New quest system algorithm discussion

7

7DaystoPlay

Refugee
Hi, sorry if it has already been addressed. I tried to look up but could not find it.
I mean in regards to the new quest system, grouping the quests by distance.
I have played 2 times in 2.5 and, while the overall changes are very good, this particular point has some major downfalls, in my opinion.
I don't think anyone will travel 2.5km to do a fetch quest in the first day. Hence, even while already having a bicycle, those distant quests will only take up space from feasible ones, reducing in fact the available quests the player can actually do at the start stage of the game.
In my current play, I got a close fetch quest (which of course I had to do) and 2 close restore power quests in day one. Who does restore power quests at day one?
It felt very limiting. I had to get off game and come back to reset the 3 close quests so I could actually do it, since I play offline.
In my modest opinion, the fixed quest format (some close, some medium and some distant) does not offer proper variety, but actually remove player choice.
My suggestion would be something in the lines of:
1) Give more close quests at week one and two than the medium and distant ones, or;
2) Provide settings to adjust the number of quests given and the proximity distribution algorithm (more close quests, less distant ones, etc...).
 
7DaystoPlay said:
Hi, sorry if it has already been addressed. I tried to look up but could not find it.
I mean in regards to the new quest system, grouping the quests by distance.
I have played 2 times in 2.5 and, while the overall changes are very good, this particular point has some major downfalls, in my opinion.
I don't think anyone will travel 2.5km to do a fetch quest in the first day. Hence, even while already having a bicycle, those distant quests will only take up space from feasible ones, reducing in fact the available quests the player can actually do at the start stage of the game.
In my current play, I got a close fetch quest (which of course I had to do) and 2 close restore power quests in day one. Who does restore power quests at day one?
It felt very limiting. I had to get off game and come back to reset the 3 close quests so I could actually do it, since I play offline.
In my modest opinion, the fixed quest format (some close, some medium and some distant) does not offer proper variety, but actually remove player choice.
My suggestion would be something in the lines of:
1) Give more close quests at week one and two than the medium and distant ones, or;
2) Provide settings to adjust the number of quests given and the proximity distribution algorithm (more close quests, less distant ones, etc...).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I commented early on that the changes weren't great. It may help to get more variety, but it creates issues when you only have a few that are close. Instead of 5 that are within 600m or so, you have 3 that are close, 2 that are medium distance, and 1 that is far (or some number of each if I'm getting the numbers wrong). If the close ones are ones like buried supplies or restore power, it really ruins the experience in the early game. I know some don't mind buried supplies quests, but I find them boring and I don't enjoy doing them with a stone shovel so I ignore them whenever I see them. And restore power only lets you do one of them from a given trader, so if you have no other options, you're stuck without quests all day and can do a single one at night, which isn't great.

They should definitely look at that new system and figure out how to improve it because it just isn't very good right now. The idea isn't bad, but the implementation just needs work.
 
Riamus said:
They should definitely look at that new system and figure out how to improve it because it just isn't very good right now. The idea isn't bad, but the implementation just needs work.
Click to expand...
Precisely! We now have the impression of much less quest variety, because so many of them are not feasible early game (because they are too far away, because of the aforementioned stone tools on buried supplies and the restore power). We only have, usually, 1 or 2 options, if much now. It is a step back from the previous system.
Please, guys, consider this with care, because otherwise the 2.5 update is very positive.
 
7DaystoPlay said:
1) Give more close quests at week one and two than the medium and distant ones, or;
Click to expand...
I think it would be better to tie this to GS.
SabinSnake said:
Walking? After doing your tier 1 missions, you get a free bike, and most tier 1 missions are relatively close by trader Rekt's, so there's not too much walking involved, like walking over 1km.
Click to expand...
The author is specifically writing about the first-level quests. To get a bike, you need to complete 10 of these quests.

Personally, I found the system to be fine, but I don't do many quests per day. Usually, it's 1-2 quests per 120-minute day. The rest of the time I spend gathering resources and building my base.
 
Suxar said:
I think it would be better to tie this to GS.

The author is specifically writing about the first-level quests. To get a bike, you need to complete 10 of these quests.

Personally, I found the system to be fine, but I don't do many quests per day. Usually, it's 1-2 quests per 120-minute day. The rest of the time I spend gathering resources and building my base.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was talking about the first level quests (10 tier 1 quests). Though, if you had a friend or 2 doing quests with you, you could get away with doing 4 or 5 quests in 120 min, depending if you do a perimeter preloot before each quest or not.
 
I personally think it would be nice if when asking the trader for quests, the map pops up, and there are pins on it (many) for quest locations. You can zoom in and out, click them to see a preview of the building and what it looks like, and get a description of the quest. An option in the menu to get rid of map fog would also be great. If we built the map, we already have a screenshot of the map, why hide it after..
 
SabinSnake said:
Yeah, I was talking about the first level quests (10 tier 1 quests). Though, if you had a friend or 2 doing quests with you, you could get away with doing 4 or 5 quests in 120 min, depending if you do a perimeter preloot before each quest or not.
Click to expand...
What do friends have to do with this? There are only three close quests, and you still have to run to the fourth one, and without a bike. And there's no point in doing the fifth one at all, since it's not defendable.
 
Yes, my observation as well is that I gravitate to the first three quests because they're close. I do appreciate having 7 choices, but when you combine travel and perhaps a full inventory when returning, distance is a strong determinant.

Perhaps:
On the Tier 1 quest screen, show 5 local and 2 more distant POIs.
On the Tier 2 quest screen, show 4 local and 3 more distant POIs.
On the Tier 3 quest screen, show 3 local and 4 more distant POIs.
On the Tier 4 quest screen, show 2 local and 5 more distant POIs.
On the Tier 5 quest screen, show POIs from all over the map.

The idea being the traders share more distant POIs to players who should have more options for travel and who may have unlocked more biomes.
 
zztong said:
Yes, my observation as well is that I gravitate to the first three quests because they're close. I do appreciate having 7 choices, but when you combine travel and perhaps a full inventory when returning, distance is a strong determinant.

Perhaps:
On the Tier 1 quest screen, show 5 local and 2 more distant POIs.
On the Tier 2 quest screen, show 4 local and 3 more distant POIs.
On the Tier 3 quest screen, show 3 local and 4 more distant POIs.
On the Tier 4 quest screen, show 2 local and 5 more distant POIs.
On the Tier 5 quest screen, show POIs from all over the map.

The idea being the traders share more distant POIs to players who should have more options for travel and who may have unlocked more biomes.
Click to expand...
By tier 4-5, it kind of is working that way already because you often don't have enough of the higher tier quests close by, though that depends on the size of the town you're questing at and RNG. But I do think setting it up that way directly could be a good option so that you have more quests available close by for the earlier tiers and it wouldn't really impact the higher tiers.

I understand the desire to have more variety in the POI by spreading out the quests, and that's good. But it doesn't really work well in the earlier tiers with the current method.
 
Riamus said:
By tier 4-5, it kind of is working that way already because you often don't have enough of the higher tier quests close by,
Click to expand...
It depends on the merchant you take the quest from. There will likely be high-level buildings near the merchant in the wasteland.
 
It's another passive way to elongate the early game, quite clever how they've done it really. I don't apreciate it in my server though, not a fan
 
Worrun said:
It's another passive way to elongate the early game, quite clever how they've done it really. I don't apreciate it in my server though, not a fan
Click to expand...

I might not remember correctly, but I thought Faatal said they were hoping to open up more variety in the Trader's quest offerings so they allowed it to look further away from the trader for some of the selections. The idea being you would get fewer repeat missions.

It may have the effect of elongating the early game, but I didn't take that to be the goal. I see this as one of those changes they make to see if it might get better, but may not turn out to achieve the goal.
 
Unless you're playing solo, it doesn't really have any impact on the length of the early game. Even with 2 people and only 3 quests near the trader, that is 6 quests you can do per day (2 each) if you are working together. Most people aren't going to complete that many in one day. With even more players, that has even less impact.
 
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