PC name change in the future?

[Jedo]

This is all well and good, but the game has been in alpha for how many years now? Don't you think that at some point they need to stop changing directions and focus on finishing the product and shipping it?

Summons Inner Roland:

You will be glad to know that the DEV's have finalized their direction and working towards finishing and shipping the product. Hopefully the final product will align to your taste but if not you can explore the various mods that may cater to your specific playstyle. I like math.

More like:

I was being facetious when I said "change that completely abandoned." That's what it looked like to those who feel this way. Those who understand alpha-phase development know that it means that the devs were introducing more of what they intend for the game. I should have added emojis to make that clear.

 

[KeiraR]

Speed. That is the quibble. Nothing forces people to try and level to unlock things like the mini-bike.....on or before day 10. It's perfectly playable to unlock the mini-bike somewhere between days 40-60 if you like and if you aren't increasing your levels at top speed then it will take that long to reach the point where the mini-bike unlocks. The people who say that the game is forcing them to do things are those who want to get to high level and unlock everything in order to start playing because everything below the top of the progression ladder is seen as boring and tedious to them.

You still don't seem to get it.

It is not about the speed at which you get the items, it's the way you get them.

It used to be exiting to find the mini bike book, it is not any more because you need to have x points in x skill at x level.

I used to like it when you had to find the forge book, remember?

That is what it is about, the excitement of finding and unlocking things, not gain xp and spend your points wisely kids.

It's boring now.

Also bugs like keep hitting stuff after you release the mouse button, effectively blowing you up when a gas barrel spawns from a crate, doesn't really help it being much fun.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Yeah ofc no one forces you to get a minibike asap. But who the heck wants to walk everywhere all the time?

This has nothing to do with beeing on top of the progress ladder.

Telling people to level slowly on intention when EVERYTHING is levelgated is a pretty stupid answer.

Especially when you have quests that leave you no choice than to kill if you want the reward items

and a backpack that needs XP to get it to an acceptable size wich is again hidden behind minimum requirements.

Sure. Leveling too fast is the problem, not the game design. Mhmm, must be it.

 

[Roland]

Honest questions:
You don't find it boring and tedious to walk everywhere when you know that just a few days of zombie farming will get you transportation?

You don't find it boring and tedious to use stone tools when just a few days of zombie farming will get you iron tools, then steel?

I am honestly not making these questions as snide remarks or rhetorical. I genuinely would like to know because I personally think it's a tad boring myself and I assume others do too because it keeps getting brought up daily here.

Honest answers:

The early game is my absolute favorite part of the game. I usually stay within a one km area of the trader and (hopefully) a town. I will spend weeks methodically looting the town, getting a mine going, getting a garden going, and working on my base while I live in a sturdy POI. No rush and no it's not tedious enough to make me lose interest. Of course it is more tedious than using better tools with great perks. But that is what I like..feeling the difference. I like playing at primitive level for a good amount of time so that when I start spending points on perks I feel the difference. When I find that ergonomic grip and add it to my stone axe I see the difference. Honestly, I play mostly the same as how I did before there was ever any levels or xp or anything. Back then you played the game at the same level of tedious from start to finish.

Now, I'm not saying this as a snide remark but honestly sometimes I think that people on this forum emotionally and intellectually actually believe that everyone in the world likes what they like and dislikes what they dislike. The world is vaster than that.

 

[PoppaTot]

Honest answers:
The early game is my absolute favorite part of the game. I usually stay within a one km area of the trader and (hopefully) a town. I will spend weeks methodically looting the towns, getting a mine going, getting a garden going, and working on my base while I live in a sturdy POI. No rush and no it's not tedious enough to make me lose interest. Of course it is more tedious than using better tools with great perks. But that is what I like..feeling the difference. I like playing at primitive level for a good amount of time so that when I start spending points on perks I feel the difference. When I find that ergonomic grip and add it to my stone axe I see the difference. Honestly, I play mostly the same as how I did before there was ever any levels or xp or anything. Back then you played the game at the same level of tedious from start to finish.

Now, I'm not saying this as a snide remark but honestly sometimes I think that people on this forum emotionally and intellectually actually believe that everyone in the world likes what they like and dislikes what they dislike. The world is vaster than that.

Yeah, I can get that everyone plays differently. I'm more about exploration, finding that perfect spot to make a storage base, kill pit, and mine in the same general area that has multiple towns within a quick ride distance. I love the looting of POIs as well.

I totally understand what you mean about people thinking that everyone enjoys the EXACT same things as them. I have only been advocating for TFP to give us builders/miners some love back lol.

 

[Roland]

You still don't seem to get it.It is not about the speed at which you get the items, it's the way you get them.

Maybe for you. But after reading post after post since A11 where people are either complaining about things that slow them down, or trading strategies on the fastest method, or bragging about what level by which day... I'm going to have to go with I got it just fine. Speed is very important to a lot of people....and that is fine for them. It is how they enjoy the game. I think that the devs are going to relax the level gates somewhat and balance the xp income sources so that will help and if there still isn't enough power to power leveling for those folks they can mod things to "fix the game"

It used to be exiting to find the mini bike book, it is not any more because you need to have x points in x skill at x level.I used to like it when you had to find the forge book, remember?

That is what it is about, the excitement of finding and unlocking things, not gain xp and spend your points wisely kids.

It's boring now.

I do remember and it was fun. A different kind of fun and I have fond memories. This new method is also fun. I enjoy spending points for skills. I enjoy the level gates much less but honestly, with my playstyle it isn't a huge deal. I play my way within the new framework just great.

Also bugs like keep hitting stuff after you release the mouse button, effectively blowing you up when a gas barrel spawns from a crate, doesn't really help it being much fun.

Well let me be frank and say that this is your own fault for opting in. That definitely wasn't forced. I've been playing A17 with more bugs than this and way less polish for over a year now so excuse me if I have no patience or sympathy for people who can't keep it together for a few weeks while things get sorted. This is exactly why internal builds are not made public earlier than they are.

 

[Roland]

Yeah ofc no one forces you to get a minibike asap. But who the heck wants to walk everywhere all the time? This has nothing to do with beeing on top of the progress ladder.

Telling people to level slowly on intention when EVERYTHING is levelgated is a pretty stupid answer.

Especially when you have quests that leave you no choice than to kill if you want the reward items

and a backpack that needs XP to get it to an acceptable size wich is again hidden behind minimum requirements.

Sure. Leveling too fast is the problem, not the game design. Mhmm, must be it.

I don't level slowly on intention. I just don't play the game to level. I do what I do. Scavenge, craft, build, mine, garden, kill. I just play and the levels come when they come. If I have to use tools I found and repair them using iron smelted in a borrowed forge for awhile then that's what I do and when I can finally do it myself it's great.

 

[RestInPieces]

I think that people on this forum emotionally and intellectually actually believe that everyone in the world likes what they like and dislikes what they dislike. The world is vaster than that.

Yes, that's a common behavior. Common. Speaking about likes and dislikes - there is also a science based on common psychological patterns. The world is vast, but we are not that different.

Speed. That is the quibble. Nothing forces people to try and level to unlock things like the mini-bike.....on or before day 10...............The people who say that the game is forcing them to do things are those who want to get to high level and unlock everything in order to start playing because everything below the top of the progression ladder is seen as boring and tedious to them.

First of all let me say that the slower progression of A17 was one of the best changes for me (I just disagree with how it was done, not because it affects me much, but because "check the forums"), since I enjoy the earlier stages of the game as well - not to mention that it was a huge waste of game content to completely skip them or use them for half a day and building steel fortresses early on. But imho, you can't be more wrong with this kind of logic.

Here is a similar thing we discussed prior A17, which was about balancing xp sources (you never replied to the last post). I'll quote the relevant part:

"-There is character progression, which naturally becomes desirable because there is an incentive behind it.

-We have a strong incentive, if I may say, which includes unlocking content, gameplay QOL, becoming more powerful.

-We are presented with choices to achieve it. Each choice has a significantly different speed factor while leading to this result.

When, in general, one is incentivized to progress and is presented with various choices to achieve that progression, what is the most humanly sensible thing for that person to do?

The answer explains why more and more players perceive the game as a grindfest. It's not because they are completionists, it's not because they have to be pvp'ers, it's because it's the most logical thing to do, considering the above, established factors that the game design is responsible for. "

That was specifically about balancing zombie xp, with you expecting people not to particularly care about it and pace themselves, like you do. Doesn't that fall in the same category you mentioned in the first post I quoted? What I am asking is - since there are strong incentives towards a goal, is it logical to ask someone to pace himself towards that goal?

That's what the gating is for. Gating by levels, statistics, exploration, time, enemies and whatever else. That is the game design's job - not the player's job, to pace the player and that's how it works in almost every game.

Edit note: And before someone says "gating sux": unless you strictly play pure sandbox games (which is more or less like MC's creative mode), you enjoy gating. Not liking gating in the form it was implemented in A17 (rigid level locks) is a different matter.

 

[DatDamnDutchie]

You still don't seem to get it.It is not about the speed at which you get the items, it's the way you get them.

It used to be exiting to find the mini bike book, it is not any more because you need to have x points in x skill at x level.

I used to like it when you had to find the forge book, remember?

That is what it is about, the excitement of finding and unlocking things, not gain xp and spend your points wisely kids.

It's boring now.

Also bugs like keep hitting stuff after you release the mouse button, effectively blowing you up when a gas barrel spawns from a crate, doesn't really help it being much fun.

THIS. And the RWG going backwards for some odd reason. They managed to make it worse than A10

 

[Vomkat]

They should change the name of the game to "7 Days to Whine About an Experimental Alpha: Or, How I Opted In Voluntarily to an Unfinished Game and Proceeded to Cry Because It Wasn't Finished, Or: This Game is Too Hard and Too Easy and Everybody Knows It"

 

[PoppaTot]

They should change the name of the game to "7 Days to Whine About an Experimental Alpha: Or, How I Opted In Voluntarily to an Unfinished Game and Proceeded to Cry Because It Wasn't Finished, Or: This Game is Too Hard and Too Easy and Everybody Knows It"

Is it hard to see people with different opinions than yours from way up there on your pedestal? lmao

 

[Feycat]

Honestly I find I'm leveling really quickly. I'm still frigging annoyed I can't craft a basic catwalk without being level 30 or finding a table saw (seriously? It's like the most basic thing! RIP early treehouse )

My biggest gripe is still that stupid, punishing stamina bar (ugh early game is THE WORST) and that gathering materials is so hard and takes so long now. I have time to build a base, but I don't have a week to pant and groan my way through digging with a stone axe while zombies constantly aggro to me and dig up the landscape.

 

[Vomkat]

Is it hard to see people with different opinions than yours from way up there on your pedestal? lmao

I see an ocean of tears.

 

[suicidalhamster]

Honest answers:
The early game is my absolute favorite part of the game. I usually stay within a one km area of the trader and (hopefully) a town. I will spend weeks methodically looting the town, getting a mine going, getting a garden going, and working on my base while I live in a sturdy POI. No rush and no it's not tedious enough to make me lose interest. Of course it is more tedious than using better tools with great perks. But that is what I like..feeling the difference. I like playing at primitive level for a good amount of time so that when I start spending points on perks I feel the difference. When I find that ergonomic grip and add it to my stone axe I see the difference. Honestly, I play mostly the same as how I did before there was ever any levels or xp or anything. Back then you played the game at the same level of tedious from start to finish.

Now, I'm not saying this as a snide remark but honestly sometimes I think that people on this forum emotionally and intellectually actually believe that everyone in the world likes what they like and dislikes what they dislike. The world is vaster than that.

Emotionally and intellectually, the early game isn't my favorite part of the game. that said, i do however, immensely enjoy the early game for looting, exploring and base building. i get a lot of satisfaction going around and finding that perfect spot for a base and imagining what kind of fortress to build this time around. but there is a means to my end and i have a goal. when i cant make a simple catwalk for my base because i need to be level 30 (wow!!), i adjust with wood frames. level gate for a catwalk seems illogical but i adapt. when i cant find any iron tools, i am stuck using stone tools until level 20 or hope i can loot or find one at a trader. its not about speeding through the game, its about not having to spend days doing stuff i consider housekeeping. i have other priorities.

i do agree that in previous builds the early game was over too quick and there was a definite lack of sense of achievement as you progressed. i feel A17 has not only addressed this issue, but gone a hair too far. i dont mind being slowed in the early game, i think the game needs it as there are lots of people that enjoy that part. A16 had some gates (ie steel) and it worked. some things should be gated but it seems like everything is level gated now.

for the record, i prefer the mid/end game. thats where all the good stuff is, and yeah, i want to be able to try them and use them. some say its boring but i have always built 3-4 different bases in each world and like trying out different things. with specialization, there are different skills to try through multiple game saves. if i want to try 3 different specializations, that means i am grinding through 3 early games to get to the point where i can try what i want to try. for each alpha, i have never made more than 2 worlds. i make a world and i stick with it.

no emotion, no rant, no rage. just stating that my opinion of this experimental build is too heavily gated by levels. the devs will do as they will and the world will keep turning and once a17 goes stable, i will decide at that time if a17 provides me any entertainment value. if it does, i will play. if it doesnt, i will play something else and come back for a18. i have alot of hours playing 7 days to die, this game has paid for itself and doesnt owe me anything. its just that simple.

 

[TheMouldyCheese]

I can see both sides to the argument here.

I personally very much enjoyed the excitement of finding schematics in A16, like somebody mentioned previously. It made every game very different. Sometimes it would be days before you found that damn Minibike book, but when you finally found it, it'd make you so so happy, you would jump all the way home. It makes more sense to me that when you read about something, you learn about it.

I'm not such a big fan of learning primarily through skill points, as the A17 format seems to be based around. It doesn't feel natural. I go out and loot a couple of POI's, kill some zombies and level up. I can then put that skill point into cooking....like what?

Thats not to say I dislike the current system, I like the idea, just not the execution. I feel like many people are probably putting their first points into the same things. (Or maybe I'm wrong, please do share)

Schematics are really something I hugely miss in this game now. It'd make more sense to me this way....

- Cook egg

- Gain XP in Cooking skill

- Level up in cooking

- "You've unlocked a skill point for leveling up, spend that point on any cooking skill!"

- Use skill point to decrease cooking time for items

And you'd also have a couple of recipe books you can loot which teach you more complicated meals (Like...Meat Stew or something)

Something like that would use the skill/perk system we have currently, the 'schematic/recipe' system in A16 AND the old skill system in A16.

Hope that made sense, it sounds complicated when I explain it, but its pretty simple in my head.

As for the name change, I will assume thats a rhetorical question, so I will answer it.

I doubt there will be a name change, however I do tend to name my saved games in a similar vein to the game title. A lot of them are completely inappropriate to post here. But a clean family friendly example would be;

7BricksToLay

 

[Rockspider]

"7 days of wheezing" Springs to my mind

 

[Gazz]

That was specifically about balancing zombie xp, with you expecting people not to particularly care about it and pace themselves, like you do. Doesn't that fall in the same category you mentioned in the first post I quoted? What I am asking is - since there are strong incentives towards a goal, is it logical to ask someone to pace himself towards that goal?

You say that as if there could only be one goal: more levels.

Building a base to prepare for the horde can be a goal, exploring the map or POI, building a farm (for which you do not necessarily need a forge) to become self-sufficient and that's just off the top of my head.

You are the one setting the goals, not the game.

 

[suicidalhamster]

You say that as if there could only be one goal: more levels.
Building a base to prepare for the horde can be a goal, exploring the map or POI, building a farm (for which you do not necessarily need a forge) to become self-sufficient and that's just off the top of my head.

You are the one setting the goals, not the game.

ok, so for a map exploration goal, please move the gyrocopter to level gate 20 and the bicycle to level 100. problem solved!!

 

[KeiraR]

Well let me be frank and say that this is your own fault for opting in. That definitely wasn't forced. I've been playing A17 with more bugs than this and way less polish for over a year now so excuse me if I have no patience or sympathy for people who can't keep it together for a few weeks while things get sorted. This is exactly why internal builds are not made public earlier than they are.

This is why you come across as extremely arrogant.

Bugs happen, silly bugs show up silly developers.

There are people here that know exactly why bugs happen but you just wave it away as being in development, for five years with an alpha 17.

Yet old ones pop back up and new ones are introduced.

If you have some unity knowledge you know they are amateur mistakes.

So, why is there suddenly this bug that you keep hitting stuff when it used to be fine?

Still defending them blindly though, it's all our fault for opting in on something we waited a year for and all these bugs are something you then have to live with, sure Roland. lol

How can we expect some quality game after only five years, such nasty people these gamers/developers who see through all the bs.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

You say that as if there could only be one goal: more levels.
Building a base to prepare for the horde can be a goal, exploring the map or POI, building a farm (for which you do not necessarily need a forge) to become self-sufficient and that's just off the top of my head.

You are the one setting the goals, not the game.

Uh sure let´s just completly ignore things that got added to the game (traderquests, interesting POI´s full of sleepers) just so it is not about levels. Gosh.

Everything is levelgated and you guys tell people not to level too fast? We don´t. It happens by playing. And no i don´t want to play slow on purpose, i don´t wanna stay in a 1km circle around my start for weeks just for the sake of not leveling too fast. That´s boring.

@Roland well good for you. Still doesn´t make saying "Don´t level so fast" a good answer when everything is levelgated. It´s saying "Play like me and not like you want if you want a good time" So you do exactly what you blame others for. Seeing your opinion as the only valid one.

It´s about freedom. About different kind of gamers beeing attracted to this game. Wich totally got destroyed. Non FPS players loose interest with this alpha.