PC My issue(s) with Farm Plots

[Gothyc]

You have the right to love creating large farms. But if TFP allow it, it removes the survival aspect of the game. It's like saying "I like having all the weapons of every color and all the statistics, so it should be easier to get hold of weapons. " It may be good for a collector, but not so good for the gameplay.
With 20 farm plots, you are autonomous. Beyond that, it's only for the aesthetics of an industrial farm. Better to mod the game or use creative for that.

I agree that with the advent of perks to harvest more yield per plot, a balance was needed. I have, as stated in my earlier post, resigned to the fact that I'll never again be able to industrial scale farming to support my group.

But still, 36 plots by day 22 (120 minute days) going all in with perks and activity prioritization to maximize it? I consider 10 of each crop a minimum to be able to call it a farm at all. Otherwise it's just a little garden, and the game feature should be renamed as such. Gardening. I'm not interested in decorating my base with a farm plot in a corner, (there's potted plants for that). I want a meaningful system for creating food. We already have the food poisoning to balance out farming, so I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to have a small farm with 10 of each crop by the time you reach mid game.

 

[Chronosphere]

i dont understand why you gotta complain about a farm, first of all loot is increased and u swim in food anyways within day 3 again why do u bother complain about something we DONT actually are needing. anwyays. do you have to much time to complain about stuff you dont need just for the sake of it? i had 150 meat first day.

 

[Gothyc]

i dont understand why you gotta complain about a farm, first of all loot is increased and u swim in food anyways within day 3 again why do u bother complain about something we DONT actually are needing. anwyays. do you have to much time to complain about stuff you dont need just for the sake of it? i had 150 meat first day.

I imagine that's directed to all of us who advocated for slightly easier farming in this thread?

Well, how about we reverse your argument? Let's remove all food from the game, other than what you can get from farming. How many complaints do you think we'd get? Why not cater to more than one playstyle? In the big patch notes for A18, Fun Pimps mention identifying a few different playstyles that they want to cater to. Sure, there it's in regards to xp gain, but previously there's also been a balance in being able to sustain yourself through a multitude of playstyles. This is especially beneficial in multiplayer games.

To make a long story short, they know there are players who enjoy other aspects of the game than killing/looting 100% of the time, and they say they want to cater to the other playstyles as well. Personally, I am arguing from the assumption that they actually mean what they say.

 

[Hek Harris]

I really don't understand all that noise about farming. Playing as a farmer is only a matter of choice.

 

[Gothyc]

I really don't understand all that noise about farming. Playing as a farmer is only a matter of choice.

Ever heard that phrase "This game checks all my boxes"?

I really don't understand why a game containing an element you don't enjoy bothers you as long as it contains the elements you DO enjoy.

 

[OzHawkeye]

This isn't a question about industrial sized farming as it is about initial gatekeeping. People on my server are lvl 50-72 (and there around about 200 players that rotate in and out) and very few people have more than 3 farm plots. That said if industrial farming doesn't have a purpose as you say, then there shouldn't be mechanics in place to discourage building them. Some people just want them for a variety of reasons, and that should be enough to allow them if they don't break the game. That said, farming has never been an unfair advantage. It's something that has added immersion, because honestly any player with a decent gun or even a melee weapon never starves in 72d2. It's something the pimps have discussed at length and have decided that its really the threat of zombies, not starvation that is key. So allowing farms is not what breaks the survival aspect of the game. Instead, farming allows for variety of foods, recipes and even medical care which adds a more immersive and interesting approach to survival. Honestly, no one with the capacity to farm has ever suffered for lack of food--there are far too many other routes.

Level 72 and still only 3 farm plots? Really? What they been doin' for those 72 levels? I'm level 60 and have more than finished my farm, I've got 8 rows of 12 plots each and did absolutely nothing to go out of my way to collect the rotten flesh. Granted, I'm playing SP, but I'd be surprised if MP was that(!) much different????

 

[Jedo]

I think you are over estimating the intended survival state of the game. And you already do make choices about what you do with farming, such as harvesting, planting, hoeing etc. You cannot break it down to infinite granularity just to make a point because then we'd have to decide whether or not to tie our shoes or shoot a deer. As I mentioned in another comment, farming has never given an unfair advantage since food is basically everywhere on the map. What it does is it allows variety and a different approach to food that some people enjoy over hunting of looting buildings. I presume the difference between where these comments come from are the context of their games. In single player, grind as much as you want, but we have a server of people who despite being high levels cannot make any farm plots. The farming mechanic is essentially removed from the game because of a lack of rotten flesh on the map. If you want to gatekeep it, at least do it with something attainable, but this notion of making something annoying just because it shouldnt be easy is not the right way to approach it.

Two things:

1) Hyperbole will not be your friend in arguing your point. My argument does not come anywhere close to "infinite granularity," nor does the current farm plot mechanic.

2) This game is not and will not be balanced for massive servers. Speak to your server admin about respawning the sources of rotten flesh.

I agree that with the advent of perks to harvest more yield per plot, a balance was needed. I have, as stated in my earlier post, resigned to the fact that I'll never again be able to industrial scale farming to support my group.
But still, 36 plots by day 22 (120 minute days) going all in with perks and activity prioritization to maximize it? I consider 10 of each crop a minimum to be able to call it a farm at all. Otherwise it's just a little garden, and the game feature should be renamed as such. Gardening. I'm not interested in decorating my base with a farm plot in a corner, (there's potted plants for that). I want a meaningful system for creating food. We already have the food poisoning to balance out farming, so I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to have a small farm with 10 of each crop by the time you reach mid game.

Ummm, you are not at mid game. Also, I'm about as far along as you (day 40, 60 minute days) and I have close to 60 plots. Grace's place is great if you get a quest there (clear then re-clear). I also went on a cartography expedition and looted all of the corpses along the way. Do you have to work? Yeah, a bit. You have to do the same for cars. So? There's also the matter of luck. You don't always get the same breaks in every game. That's what helps keep it replayable.

 

[Maynard69]

Level 72 and still only 3 farm plots? Really? What they been doin' for those 72 levels? I'm level 60 and have more than finished my farm, I've got 8 rows of 12 plots each and did absolutely nothing to go out of my way to collect the rotten flesh. Granted, I'm playing SP, but I'd be surprised if MP was that(!) much different????

Well, I agree, except for the part about MP. Even when we had 20k maps, there were times that every city on the map was fully looted on servers I have played before. (in between loot respawn) I can easily see all bone piles being gone rather quick on well populated server with an 8k map.

I am aware that not more than 8 players are recommended tho. However, much higher is still possible.

 

[RipClaw]

Level 72 and still only 3 farm plots? Really? What they been doin' for those 72 levels? I'm level 60 and have more than finished my farm, I've got 8 rows of 12 plots each and did absolutely nothing to go out of my way to collect the rotten flesh. Granted, I'm playing SP, but I'd be surprised if MP was that(!) much different????

The primary sources of rotten meat are roadkills and zombie animals.

On a server with 200 players it is unlikely that there are many roadkills left on the roads. But there are still the zombie animals.

For 96 farm plots you need 960 rotten meat.

Without a point in Huntsman a vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 4 and a zombie bear 7 rotten meat. With level 5 in Huntsman the vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 9 and a zombie bear 16 rotten meat.

Even with 5 points in Huntsman, you'd have to kill 60 Zombie Bears or 106 Zombie Dog or 320 Vultures to get the amount you need.

The main problem on crowded servers are that the players share all the ressources. That includes the animals. Farming has always been a means of mitigating this problem, but that is no longer possible. If you run a big server you have to change the recipe for the farm plots.

 

[RipClaw]

Ummm, you are not at mid game. Also, I'm about as far along as you (day 40, 60 minute days) and I have close to 60 plots. Grace's place is great if you get a quest there (clear then re-clear).

If you have it on the map and you find it.

I also went on a cartography expedition and looted all of the corpses along the way. Do you have to work? Yeah, a bit. You have to do the same for cars. So? There's also the matter of luck. You don't always get the same breaks in every game. That's what helps keep it replayable.

This is the kind of grinding that is not very popular. In the discussion about not being able to harvest zombie corpses then there are many who say they didn't like having to harvest zombie corpses after the horde. Collecting the roadkills is the same.

 

[katarynna]

The primary sources of rotten meat are roadkills and zombie animals.
On a server with 200 players it is unlikely that there are many roadkills left on the roads. But there are still the zombie animals.

For 96 farm plots you need 960 rotten meat.

Without a point in Huntsman a vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 4 and a zombie bear 7 rotten meat. With level 5 in Huntsman the vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 9 and a zombie bear 16 rotten meat.

Even with 5 points in Huntsman, you'd have to kill 60 Zombie Bears or 106 Zombie Dog or 320 Vultures to get the amount you need.

The main problem on crowded servers are that the players share all the ressources. That includes the animals. Farming has always been a means of mitigating this problem, but that is no longer possible. If you run a big server you have to change the recipe for the farm plots.

The game only officially supports 8 players on a server and that is what they balance for.

I think it is entirely reasonable for people who run much larger servers to change recipes, increase dogs/vulture spawns, find a way to reset the roadkills, or find a way to add rotten flesh to the traders or more to loot containers.

But I don't think it is reasonable to expect tfp to balance the vanilla game which supports up to 8 people so that the servers with 200 are also ok.

 

[RipClaw]

The game only officially supports 8 players on a server and that is what they balance for.

The game seems to me to be balanced for single player.

I think it is entirely reasonable for people who run much larger servers to change recipes, increase dogs/vulture spawns, find a way to reset the roadkills, or find a way to add rotten flesh to the traders or more to loot containers.

It's nothing new that server operators modify the game.

When you couldn't make oil yourself there were recipes on many servers to make oil. On some servers you can execute a command to spawn an animal in the area so you can hunt something at all.

But I don't think it is reasonable to expect tfp to balance the vanilla game which supports up to 8 people so that the servers with 200 are also ok.

I don't expect the Fun Pimps to balance the game for these servers. It was just the answer to OzHawkeye's question if multiplayer is really that different from single player.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Totally killed farming for me. There is such a huge amount of canned food, i don´t see why i should go through the hassle of getting enough rotten meat. Also at the point i can make farm plots i have iron guts at a level where i can eat my self cooked meat without danger.

 

[OzHawkeye]

The primary sources of rotten meat are roadkills and zombie animals.
On a server with 200 players it is unlikely that there are many roadkills left on the roads. But there are still the zombie animals.

For 96 farm plots you need 960 rotten meat.

Without a point in Huntsman a vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 4 and a zombie bear 7 rotten meat. With level 5 in Huntsman the vulture gives 3, a zombie dog 9 and a zombie bear 16 rotten meat.

Even with 5 points in Huntsman, you'd have to kill 60 Zombie Bears or 106 Zombie Dog or 320 Vultures to get the amount you need.

The main problem on crowded servers are that the players share all the ressources. That includes the animals. Farming has always been a means of mitigating this problem, but that is no longer possible. If you run a big server you have to change the recipe for the farm plots.

Yeah, well, given that 200 players is 192 above the officially supported limit, then yeah, modding the recipe to reduce the rotting flesh needed for farm plots would seem to be the way to go for sure.

Such a server (and I'm not even meaning 200 concurrent players) would run into many run into many issues around resources that could only be solved through modding, since the game cannot possibly be balanced around such extremes.

 

[The-Walking-Dad]

I have twelve farm plots. Three potatoes, three corn, three mushrooms (thank you RNG!) and three aloe vera. I love farming, this isn't enough, but I'm starting to feel the benefits of my efforts on day twenty-two.

 

[Roland]

I use a machete and 2 ranks of Huntsman. Not noticing much a difference in rotten meat yield.
We used to be able to dig up POI farm plots, but it was removed as it was "too OP".

Absolutely no need for quotation marks there.

Also, people, altering a recipe is the easiest modding there is. Would take less than 5 minutes to rebalance rotten flesh to your liking.

 

[dex314]

Hi Roland, yea it's awesome that the game is as moddable as it is, but we always strive to give feedback to optimize the vanilla game as much as possible to limit necessary modding and to improve the experience for players without modding options. Eventually if this doesn't change, of course we'll just mod the rotten flesh in the farm plot recipe, but it would be nice for our opinions to be heard by the pimps before we have go to that route. Also, impressed you're still moderating this crazy forum even after all these years. Please don't get an ulcer

 

[PPanda0421]

Absolutely no need for quotation marks there.
Also, people, altering a recipe is the easiest modding there is. Would take less than 5 minutes to rebalance rotten flesh to your liking.

I think they should kept the ability to dig up POI farm plots in the game. However, make it a very small chance that you can actually pick it up when you dig. Perhaps increase the chance when you put points into a perk like say 'Living off the Land.' The ability to dig up the farm plot fits the game. If you find something you can 'extract' it like digging an iron ore, punching an goldenrod flower or looting a container. Else if you cannot find something you gather the resources and make it yourself eg. craft the farm plot.

 

[Jedo]

...we always strive to give feedback to optimize the vanilla game as much as possible to limit necessary modding and to improve the experience for players without modding options.

Should TFP listen to balance feedback of people who play outside of the stated bounds of the game (SP or 8-player MP)? Wouldn't that be like them following up on bug reports from people who are using mods or otherwise have not done fresh installs?

 

[Jihh]

The game seems to me to be balanced for single player.

Not to my experiences. In my single player game I always had more plots than seeds without farming rotten meat. I also have an overabundance of everything else (of course some things I have to farm on purpose). I also always play without loot respawn (and sometimes reduced loot on top of it). With quests added in A17 I have unwanted loot respawn making it even easier.

On my multiplayer server (~15 player, some more active some less) on a 4kx4k map, we still have plenty of everything thanks to quests. We are one community, but seperate 2-3 man bases. Our garden was ready quite fast and we still have hundreds of rotten meat in our storage.

Now the funny thing is: We already gifted tons of rotten meat to the other groups (and didn't touch their road kills), because they had too few. The difference between our group and their groups is efficiency and speed. They waste tons of time, they do activities that gives them stuff they don't even need at that point. I'd say we get like 5-10 times the loot they do a day. When they built their first bicycles we were already driving with two 4x4 from poi to poi and cleared them. Thanks to quests we don't even need to stop, the distances just get longer.

There is plenty of loot, you just need to get it and waste as little time as possible. Killing all birds you come across helps with rotten meat a lot. On most days I kill 10+ vultures. Since we don't aim for ridiculous overproducing of food (I mean we eat canned food anyway, but I like to still play the game as if gardening would be needed), but just like 10% more than we need, we don't need hundreds of farming plots.

So in my experience it's not that the game is balanced on single players, but that many players just waste tons of time and resources and tend to overestimate their needs by a lot. Of course I too had big gardens in the past, but they aren't needed and now that they need resources, I just stick to my needs.