PC New challenge: no loot, all materials must be obtained from logging/mining/salvaging

Fox said:
I haven't played in over a year, but if you can't loot, then doesn't that take away most farming related foods and books / blueprints?
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No, in A20 you can unlock all recipes via Master Chef and all seeds via Living of the Land.

Fox said:
And without looting, getting feathers would be really not worth the risks at all.
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Chickens also give feathers and you get sometimes feathers when you destroy nests.

Fox said:
Good luck with blood moon with no ranged weapons.
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Ranged weapons are not a problem. You can build a pipe machine gun.

The real problem are mechanical parts. I know of no source that gives you mechanical parts when using the stone axe. You need a wrench but to build it you need mechanical parts.

 
Roland said:
Reinstall and do it Fox!!
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Nah. I'm currently busy playing Minecraft "MC Eternal" FTB modpack which is ridiculously huge (takes several minutes to load up) and should keep me busy for a while.

I'll likely play this game again when the next update comes out... if it ever comes out.

 
Roland said:
To be fair about what? He said he would like to expand the loot tables for zombie bags and I joked that instead of the game being called a "looter shooter" it could, in that case, be called a Super Shooter Looter. Super because the zombie loot bags would now have anything and everything show up in them and Shooter Looter because you would be shooting zombies to get your loot.

I guess my joke was too subtle because he didn't get my comment and you somehow thought I was defending loot bags I guess?

Since the subject is now brought up.... I think loot bags should mostly be garbage because if they are too good then it incentivizes farming zombies for loot like the game used to be like and which, in my opinion, was a positive change when they got rid of looting bodies. Its bad enough that you get xp rewards for killing zombies. Awesome loot would just increase the problem. In my opinion, xp should be gained based on time survived and be disconnected from killing individual zombies. 
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Why have them drop loot bags at all then? And I'm going to disagree (big surprise, right?) on saying zombies shouldn't give experience at all. That's just an awful take. I would not, however, be opposed to a setting to turn zombie experience gain on and off though.

 
Challenge complete. 

My Crucifix Raider base took the most damage its ever taken. A whole 2% lol. Mostly because I was slowed too much from my injuries and couldnt patch up, as I forgot to get some alovera. So pulled out the bow for a bit. 

Found a way to get a forge. Find two jars of honey. Drink em, then you have enough jars to make the glue. Then smelt sand and glass to make as many jars as you want. 

I got all excited and put a point into shotgun, only to realise there's no way to make a crafting table for bullets. The blunderbuss would have been handy. 

 
Old Crow said:
Why have them drop loot bags at all then? 
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I dunno....we were talking about a mod that @Vaeliorin was thinking about making. Scroll up to his post where he describes what he wants to do. All I was doing was making up a name for his mod as a joke...

Old Crow said:
And I'm going to disagree (big surprise, right?) on saying zombies shouldn't give experience at all. That's just an awful take.
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Okay, but there was a 0xp mod that was pretty fun in which you got no xp for doing any actions. Instead, you earned a skillpoint at the end of each day in which you hadn't died. At the end of two days you earned 2 skillpoints and at the end of the third day and afterward you would earn 3 skillpoints as long as you didn't die. If you died then you would have to start over and build up to the 3 skillpoints a day.

It was quite freeing. You did whatever you wanted and it didn't matter. You could avoid zombies or fight them. As long as you didn't die either choice was equally valid. Without an xp reward attached to doing things there was no incentive or greater value placed on any particular action. Having played that and also having played the game once upon a time before xp was even a glint in the developers' eyes it is my opinion that the game does quite well without xp being tied to each and every action.

Old Crow said:
I would not, however, be opposed to a setting to turn zombie experience gain on and off though.
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Or maybe that pretty cool mod will get updated again someday...

 
edyonline said:
Found a way to get a forge. Find two jars of honey. Drink em, then you have enough jars to make the glue. Then smelt sand and glass to make as many jars as you want. 
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Impressive. I doubt that this will still be possible in A21. In A21 you don't get an empty jar back when you consume something and you can't make jars either.

 
RipClaw said:
Impressive. I doubt that this will still be possible in A21. In A21 you don't get an empty jar back when you consume something and you can't make jars either.
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Interesting. Hopefully the no loot challenge is easier, as in, you can do most of the content without looting. Not being able to make a wrench, locks out a lot of items.

Wish I figured out the honey jars earlier. I spent first 6 days drinking from one jar lol. Set up a cooker by a pool in Diersville. And by other water sources. I also put two points in gut health to try and reduce the impact, but two points didn’t really do much IMO.

 
Roland said:
Okay, but there was a 0xp mod that was pretty fun in which you got no xp for doing any actions. Instead, you earned a skillpoint at the end of each day in which you hadn't died. At the end of two days you earned 2 skillpoints and at the end of the third day and afterward you would earn 3 skillpoints as long as you didn't die. If you died then you would have to start over and build up to the 3 skillpoints a day.

It was quite freeing. You did whatever you wanted and it didn't matter. You could avoid zombies or fight them. As long as you didn't die either choice was equally valid. Without an xp reward attached to doing things there was no incentive or greater value placed on any particular action. Having played that and also having played the game once upon a time before xp was even a glint in the developers' eyes it is my opinion that the game does quite well without xp being tied to each and every action.

Or maybe that pretty cool mod will get updated again someday...
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That actually sounds really interesting. I would not mind giving something like that a try.

 
I can't remember which game it is. Might be Scum. But I remember playing a survival game where when you fall or take damage there is a chance that fragile things in your backpack break. I would much rather see that happen vs no empty jars in A21, but I am sure that involves a huge system coding workload vs. simply removing the jar spawn once a liquid is used.

 
@edyonline Isn't there still working chem stations and workbenches in POIs? You can still make bullets... you just can't do it from the convenience of your base.

 
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Vaeliorin said:
There are no working workstations anywhere in A20.
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Even in Navezgane? But I thought the trading post areas had working ones and several other places had them too but was random on whether they worked or not.

It has been almost a year since I played... but that's sad to see. Yet another dumb thing the devs removed from the game.

 
Fox said:
Even in Navezgane? But I thought the trading post areas had working ones and several other places had them too but was random on whether they worked or not.

It has been almost a year since I played... but that's sad to see. Yet another dumb thing the devs removed from the game.
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I've never played Navezgane, but from what I've heard there are no working workstations there either.  They were intentionally removed for some reason.  It's not a big deal to me (I always use to forget to mark working workstations, and could never find them again), but it does seem like a somewhat pointless change.

 
Maharin said:
I tried several games with no POIs just to see how far I can get without loot and creating everything I need.  The biggest issue is that without POIs things like metal pipes are incredibly hard to get so you can't make a forge.  Because you can't make a forge you can't make a pot which means most of the cooking stuff is out of reach.  Yeah, it gets ugly.  Only solution I could find in a POI-less world is to add recipes for pipes and pots from scrap metal.  There will be other things in the later stages of the game that will also need to be adjusted unless you're fine not having steel anything, for instance.
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Cant you get them in trash bags now or am I mistaken.

And cars but you need a wrench for that.  Both spawn on a POI free map, do they not?

Roland said:
Or maybe that pretty cool mod will get updated again someday...
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Yes, maybe it could....

that would be WONDERFUL :D

 
FA_Q2 said:
Cant you get them in trash bags now or am I mistaken.
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Yes, trash bags / containers have them as a possible loot item.  Traders also have a chance to sell them.  Though if you removed all POIs, that would include traders.

I recall this issue being discussed before, though the OP back then came at it from a different perspective.  The OP at that time wanted the devs to change the game because they removed all POIs from the game and thought it was a game flaw to not be able to easily craft a forge with the POIs and traders removed from the game.

A suggestion at that time was to modify some of the recipes to account for that penalty you applied to yourself.  Same thing with the wrench.  You can loot the wrench from cars, but it has a very low priority to do so.  Doing this would still fall under the overall goal of building stuff from scratch (and not looting) but not put yourself in a box with zero or little chance of getting out of it.

Same thing with weapon parts.  Create a recipe for them so they become craftable.

 
BFT2020 said:
I recall this issue being discussed before, though the OP back then came at it from a different perspective.  The OP at that time wanted the devs to change the game because they removed all POIs from the game and thought it was a game flaw to not be able to easily craft a forge with the POIs and traders removed from the game.
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LOL.  Ya, that sounds like some of us entitled forum rats :D

If those darn devs only knew what I know they could sell a LOT more copies of their best selling game. Just look at my zero steam sales ever. 

 
BFT2020 said:
Yes, trash bags / containers have them as a possible loot item.  Traders also have a chance to sell them.  Though if you removed all POIs, that would include traders.

I recall this issue being discussed before, though the OP back then came at it from a different perspective.  The OP at that time wanted the devs to change the game because they removed all POIs from the game and thought it was a game flaw to not be able to easily craft a forge with the POIs and traders removed from the game.

A suggestion at that time was to modify some of the recipes to account for that penalty you applied to yourself.  Same thing with the wrench.  You can loot the wrench from cars, but it has a very low priority to do so.  Doing this would still fall under the overall goal of building stuff from scratch (and not looting) but not put yourself in a box with zero or little chance of getting out of it.

Same thing with weapon parts.  Create a recipe for them so they become craftable.
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That was a thread that I created and I was also the one that said that modifying / adding recipes for pipes and pots was the only way I could make it work in the early game.  The goal with the experiment (no POIs including traders, as little looting options as possible) was to see if crafting-only was even an option and it wasn't.

I did nothing in that thread except point out that there was a circular dependency between forges and pipes (you need a pipe to make a forge and a forge to make a pipe) that the devs might want to consider changing it if crafting-only games were something they were interested in supporting (and at the time at least they apparently were not interested).  Adding a recipe to "craft" pipes from scrap (or consider it finding pipes within a pile of scrap) would probably be enough to make it work.  Crafting pots from scrap (from a piece of sheet metal, for instance) was just a way to allow cooking to progress without waiting for a forge.

I made no demands but I was repeatedly and aggressively bashed for even suggesting that someone might want to play without POIs/looting and that in doing so I deserved all the bad things in life.  Nobody was interested in discussing the idea and nobody saw the forge/pipe circular dependency as a real issue.  But it very much is an issue if you want to play a crafting-only play through, which was the main point I was trying to get across in that thread.

 
Maharin said:
That was a thread that I created and I was also the one that said that modifying / adding recipes for pipes and pots was the only way I could make it work in the early game.  The goal with the experiment (no POIs including traders, as little looting options as possible) was to see if crafting-only was even an option and it wasn't.

I did nothing in that thread except point out that there was a circular dependency between forges and pipes (you need a pipe to make a forge and a forge to make a pipe) that the devs might want to consider changing it if crafting-only games were something they were interested in supporting (and at the time at least they apparently were not interested).  Adding a recipe to "craft" pipes from scrap (or consider it finding pipes within a pile of scrap) would probably be enough to make it work.  Crafting pots from scrap (from a piece of sheet metal, for instance) was just a way to allow cooking to progress without waiting for a forge.

I made no demands but I was repeatedly and aggressively bashed for even suggesting that someone might want to play without POIs/looting and that in doing so I deserved all the bad things in life.  Nobody was interested in discussing the idea and nobody saw the forge/pipe circular dependency as a real issue.  But it very much is an issue if you want to play a crafting-only play through, which was the main point I was trying to get across in that thread.
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No, I don't think that wasn't you.  I don't recall you demanding the devs change the game to suit your needs.  The one I am thinking of, the OP actually stated that the Devs needed to fix the game so they can play it the way they wanted to, not have to mod it so they can play it the way they want to.

The forge / pipe circular dependency only occurs when you eliminate large portions of the vanilla game, which isn't really something that the developers need to address since it is outside the parameters of the game scope they are working on, and an issue that can easily be addressed by modding the game for that person.

 
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