More variability in Zed HP.

FramFramson

FramFramson

Well-known member
So, whatever difficulty you're playing on sets zombie HP at X, right? With of course the occasional (X)2, both zeds fixed as such (sollies, lumberjacks, tourists, etc.), and the "surprise" fattened-up regular zeds who have double HP (including the occasional double-fatty).

Why are the HP's always so perfectly fixed and reliable? Why not randomly spawn them with a range anywhere between (X)0.75 and (X)2 for regular zeds and anywhere from (X)1.5 to (X)2.5 for the fatties (3x might be a bit much)? I understand DF does this, but it seems like something the regular game should have all along?

Right now the fixed HPs make combat so calculated and banal. Even with the occasional "surprise" double, as soon as they don't go down in X hits, you immediately know they'll go down in double or double-plus-one that.

Makes the existing doubles feel like a crude stopgap for a proper dynamic system.

 
There are two ways to implement it, the first is to use the random parameter, in attributes, the other is clones that still use a static 

value per parameter but does not have the back end choice routine. The best thought for me is that the clones don't need any extra 

coding to support it.

I've been doing that for a long time. I clone in my entities classes. For all of my non-special entities. It does give a variation. I just 

wish I had a way to compare, the non-visual or calculation effects. But from an interactivity point it keeps me happy. I called them

poptops because it stemmed from me wanting to focus on variable decaps, and expanded to variable strengths and weaknesses.

I have never looked at 7dtd as a full rollout game like Dark Souls. I have always seen it as a just a semi interactive template, like Garry's 

Mod for instance. It has many, not all of the basic tools necessary to do the things I want. In that format, or mode of thinking, it inspires

me to mix unlike rules to see an alternate possibility. For me if they had included too much, I would have probably played once or twice

and shelved it. As long as I have an option or freedom of choice, I feel comfortable with "some" of the vanilla configurations. Remove

options no mater what the reason is and it starts to suck.  Still I agree with you on your post, because not everyone likes to mod.

 
Variety in HP doesn't really matter much.  Sure, you don't know how many hits it'll take to kill someone, but it's that going to keep you from killing it?  A bullet sponge won't be any harder to kill.  It just takes an extra hit or two.  There are other things that can be variable that can affect combat much more.  Damage and speed are two, as well as different attacks for the same zombie. The only time bullet sponge make any difference is is you are surrounded by a lot of them versus ones with fewer HP.

Don't count your attacks and you won't even notice that they are the same.

 
Riamus said:
Variety in HP doesn't really matter much.
Click to expand...
That I agree with. The changes I made were elsewhere, as an example, Imagine you have a flock of birds overhead. Presently you know there

is an attack coming, so it becomes expected. But imagine a flock of birds, flying at different rates, and start their attack from  different distances,

one is extremely prone to fire, the next will keep chasing you while on fire, and a third, likes to snipe you like a catbird. Then it becomes an

interactive environment. For me it's not about trying to make it hard, I just wanted a varying interactive environment.

 
Riamus said:
Variety in HP doesn't really matter much.  Sure, you don't know how many hits it'll take to kill someone, but it's that going to keep you from killing it?  A bullet sponge won't be any harder to kill.  It just takes an extra hit or two.  There are other things that can be variable that can affect combat much more.  Damage and speed are two, as well as different attacks for the same zombie. The only time bullet sponge make any difference is is you are surrounded by a lot of them versus ones with fewer HP.

Don't count your attacks and you won't even notice that they are the same.
Click to expand...


I mean, it's not hard when it's always 2-4. But turning them into sponges being no answer is why I feel like the "difficulty" setting doesn't add much difficulty at all.

 
FramFramson said:
I mean, it's not hard when it's always 2-4. But turning them into sponges being no answer is why I feel like the "difficulty" setting doesn't add much difficulty at all.
Click to expand...
I agree. That is why I don't think variable HP really matters.  I think the difficulty settings could use options other than more HP (or variable) to really make the difficulty setting have an effect for more than large encounters.

 
Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment might be a direction.
Have the entities in your world based on your progression level, If you are new and progression is slow
the world grows up with you, if fast progression is your play then the world grows up with you. If multiple
players, then it is averaged for the group, and the difficulty setting would be a percentage slider that 
would add a variable percentage multiplier 0 to 100 to regulate per Group play. So if all are comfortable
and have played enough, set at 100 percent means no down grade, if 1 vet an 4 newer players, set at 
25% would reduce world progression, to a manageable level but still provide a challenge.
 
The mechanic is already in place, although it may need some fine tuning,  Horde Night.
 
Instead of just the entities, it could be the world




 
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I think this would be great 

But there should be ways too tell if they are stronger. Maybe if one's skin in greenish tone are weaker but give you sickness 

Blood red skin or a darker color with red dots and boils. 

But I would love this feature it would make combat more tense 

 
But look at streams, and read posts. Why would you want to know what each of their strengths

and weaknesses are. That would follow the same pattern as many other things in the game now.

After 1 encounter you mentally record their attributes and their function becomes useless.  Then

thinking about it what post usually follows? Above is only an excerpt of that pimp dream. You

can tell if they are stronger, if they don't die right away. So it would prompt you to cycle through

your weapons and offenses to actually dispatch the entity. Giving all of them a visual indicator

for their ability, kind of takes away the excitement of not knowing.

 
4sheetzngeegles said:
But look at streams, and read posts. Why would you want to know what each of their strengths

and weaknesses are. That would follow the same pattern as many other things in the game now.

After 1 encounter you mentally record their attributes and their function becomes useless.  Then

thinking about it what post usually follows? Above is only an excerpt of that pimp dream. You

can tell if they are stronger, if they don't die right away. So it would prompt you to cycle through

your weapons and offenses to actually dispatch the entity. Giving all of them a visual indicator

for their ability, kind of takes away the excitement of not knowing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, if the idea is to make them unpredictable, then adding a visual indicator that makes them predictable doesn't make sense.

 
Riamus said:
Yeah, if the idea is to make them unpredictable, then adding a visual indicator that makes them predictable doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
Well my though is more like Varrants 

Random and varied health still but maybe some with a few tricks 

Like ones that are weaker but deal more damage and are faster

He'll why not stop at random health 

Changing walking styles/speeds would also spice things up 

Imagine a fat zombie moving as fast as zombie Steve 

 
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