PC Needed nerf

[ricp]

The same can literally be said for any weapon.

I don't find that to be true, to be honest, but even then remember that comment is specifically in response to someone claiming JaWoodle's undying devotion to batons when, for anyone who has actually watched the videos, that is definitely not the case. The baton is the only(*) melee weapon in the game that has better DPS at the top tier when using standard swings rather than power attacks, which makes it an outlier.

(* - this may be the case for the machete. It's improved in v1.x, and it has similar sorts of perks regarding the speed and accuracy of hits in the same way the baton has.)

Obviously my opinion is (by definition) subjective. I've simply never liked the feel, look or the sound, whether it be the normal or stun variety.

 

[8_Hussars]

If anything JaWoodle's recent play through is actually proving my point, not negating it. He most definitely hasn't been "proving it in every episode" as he's mirrored my complaints pretty much up until he got the perks, the armour, the top tier stun baton and the candies. Of the 23 episodes there have been, it's about 5 of them where he's actually praised the weapon and that's only because he had to change the way he plays the game to fit into the baton's meta. I couldn't care less what IzPrebuilt says, and Glock's love for the baton is mostly tongue in cheek.

It's not at all OP in any circumstance ever, other than horde night. I prefer agility, and will end up with a top tier SMG, and when it has all the perks and armor buffs it will clear out a room far easier and far quicker than repeatedly slamming a pipe into a body that is being bounced all over the place.

We are all welcome to our opinions, mate.  JW pros and cons, or any other CCs is irrelevant.  What you and I prefer in the game is irrelevant.

The point was, the SBs OP performance is on the screen for all to see.  That fact that with a non-matching play style and no min/maxing it was getting JW out of jams that any other melee weapon would have meant death, speaks volumes.

 

[ricp]

We are all welcome to our opinions, mate.

We absolutely are, but bare in mind we are only swapping comments because you didn't like mine.. ..in fact, you are doubling down despite this comment..

JW pros and cons, or any other CCs is irrelevant.

....but you carry on.

 

[ryoendymon]

The stun baton is NOT just a club with a stun....read the last 2 levels of the medicine perk.  In addition to all the club skills, and its unique stun ability, unique repulsir mod, unique candy, the last 2 ranks of medicine further amp up its ability to dismember and decapitate. 

So it's the best stun weapon, best CC weapon, best 1shot weapon, if it could chop up bodies for meat absolutely nothing would have any benefit over it.

Also, this isn't beta....this isn't early......this is release

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

If anything JaWoodle's recent play through is actually proving my point, not negating it. He most definitely hasn't been "proving it in every episode" as he's mirrored my complaints pretty much up until he got the perks, the armour, the top tier stun baton and the candies. Of the 23 episodes there have been, it's about 5 of them where he's actually praised the weapon and that's only because he had to change the way he plays the game to fit into the baton's meta. I couldn't care less what IzPrebuilt says, and Glock's love for the baton is mostly tongue in cheek.

It's not at all OP in any circumstance ever, other than horde night. I prefer agility, and will end up with a top tier SMG, and when it has all the perks and armor buffs it will clear out a room far easier and far quicker than repeatedly slamming a pipe into a body that is being bounced all over the place.

It lacks as soon as you get radiated Z´s if you play batons only. But that´s not how the stun baton is supposed to be used. The combination of the stunning effect and turrets is what makes it great and that´s what it is made for. Go and do a T6 infested with the stun baton using nerdtats and 2 junk turrets. It´s OP af if played right. The nerd gloves give you +60% damage on INT based weapons and you have 3 weapons doing damage at the same time and they all get a benefit from that bonus. Throw in some mollies and it´s laughable easy doing a T6 on survivalist. Also the ammo is super easy to craft.

So yeah it´s OP if played right. On it´s own not so much.

Playing with the stun baton not using turrets and saying it´s not OP, is like having a ferrari and only driving it in the first gear and complaining it´s too slow.

 

[WarMongerian]

You don't even need Daring Adventurer for that.  In fact, it might not really be making as much difference as you think.  Even without it, the traders offer high quality and tier items right from day 1.  It all depends on the luck of the choices for items and you can get a selection without good stuff, but you can also get a selection with very good stuff.  DA just increases the chances of getting better stuff, but you can get that stuff without it just fine.  Traders have already received some balancing but they need more.  The available items at the trader should be tied to your gamestage or lootstage or something.  No buying crucibles on day 1, no buying tier 3 weapons on day 1, no buying even tier 0/1 Q5 weapons on day 1.

It's a Survival/Crafting game.  I would like a game setup option where we could tone down the loot, bot from the world and from the trader.

Perhaps a system where you cannot find/buy tools/weapons/armor higher than you could craft?  Maybe with a range above that, that the player could select from.

I agree, looting and trading are, right not, way to much of a fast track to the best items, but would want it to be left to the folks that setup their own games, to be able to slow things down, if they choose to, or just leave them where they currently are.

 

[bdubyah]

Strictly speaking, the stun baton is only a T1 weapon if you call the pipe baton a T0. The sledge turret is theoretically a T2 weapon, but not really. There has long been a class for a Plasma Baton in the XML files, but it has never been implemented. This would actually be the T2 counterpart to the Stun Baton.

EDIT: The stun baton does about the same damage as a baseball bat.

According to TFP, the pipe baton is T0, the junk sledge is T1, the stun baton and junk turret are T2, and the drone is T3. The stun baton does the same damage per swing as the baseball bat, but has the shock DOT, so it makes sense it is technically T2 while the bat is T1.

If ever added, the plasma baton would likely be the T3 version.

 

[Riamus]

Perhaps a system where you cannot find/buy tools/weapons/armor higher than you could craft?  Maybe with a range above that, that the player could select from.

That isn't a good option.  Not everyone wants to craft, and not everyone wants to bother finding magazines.  Not to mention, in a group where people only learn specific magazines, only specific people could go buy or loot specific things.  That's just not a good option.  As I said in what you quoted, it's better to tie it to gamestage or lootstage as those are not connected to crafting and lets you buy whatever you want regardless of magazines while still limiting the stuff to items that make sense based on where you are in the game.

Remember that just because some people prefer crafting over looting or buying doesn't mean that they are the only people who matter.  Many people prefer looting to crafting, and many people just want the option to buy whatever they need.  There's nothing wrong with that, and there should be options available for those people.  Limiting this to a crafting-only game just alienates a large section of your players for no reason other than to make crafters feel better.

 

[WarMongerian]

That isn't a good option.  Not everyone wants to craft, and not everyone wants to bother finding magazines.  Not to mention, in a group where people only learn specific magazines, only specific people could go buy or loot specific things.  That's just not a good option.  As I said in what you quoted, it's better to tie it to gamestage or lootstage as those are not connected to crafting and lets you buy whatever you want regardless of magazines while still limiting the stuff to items that make sense based on where you are in the game.

Remember that just because some people prefer crafting over looting or buying doesn't mean that they are the only people who matter.  Many people prefer looting to crafting, and many people just want the option to buy whatever they need.  There's nothing wrong with that, and there should be options available for those people.  Limiting this to a crafting-only game just alienates a large section of your players for no reason other than to make crafters feel better.

I agree, looting and trading are, right now, way to much of a fast track to the best items, but would want it to be left to the folks that set-up their own games, to be able to slow things down, if they choose to, or just leave them where they currently are.

Ahhem. 

 

[Riamus]

Yes, having more game options for people is a plus.  But they can't add every possible option for game setup or the game settings screens will be insane.  I think an option for trader inventory level could potentially be worth adding to settings, though just a balance where the inventory matches where you are in the game is probably enough.  Loot is already tied to where you are.  Maybe it can be faster than crafting, though from my current games in 1.x, it's not really faster in most cases unless you're going to higher biomes early... and that's something that will be difficult to do after the weather/environment update.  We'll have to see how difficult that is when that update comes out to see if it really keeps people out of the wasteland on day 1.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Yes, having more game options for people is a plus.  But they can't add every possible option for game setup or the game settings screens will be insane.  I think an option for trader inventory level could potentially be worth adding to settings, though just a balance where the inventory matches where you are in the game is probably enough.  Loot is already tied to where you are.  Maybe it can be faster than crafting, though from my current games in 1.x, it's not really faster in most cases unless you're going to higher biomes early... and that's something that will be difficult to do after the weather/environment update.  We'll have to see how difficult that is when that update comes out to see if it really keeps people out of the wasteland on day 1.

It works very well with other games to have more options. ARK has an insane amount of options and many other survival games have way more than 7 days too. I think we can agree that in case of ARK it didn´t hurt the game at all. And you can do it in a way where you have standard presets for people who can´t be arsed to mess with settings plus a ton of advanced tabs to fine tune that you never have to touch if you don´t want to. 

It´s just a matter if TFP wants that or not. It won´t have a negative effect on the game. That is shown by other games already.  

E: Just checked, ARK was never under 20K average players since 2015 on steam. So yeah, TFP doesn´t have to fear that the game perfroms bad because people are overwhelmed.

 

[Vaeliorin]

I think we can agree that in case of ARK it didn´t hurt the game at all.

I don't know, it may have sold well, but ARK is probably the buggiest game I've ever played.  It's just the concept is so cool that people put up with it.

 

[Roland]

Doesn't the fact that you can choose to spend a point or not in Daring Adventurer already make it an option? I never spend a point on that one as I'm very happy with the current unperked balance. If someone feels that DA makes the trader way too OP then.....why did they take the perk? Someone who is that susceptible to the temptation of OP rewards is just going select 300% or 500% if it's an option on the top menu anyway.

I think the rewards and current stock is fine. Maybe a tiny bit of additional nerf tuning but nothing too major. The 1.0 nerf was pretty massive and if people are still finding they can afford to purchase the best stuff super early then they are probably making the part of the game where you can grind harvesting for sellable mats too much of a priority. That's optional too. Nobody MUST earn 10,000s of Dukes by day 2 or 3 to buy out the trader of any OP goods that he might have.

If someone loves getting rich and buying OP stuff early in the game then that's great. I'm glad the option is there for them and they probably aren't even here since they really enjoy the current trader balance.

 

[Arez]

One has to remember that they are not the only type of person playing this game. 

Most players are likely not good enough to do well with the stun baton in any way, or have trouble handling the game overall on Adventurer difficulty. 

Then there are players that like to jack the difficulty all the way up. 

These things have to be considered. If you nerf this and buff that you can end up making certain things useless and/or make other things too overwhelming. 

In a single player game, if a weapon isn't fun...then don't use it. If a perk makes things too easy...then don't put points into it. And if the game is overall too easy...turn up the difficulty. 

Though I do think we need more options. Traders on or off, headshots only, etc. How is there a zombie game with no headshots only option? These things seem basic to me to where we shouldn't have to rely on mods / manipulating the files to make it happen.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

I don't know, it may have sold well, but ARK is probably the buggiest game I've ever played.  It's just the concept is so cool that people put up with it.

Bugs have nothing to do with the options. But it shows that if you have a good game, it can even have bugs and get way more players than a game that has way less bugs. So more options won´t kill a good game. Not gonna happen. I don´t know where they got their "too many options are bad because people will get confused which will hurt the game" mindset from, but it´s wrong as proven by other games already. Unless the devs mess it up. If there is no easy way for the options aka having presets to choose from then it will ofc hurt the game.

So it´s either that TFP wants to give us more options for a more enjoyable game play and are able to do it properly or if they want to restrict us. Saying it will hurt the game simply isn´t true.

 

[Dead Smarty]

.... ARK has an insane amount of options and many other survival games have way more than 7 days too. I think we can agree that in case of ARK it didn´t hurt the game at all. ...

E: Just checked, ARK was never under 20K average players since 2015 on steam. So yeah, TFP doesn´t have to fear that the game perfroms bad because people are overwhelmed.

ARK is a tricky beast to reflect to. It might not have hurt the game but it also did not help. As it stands now it is too soon to connect final conclusions to the numbers since it is just a year ago they pulled the plug on official ASE and annual server rentals are comming to their renewal. Quit a few were dying out over the last year.
The  long term Steam graph does not reflect the average but peak numbers. The "never under 20K" sounds decent but keep in mind that it came down from ~40K to >60k (huge variation on every new map launch. The new UE5 version ASA is loosing players at a fairly high rate after each peak, coming from an initial nearly 100K to a sad <20K this summer, wich used to be a peak moment with the Summer Bash event.

So imho 7d2d is doing a far better job at delevering a constant experience and while being fairly new to this game I'm wondering why I never tried the alpha and wasted too much time on ARK. (Looks like it is still a sensitive thing, not?)

Tl;dr: ARK is a buggy mess, depending on private servers with server owners trying to make it playable but failing due to overcomplicated options while the studio has too much focus on new content instead of fixing their crap. Got a strong felling TFP are not making those same mistakes of overprommissing and underdelivering.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Dead Smarty how did they fail? Official servers got turned off more than a year ago and yet people still play. If ARK failed, 7 days failed even harder. ARK only sold 2 million copies more than 7 days and had always more players and is currently at around 20K every month even though there is a new game and no official servers anymore. 7 days will fall back to around 20K also, once there is no update for a few months. I am 90% sure that around spring 2025 between the two big updates for 7days both games will perform similar. And i  looked at the average numbers on steam charts. So yeah, never under 20k average.

Point still stands, Options won´t stop people from playing. Not as long as you can choose standard presets. GIving more options is not over promising. Not asking for new content. Just to give us more options with the existing content. Like Zombie spawn rate, removing traders, size of screamer hordes, size/frequency of wandering hordes, head shot only, number of land claims, rage mode etc. 

 

[Dead Smarty]

@Dead Smarty how did they fail? Official servers got turned off more than a year ago and yet people still play. If ARK failed, 7 days failed even harder. ARK only sold 2 million copies more than 7 days and had always more players and is currently at around 20K every month even though there is a new game and no official servers anymore. 7 days will fall back to around 20K also, once there is no update for a few months. I am 90% sure that around spring 2025 between the two big updates for 7days both games will perform similar. And i  looked at the average numbers on steam charts. So yeah, never under 20k average.

Point still stands, Options won´t stop people from playing. Not as long as you can choose standard presets. GIving more options is not over promising. Not asking for new content. Just to give us more options with the existing content. Like Zombie spawn rate, removing traders, size of screamer hordes, size/frequency of wandering hordes, head shot only, number of land claims, rage mode etc. 

The number of public servers for PS dropped by almost 90% in a year time, I did not check how these numbers did develop for PC but in  general they were following the same trends most of the time. The failure is in owners trying their best to make server performance acceptable but it just does not work. But as I said, it is too early to see how it will turn out, wait till the numbers of december are in to see how many servers and players are giving it another year.
Even in solo play the game suffers from performance and loading issues, with as funny sidenote that a PS4 pro is doing better than a PS5 due to verry persistent crashing at exit. None of the options is saving it. Pay attention, I never said the options are killing the game in any aspect but it for sure does not save it either.

You misunderstand me if you connect "more options" to "overpromissing", these are 2 complete different things. WC prommised an UE5 update for the new gen, changed the plan to a new game, promised new code to get rid of old bugs and a certain timeframe and a few more things. So yes, they sold a bunch of copies based on these expectations but a big chunk of the playerbase as well as the content creators is not happy. It might be a commercial succes but as a game it is a failure.

 

[Vaeliorin]

Bugs have nothing to do with the options. But it shows that if you have a good game, it can even have bugs and get way more players than a game that has way less bugs. So more options won´t kill a good game. Not gonna happen. I don´t know where they got their "too many options are bad because people will get confused which will hurt the game" mindset from, but it´s wrong as proven by other games already. Unless the devs mess it up. If there is no easy way for the options aka having presets to choose from then it will ofc hurt the game.

So it´s either that TFP wants to give us more options for a more enjoyable game play and are able to do it properly or if they want to restrict us. Saying it will hurt the game simply isn´t true.

I guess my point was that lots of options can lead to bugginess.  Implementing and testing all the possible permutations is a lot of work, and I'm not really sure how robust TFP's testing department is (not in terms of quality, but numbers.)

That said, I'd love all the options (the biggest reason I don't play on higher difficulties is I hate rage mode, for example.)  Just not sure how reasonable it is.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Vaeliorin https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/6422 i need that mod too, if i don´t play a overhaul mod i play with a 4x spawn mod and that amount of zombies plus rage mode is no fun on higher difficulties. Currently playing Darkness Falls, it has no rage mode either, a lot of other nasty things though.

@Dead Smarty At least those i listed already exist as mods. And they work fine. Zombie spawn rate is even a removed option from vanilla. The worst one to remove imo.

And yes even if they exist as mods, it would be way better to have them in the base game.