PC More trader nerfs in B238

(All this with the caveat that we have to try it out to make a final verdict)
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Now I get it. You're focusing on the MP while I am on the SP experience. You have a group which makes your experience X times faster, X being the amount of players. I don't have that luxury nor do I want it.

I like the idea of traders for SP as they actually provide somewhere to scrap the things I get that don't need and "exchange" them for useful things I need. I wouldn't know for MP.

 
Just testing out B238 trader. I wanted to see if our coffee and beer business from our last game would work. Before B231 we had planted 2 garbage bins (28 seeds each) of coffee and 1 of hops and every few days I would run stacks of both to top up each traders demand, making 900+ Dukes per stack, 4-5k Dukes per run. Decent coin, but felt the effort put in was pretty balanced. I see now that the prices are much lower off the bat 9 Dukes per coffee for example, but when I perked Better Bargain the increase looked more like 100% than 10%. The second point brought coffee to 27 dukes per, 300%. Gonna continue with my same character build of focused Salvage Ops/Better Barter/Hide in Shadows as a professional scrapper because the changes still seem viable once invested in at least 2-3 perks.
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If someone puts in the work of setting up that big of a farm, he should yield more than just 900 dukes per stack!

You might not think it too few, but it definatly is! Okay not definatly, but I very strongly feel that hard work SHOULD reward you with good coin and goods! Its not an exploit, its hard work! There is a gradiant (500 cement blocks are easy to do, gave a lot of coin in A16, which wasn'T right! But if I farm trees for hours on end with a chainsaw (time, fuel, repair kits) , it SHOULD give you good coin. But currently you only get 1 coin for 50. I wasn't at the endgame, but I feel that is too few.

But that is what I feel! Work should be rewarded in some sense! But if I can't buy something good after doing something for hours, its not fun at all!

 
Now I get it. You're focusing on the MP while I am on the SP experience. You have a group which makes your experience X times faster, X being the amount of players. I don't have that luxury nor do I want it.
I like the idea of traders for SP as they actually provide somewhere to scrap the things I get that don't need and "exchange" them for useful things I need. I wouldn't know for MP.
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Just as an example. I was also playing SP and pretty much had the same experience, building near the trader made everything MUCH easier. Quests and trader provided me with all iron tools. The only difference being that SP is naturally harder.

 
Only bc posts like his. You make it sound like he shouldnt complain bc its still WiP. It's the other way around, it's a WiP bc players explain their concerns.
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Yes they are WiP, which is why im giving my feedback 😁
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I'm sorry: What part of "quests are a joke; I don't know why people would waste their time" helps improve the WiP? For that matter, I'm not even sure it acknowledges that they are a WiP. Don't try to sell me this ♥♥♥♥. Turds have been removed and trading has been nerfed, so I ain't buying.

Also, it's a WiP because TFP has said that they aren't done, that this is just phase 1 of quests. Kalarro, you are the one who has it backwards.

 
Now I get it. You're focusing on the MP while I am on the SP experience. You have a group which makes your experience X times faster, X being the amount of players. I don't have that luxury nor do I want it.
I like the idea of traders for SP as they actually provide somewhere to scrap the things I get that don't need and "exchange" them for useful things I need. I wouldn't know for MP.
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Have you perked into trading or are you bemoaning the purchasing prowess of someone who has no trading skills?

Just testing out B238 trader. I wanted to see if our coffee and beer business from our last game would work. Before B231 we had planted 2 garbage bins (28 seeds each) of coffee and 1 of hops and every few days I would run stacks of both to top up each traders demand, making 900+ Dukes per stack, 4-5k Dukes per run. Decent coin, but felt the effort put in was pretty balanced. I see now that the prices are much lower off the bat 9 Dukes per coffee for example, but when I perked Better Bargain the increase looked more like 100% than 10%. The second point brought coffee to 27 dukes per, 300%. Gonna continue with my same character build of focused Salvage Ops/Better Barter/Hide in Shadows as a professional scrapper because the changes still seem viable once invested in at least 2-3 perks.
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This right here sounds right. If the trader prices are important to you then spend points in that area to become a master trader yourself.

 
Have you perked into trading or are you bemoaning the purchasing prowess of someone who has no trading skills?
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Well, 'aight, check this out, dawg. First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect. Watch your mouth and help me with the sale.

On a serious note, of course, but you have to understand that in SP we need to be everything. Spreading points around and not going for specific perks are just a way to make the game way harder for yourself.

Little story, one time I spent a point in barter and ran to the trader to sell all my stuff as there was an auger there and I wanted that ♥♥♥♥. Got there, sold everything just to realize he had restocked and the auger was gone. Point wasted and no auger. I'm not complaining, but isn't it anti-intuitive to hold on to points as you might need them later?

Bonus points if you get the reference...

 
Yet more nerfs on the trader. He now pays less for goods and all tiers of better barter have been nerfed by 5% on all tiers.
So now buying things will take much longer? Really hope they adjusted what quests give as rewards to make up for these nerfs and they fixed the crazy distance on tier 1 quests. Because I see no point in running on foot 1.5km or more for a quest that barely gives 1k exp and 400 dukes.
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It was really OP dude. If you bought the perks you would know. If you advance in the quest tiers the loot gets really good. Wait until you have a bicycle to start working for the traders.

 
It was really OP dude. If you bought the perks you would know. If you advance in the quest tiers the loot gets really good. Wait until you have a bicycle to start working for the traders.
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I will say that I think I only had Barter 1 and found out that a perfect lvl 5 AK sold for like 13k dukes. I made 3 of them because of the bug that made the mod slots RNG. Figured I would just sell the ones that were less slots. I was like "Holy ****" when he offered me 13k for it....

 
Yeah, just got Bargaining level 3 and it feels like it is really paying off. This is what I am enjoying most as A17 progresses, if you want to succeed at something you better invest points, and deal with the consequences elsewhere. It makes sense to me too, as these narsty merchants would have to be a Pawn Stars/Thunderdome-crossbred cut-throats fleecing survivors without the guile to know better.

I did enjoy the premodded gear at the traders, and it was cool to try out new mods, but IMO that needs some balancing as I was buying Padded Armor with three mods (green dye, fittings, plate) for the same cost as 1 mod alone.

I still do not find my coffee example, even with reduced profit, to have been nerfed. It was a sustainable income, with the added bonus that once invested in would never be lost, only grow. Plus the added benefit having enough caffeine in game to match my RL consumption while playing.

 
Let's face is, quests are a joke. I don;t know why people would waste there time on them, unless they are really close.
Trader nerf sucks. Early game forget about buying anything but food at this point. I think the higher end stuff is more for mid to late game though. Don't think they want you buying that awesome pick with 3 mods in it on day 3. I think the trader nerf should be addressed with a massive duke buff on quests. They also need a really MASSIVE xp buff.
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Modded items getting into the trader loot was kind of a bug so we removed it. We will add it back when we have some means of controlling it. I'm buffing the xp and dukes right now, it is crap. The hard thing to do is players can craft guns so we can't have them getting rich selling pink guns. That is part of the reason I increased the parts requirements for guns so people can't get super rich crafting.

 
I'm sorry: What part of "quests are a joke; I don't know why people would waste their time" helps improve the WiP? For that matter, I'm not even sure it acknowledges that they are a WiP. Don't try to sell me this ♥♥♥♥. Turds have been removed and trading has been nerfed, so I ain't buying.
Also, it's a WiP because TFP has said that they aren't done, that this is just phase 1 of quests. Kalarro, you are the one who has it backwards.
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I have explained elsewhere and many times. Nice try though.

- - - Updated - - -

Modded items getting into the trader loot was kind of a bug so we removed it. We will add it back when we have some means of controlling it. I'm buffing the xp and dukes right now, it is crap. The hard thing to do is players can craft guns so we can't have them getting rich selling pink guns. That is part of the reason I increased the parts requirements for guns so people can't get super rich crafting.
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That makes sense. Even though guns dont sell for a lot we still get to scrap them for valuable mechanical parts. And they all come with ammo. Please dont nerf gun drops.

 
Modded items getting into the trader loot was kind of a bug so we removed it. We will add it back when we have some means of controlling it. I'm buffing the xp and dukes right now, it is crap. The hard thing to do is players can craft guns so we can't have them getting rich selling pink guns. That is part of the reason I increased the parts requirements for guns so people can't get super rich crafting.
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How are we supposed to earn dukes then, if not crafting.

 
Well I LIKE Traders and I like that TFP are adjusting them and testing and looking for a balance.

That's kind of how you balance things... right?

Economies are the most difficult thing to deal with in games [according to Time/Life Magazine].

Jagex, the company who makes Runescape, won some major award for being the first to create a Stable Virtual Economy.

Apparently it was a big deal.

What the Time/Life article talked about is how incredibly difficult is can be to balance a virtual economy.

So.... here's TFP trying to make an economy in 7DTD and people are complaining they don't like the process.

There's NO easy way to do this.

I you're so wise that you know more than the whole world, please, by all means share your wisdom.

Every developer on the planet is struggling to make these economies work.

Your knowledge would end a lot of struggling.

Sorry but I'm not going to agree with these comments putting down TFP for their efforts.

This is a task that's going to rival anything they will face while making 7DTD.

- I like Traders

- I like that TFP are testing them to find a good balance

- I like watching the development process

- I like Economies in game, they are fascinating

- I don't like people chastising something I feel they don't really understand

You can disagree and I'm fine with that.

 
There are ways. But the days of making half a mil dukes early game are over.
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At this point I wouldn't mind the addition of Rare Relics that the trader will buy. The don't scrap to anything valuable, but if you get them to a trader they'll pay good coin for it. 1-2k dukes maybe?

Diversification of how to get dukes and not having just "the main way" of getting them, is good.

 
Modded items getting into the trader loot was kind of a bug so we removed it. We will add it back when we have some means of controlling it. I'm buffing the xp and dukes right now, it is crap. The hard thing to do is players can craft guns so we can't have them getting rich selling pink guns. That is part of the reason I increased the parts requirements for guns so people can't get super rich crafting.
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is it possible to set a max value trader pay for Weapons and tools ?

 
How are we supposed to earn dukes then, if not crafting.
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I increased quest rewards x5 on xp and x3 on the duke reward (b241) so there is that. There is always mining for gold and silver which is still pretty valuable. My plan is to play after stable for quite some time and keep patching balance changes. Like you should be able to make a living being a miner or blacksmith, or lumberjack, etc.

 
At this point I wouldn't mind the addition of Rare Relics that the trader will buy. The don't scrap to anything valuable, but if you get them to a trader they'll pay good coin for it. 1-2k dukes maybe?
Diversification of how to get dukes and not having just "the main way" of getting them, is good.
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I was thinking this too. I could just make some rare trophy you can scrap... or sell for like 1200 dukes. A pain to carry, but hey I never use those perk books gazz made and they only sell for 100 dukes, so I carry them around.

 
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