have said a number of times that it is still a work in progress. I threw 2 to 4 out there as a ballpark simply to mean that they will be rare and you shouldn’t expect to get a full complete set of legendary tools legendary weapons legendary armor in one Playthrough. This whole discussion is speculative from all sides because not even TFP has figured out the final balance for everything yet. This is alpha. We are guinea pigs.
We know that they plan for legendary‘s to be loot only. They have not revealed whether purple quality will be legendary’s or if there will be a higher quality tier at some point. They have said that purples for now are going to be very rare and removed from trader inventories.

There’s quite a lot we don’t know yet.

this is how im taking this....>2-4 in an average game where you wouldn't focus directly on trying to get said legendary/purple, so if all you did was chase them down you MIGHT get a full set, but chances are there will be bigger things to worry about while doing so (securing a base, making a horde base, water/food supplies, ammo production, mining... etc)

Loot only makes sure everyone gets some (even crafters have to loot for supplies, so the chance is always there)

Having all armor slots, every weapon and tool is unrealistic with the "new" tier that may or may not come out, as the expenditure to get 1 could be huge {or just super rare} (think mmo's, raids that drop top tier grade materials typically take either groups working together with medium costs, or high personal costs to solo)

 

[Boidster]

A) Hek is more evil than I had thought.

B) The "legendary materials" idea doesn't suck, but in general I agree with Roland's idea that - whatever the mechanic - the very top tier items should be extremely rare. Maybe the game needs named Legendary items which are uncraftable. Roland's Ravager is not something that just any dumb idiot can craft. Roland made a few and stashed them away; if you are incredibly lucky, you can find one! It should have features that no other weapon can ever have. And I've always thought (in other games) that trade-off features are very interesting. 2x damage and 2x chance for dismemberment, but it adds heat to the chunk like a torch when it's in inventory and +20% visibility (debuff to stealth).

For obvious reasons, the game should be playable at all stages without requiring such Legendary gear.

 

[HungryZombie]

Gotcha, but my answer would probably be the same.... at a certain point (I'm not sure what point it would be.... it would be case by case) a higher stat (whether it be damage or ROF or range or whatever) will outweigh a mod slot. I see that as a good thing, as I now have to weigh my options when looking at weapons. It's no longer as clear as purple>blue. Sure, most of the time it will be... but not always.

Yes, this is exactly what I mean. You have choices. Can go with a better accuracy mod or more damage. Makes it interesting.

 

[Roland]

[quote name=Boidster)

For obvious reasons, the game should be playable at all stages without requiring such Legendary gear.

Exactly this. Being fully equipped in the best is blue. With blue everything you can handle anything that comes at you.

And you can craft that.

 

[Sydious]

Never mind

 

[Lia]

The numbers on t5 items may be better or equal to t6 but the loss of a mod slot is crucial.

exactly. There are many people who do not realize that it is even more important because the number of MODs is less than α17.

 

[camelCase]

Two threads over 10 pages long could've been avoided if it was communicated in the patch notes what their intentions were. They've had two opportunities to correct this since and haven't bothered.

This latest change leads me to believe all the things that Roland told us is the case, but I don't think it's fair to put the onus on him to communicate it. A lot of needless frustration and community angst has resulted from it.

I'm on team crafting, I don't think the game will be balanced until crafting can achieve everything that looting can. Balance could be sought in some other area like repairing but the most straight-forward way (and what they should've done for testing) is to do what people are asking for. That said, if T6 is genuinely going to be a very rare drop then I think most of us (myself included) would've swallowed the lack of T6 crafting better.

A very short paragraph in the A18 patch notes (or the two subsequent patches) could've avoided all this trouble.

 

[M.C.]

A very short paragraph in the A18 patch notes (or the two subsequent patches) could've avoided all this trouble.

I don't think that was going to happen. Roland said the devs themselves don't know yet what they want to do about loot, "experimental build" and all.