PC name change in the future?

The challenge for me these days is to determine what the general trend in the community is and play in completely the opposite way.

- Everyone power levelling, I am level 13 on the 25th day. (Nice gamestage though as not died yet.)

- Majority say you cannot defend a base without cheese - I am defending a trusty old 5x5 cobblestone base level with the ground, killing off horde and repairing base while they bang on my iron bars / cobblestone.

- People saying mining not possible in A17, I mine 6 nights a week.

- People saying you can't loot good stuff without killing a gazzilion Z's, most of my Z kills are from Horde night and I have nice stuff.

Game doesn't force you to do anything, you are only limited by your ability to overcome the changes in the game and keep playing the way you want.

 
You say that as if there could only be one goal: more levels.
Building a base to prepare for the horde can be a goal, exploring the map or POI, building a farm (for which you do not necessarily need a forge) to become self-sufficient and that's just off the top of my head.

You are the one setting the goals, not the game.
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There are definitely more goals and it's not that players will ignore those goals, but it is natural that most of their actions will be about leveling up because they will unlock content that will make the rest of these goals much easier. Getting higher tech tools will accelerate harvesting and building, getting vehicles will make exploration much easier and so on. Crafting skills are game-changing.

If xp sources are balanced I assume that it will not be worth for the player to focus on a single way of leveling (like they do now with zombies/traders), actions will be more determined by other factors like survival and players will view it much less as a "level grind" since there will not be compelled to use one specific way to level.

There are many great QOL/powerup perks, but I think it's crafting skills that make leveling "the goal".

 
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You say that as if there could only be one goal: more levels.
Building a base to prepare for the horde can be a goal, exploring the map or POI, building a farm (for which you do not necessarily need a forge) to become self-sufficient and that's just off the top of my head.

You are the one setting the goals, not the game.
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The issue is that for every "goal" that you've listed you need to level to make them manageable by perking in to things for the corresponding quality of life items. I'm not against the level locks, but let's not pretend that they weren't put there specifically to slow the player's progression down.

 
I'm not against the level locks, but let's not pretend that they weren't put there specifically to slow the player's progression down.
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Of course they were, but some form of gating to slow general progression down compared to the previous versions was absolutely necessary.

 
Of course they were, but some form of gating to slow general progression down compared to the previous versions was absolutely necessary.
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I agree, but when devs and mods tell you that you're leveling too quickly and you don't need the levels, ect. ect. It's just a bit, for lack of better phrasing, annoying. You most certainly do need to level to do anything in this game to achieve any goal, unless that goal is to see how little you can level. Again, I don't care about the level locks, I do care that they added them and then tell us that we don't need to level to have fun, yes we do. We are not all Roland, I would guess that most do not enjoy to stay around their spawn for weeks with stone tools lol.

 
I know i'm pushing a stick into an ants nest, but here we go...

Everyone moping about level gating and getting "cooking" based off "killing" as stupid i would show many different RPGs out there in the market. Surely you can gain XP by doing quests, some additional actions (like cooking, smelting, etc.), yet the most influential is killing mobs. They are abundant and will always be. You don't scream out in anger that after killing 100 rats/wolves/goblins/orcs and gaining a few levels you learn to "cook"/"smelt" better items. Sure, you could do that specific action and gain tons of XP from smelting (in A17e it's not well balanced yet, which is why i think it's a concern) and then do the opposite after levelling up - enhance fighting skills. Stop complaining, it's not like TFP invented the wheel...

On the matter of levelling - Yeah, i would love to have on day 5 level 10 or 15 instead of level 5 when doing a no-zombie-kill playthrough. Rebalancing is needed, but i didn't have much trouble with zombies. I DID have a horde spawn ways from my base to "magically" half of it follow me before sun set and hear constant growling throughout the night, but i managed to stay silent while upgrading my base. I also managed to loot a few POIs and making forged iron at a nearby trader (the one i got contains a working forge, workbench, chemo and cement mixer). I got a few weapons from various sources - dug out treasure, drop crate, various loot containers in POIs. Most importantly, i still find enjoyment in straying Zs from my base and exploring all around. I know where are the radiation zones to the west and south (i am very close and world is small), yet i never died. First bloodmoon soon and i will have lots of fun trying to figure out how to not kill any Zs then.

There will always be people who want to power-level to get better stats, increased skills for fighting, smelting, cooking, exploring, etc. I myself enjoy grinding mobs to get above the "it's hard to kill them" and just below "it's too easy to kill them" level. Everyone plays differently so some will power-level and some will enjoy the slow pace.

 
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I agree, but when devs and mods tell you that you're leveling too quickly and you don't need the levels, ect. ect. It's just a bit, for lack of better phrasing, annoying. You most certainly do need to level to do anything in this game to achieve any goal, unless that goal is to see how little you can level. Again, I don't care about the level locks, I do care that they added them and then tell us that we don't need to level to have fun, yes we do. We are not all Roland, I would guess that most do not enjoy to stay around their spawn for weeks with stone tools lol.
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It is - as I explained in my reply to Roland, it defies logic. And this comes from someone who enjoys the "primitive" stage more than the other stages. Always used to complain how the game lets you skip most of its content on week 1. The game itself creates the incentives, enforces penalties and paces the players' progression rate.

Also - GS scaling is a tool that keeps the game interesting/challenging and not too punishing - but it should never be enough of a reason for the player to pace himself because:

-It doesn't pace the player - it makes the player pace himself. There is a difference.

-It will even out the feeling of upgrade/progression which as Gazz posted elsewhere is rpg etc 101.

The meta GS scaling numbers must be something that players won't even think or be concerned about while playing for obvious (?) reasons.

I think it's relatively fine at the moment, borderline prevalent, but let's not use it as an argument, for the player having to pace himself, because of the above reasons.

 
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It is - as I explained in my reply to Roland, it defies logic. And this comes from someone who enjoys the "primitive" stage more than the other stages. Always used to complain how the game lets you skip most of its content on week 1. The game itself must create the incentives, enforce penalties and pace the players progression rate.
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Perhaps you mean some better visible incentives and penalties. I personally see many incentives on using primitive tools, the main ones of not being able to craft better ones until level this and that. You COULD have luck and find better tools/weapons, but still need materials to repair them (Forged Iron requires only a working forge, some iron and clay, no skills whatsoever, but Repair Kit requires a few different materials).

This will never be enough for everyone, just like not everyone likes onions or mushrooms. Even today some things annoy me in the game, but it's a challenge on itself and in A17Stable things will be better.

 
Perhaps you mean some better visible incentives and penalties. I personally see many incentives on using primitive tools, the main ones of not being able to craft better ones until level this and that. You COULD have luck and find better tools/weapons, but still need materials to repair them (Forged Iron requires only a working forge, some iron and clay, no skills whatsoever, but Repair Kit requires a few different materials).
This will never be enough for everyone, just like not everyone likes onions or mushrooms. Even today some things annoy me in the game, but it's a challenge on itself and in A17Stable things will be better.
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You may not have understood what I was talking about or it's I who failed to express myself well. Incentives and penalties are more or less fine at the moment, greatly improved compared to A16. My last sentence was spoken mostly for the general sense of things - I am not asking for more incentives/penalties or anything. My point was just to say that pacing is the game design's job, as is creating incentives, enforcing penalties etc

 
Perhaps you mean some better visible incentives and penalties. I personally see many incentives on using primitive tools, the main ones of not being able to craft better ones until level this and that. You COULD have luck and find better tools/weapons, but still need materials to repair them (Forged Iron requires only a working forge, some iron and clay, no skills whatsoever, but Repair Kit requires a few different materials).
This will never be enough for everyone, just like not everyone likes onions or mushrooms. Even today some things annoy me in the game, but it's a challenge on itself and in A17Stable things will be better.
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Your list of incetives on using primitive tools is one entry long.

'I cant craft better tools yet'

So my 'incentive' for using them (the thing makes you choose one over another) is that i litteraly have no other choice to make.

Having the option to loot to bypass such a restriction does way more harm than good, currently the way to aquire tools:

Loot them - available from level 1 (RNG)

Trader - also available from level 1 (RNG)

Craft them - grind XP to level 20

 
Your list of incetives on using primitive tools is one entry long.'I cant craft better tools yet'

So my 'incentive' for using them (the thing makes you choose one over another) is that i litteraly have no other choice to make.

Having the option to loot to bypass such a restriction does way more harm than good, currently the way to aquire tools:

Loot them - available from level 1 (RNG)

Trader - also available from level 1 (RNG)

Craft them - grind XP to level 20
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True, that's not an incentive, it's a gate (some kind of gate is needed). And loot lists and traders have to be eventually balanced.

 
True, that's not an incentive, it's a gate (some kind of gate is needed). And loot lists and traders have to be eventually balanced.
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One could argue that the way we gated crafting iron tools in the previous alpha was fine, crafting the tools is the only aquisition method that needs the core components (resources) of the tools, can loot iron tools without gatherin the material to make one.

Edit- to highlight some more:

It takes wood and iron per craft of the tool, and creating a fueling the relevant workstation to craft a thing, thats plenty of a gate. (Thats a forge, bellows, more resources)

To loot them? Go up to cars and press E till you get lucky

 
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One could argue that the way we gated crafting iron tools in the previous alpha was fine, crafting the tools is the only aquisition method that needs the core components (resources) of the tools, can loot iron tools without gatherin the material to make one.
Edit- to highlight some more:

It takes wood and iron per craft of the tool, and creating a fueling the relevant workstation to craft a thing, thats plenty of a gate. (Thats a forge, bellows, more resources)

To loot them? Go up to cars and press E till you get lucky
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Disagree - gating was far from enough in A16. One could start steel production on day 1. That's objectively a huge waste of content - no matter whether one enjoys "primitive" or "high stages".

As for ways to get "end-game" items in A17 on day 1 - they have to be balanced as I said earlier, by re-visiting loot lists and traders. Questing and "trader rep"/"shop upgrade" is a good way to unlock higher quality goods at traders.

 
Disagree - gating was far from enough in A16. One could start steel production on day 1. That's objectively a huge waste of content - no matter whether one enjoys "primitive" or "high stages".
As for ways to get "end-game" items in A17 on day 1 - they have to be balanced as I said earlier, by re-visiting loot lists and traders. Questing and "trader rep"/"shop upgrade" is a good way to unlock higher quality goods at traders.
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Steel production was behind a player level lock of 30 in alpha16, outside of cheating the exp or exploting the game, modifying XML or whatever else.

How exactly was this being done on day1?

 
Steel production was behind a player level lock of 30 in alpha16, outside of cheating the exp or exploting the game, modifying XML or whatever else.
How exactly was this being done on day1?
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Steel by day 1? too hard, by day 4 or 5, not hard. Cement by day 3 too easy. Unbreakable base for the first 3 or 4 horde nights, done.

Yay fun!

 
Steel production was behind a player level lock of 30 in alpha16, outside of cheating the exp or exploting the game, modifying XML or whatever else.
How exactly was this being done on day1?
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An exaggeration on my part since it did take some time to level (not including those periods of terribly balanced zombie/mining xp), it was the case with iron though and steel was still possible within the first week.

 
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Steel production was behind a player level lock of 30 in alpha16, outside of cheating the exp or exploting the game, modifying XML or whatever else.
How exactly was this being done on day1?
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As Zadwanaa points out, not necessarily on Day 1, but very early in A16. One time, I chose to build a big base (underground portion for uninterrupted work and aboveground portion for fighting), so I started by digging it out every night. Since we had a forge Day 1, I quickly improved my tools, and by the end of the first week I was level 60. We had steel shortly after the first horde night, and a concrete base for the first one.

All that to say: Progression was super easy.

 
Speed. That is the quibble. Nothing forces people to try and level to unlock things like the mini-bike.....on or before day 10. It's perfectly playable to unlock the mini-bike somewhere between days 40-60 if you like and if you aren't increasing your levels at top speed then it will take that long to reach the point where the mini-bike unlocks. The people who say that the game is forcing them to do things are those who want to get to high level and unlock everything in order to start playing because everything below the top of the progression ladder is seen as boring and tedious to them.
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Feel i need to adress this roland, part of the reason some people are feeling this way is that we have played this game multiple times across multiple alphas and done the 'grind' before, each alpha it gets longer and longer in one fashion or another.

This isnt only an issue for those partking in the alpha however: the replayability of the game is hurt tremendously when it is slowed down this much, even new players will become bored of the level up/progression at some point.

Asking someone to play 40-50 hours to unlock the minibike once is reasonable i guess (i personally find that way too excessive, somthing along the lines of 8-10 hours) but when they are going to have to go through that same 40-50 hour period every time they start a new game.... thatsba pretty hard sell.

Look at it this way, most gamers have between 3-5 hours of game time a day excluding those that do it professionally.

Even someone who plays an somewhat excessive ammount of 5 hours/day has to play for a full week before they can use the bike.

 
An exaggeration on my part since it did take some time to level (not including those periods of terribly balanced zombie/mining xp), it was the case with iron though and steel was still possible within the first week.
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Intresting, my experience was always getting steel tools roughly between the 7 and 14 day hordes, guess i was doing somthing wrong to be levling that much slower than everyone else.

Personally id call bull♥♥♥♥ on prdoucing steel on day 3 or 4, at least without major exploits or changing the day length.

 
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