PC More trader nerfs in B238

In the case of traders they’ve been too generous and people have been complaining about their economy since A15. I think 2+ years to consider what to do about the feedback is safe to not be called reactionary.

Now....could they have possibly gone too far and overdone it? I think we all know their patterns by now :)

But they are usually good about adjusting extreme changes back as well. My suggestion for you Kage is to go visit Prime in his stream and talk to him since he is the lead designer of quests... ;)

 
There were so many posts about abusing the traders and exploiting the economy and so TFP closed that loophole and now People complain that the traders can’t be abused.
In this very thread there have been posts complaining that there are so many guns and they should be reduced in loot. Wanna guess what the next angry threads will be about if TFP does that....?
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Because people who want that dont play on lower droprates.

I as heavy trader abuser are not against some balancing, even if my AK selling was very very nice

 
In the case of traders they’ve been too generous and people have been complaining about their economy since A15. I think 2+ years to consider what to do about the feedback is safe to not be called reactionary.
Now....could they have possibly gone too far and overdone it? I think we all know their patterns by now :)

But they are usually good about adjusting extreme changes back as well. My suggestion for you Kage is to go visit Prime in his stream and talk to him since he is the lead designer of quests... ;)
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So a new build (=better traders) before Christmas?

 
In the case of traders they’ve been too generous and people have been complaining about their economy since A15. I think 2+ years to consider what to do about the feedback is safe to not be called reactionary.
Now....could they have possibly gone too far and overdone it? I think we all know their patterns by now :)

But they are usually good about adjusting extreme changes back as well. My suggestion for you Kage is to go visit Prime in his stream and talk to him since he is the lead designer of quests... ;)
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So now I know who to rage at.....um I mean talk to lol

Quests were my number 1 loved thing in alpha 17 day 1. Now? They are basicly a non factor.

 
“Stop changing systems and pick one”

“Change more slowly!”

“The game is currently unplayable”

Do you know who will never ever complain about this stuff? People who buy the final version. They’ll never know the zigs and zags we saw. I’m not talking about not giving feedback about the game. I’m talking about an intolerance for getting this chance to step behind the curtain.

I have played a lot of early access games that are early access in name only. They aren’t REALLY going through the raw development process in view of their customers. They just have an already pretty much finalized game they are updating and when their game “goes gold” there really is no difference. The updates after 1.0 feel the same as the ones before when the game was supposedly still being designed.

7 Days development is the real deal. They were being honest when they said their game is a work in progress. They also take experimental seriously.

If you want the equivalent of DLC updates to an already finished game then put it away until the notification comes that it’s done. Otherwise buckle up and enjoy the ride for what it is. Every update is amazing to me how the changes affect the overall game. They aren’t all good but the process is definitely interesting to participate in if you have the stomach for it.

 
There were so many posts about abusing the traders and exploiting the economy and so TFP closed that loophole and now People complain that the traders can’t be abused.
In this very thread there have been posts complaining that there are so many guns and they should be reduced in loot. Wanna guess what the next angry threads will be about if TFP does that....?
Click to expand...
Everybody chill and start understanding what they are doing...

This is Stockholm syndrome treatment.

You ask for something, they go with their pendulum the complete opposite way, you pout and moan.

They say, "maybe you're right", change it to where they KNEW and we ALL expected it should have been.

Some, not all, start celebrating the TFP as the new saviors when it's obviously what they wanted since the beginning.

Rinse and repeat...

Level gating - check

Stamina - check

food - check

economy - changes coming soon

guns - next on the list (prepare to find just a handgun in day 4)

 
There were so many posts about abusing the traders and exploiting the economy and so TFP closed that loophole and now People complain that the traders can’t be abused.
In this very thread there have been posts complaining that there are so many guns and they should be reduced in loot. Wanna guess what the next angry threads will be about if TFP does that....?
Click to expand...
Not complaining about that they can't be abused, only that it's at the point they are not worth using, at

least not early game. Maybe when higher up in levels, and can produce something that sells at a decent

price, unless they nerfed every sellable item.

Guns.. I think those who complain about those are the same that prefer feather based weaponry. How it

is possible to stuff AK47's, shotguns and hunting rifle in a small desk safe i do not know, but logic is kinda

weird in 7d2d.

I don't mind guns beeing numerous, since it is basicly free ammo, which in turn makes gun as viable as

feather based weaponry. I do like their current balance too. However, since they are useful, i expect

them to be the target of another nerf.

 
However, since they are useful, i expect them to be the target of another nerf.
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Anything complained about on the forums is getting nerfed hard, then balanced to be worse (my opinion) than it started.

So I propose below lol.

Walking from starting spawn is OP, please nerf. Preferred outcome would be start game with a broken leg, bleeding, and infection. /sarcasm

 
Walking from starting spawn is OP, please nerf. Preferred outcome would be start game with a broken leg, bleeding, and infection. /sarcasm
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They nerfed stamina/food use. True story, no sarcasm needed. BTW, did someone complain about stamina use

before they nerfed it in B231?

 
Walking from starting spawn is OP, please nerf. Preferred outcome would be start game with a broken leg, bleeding, and infection. /sarcasm
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DON'T, not even as a joke... They'll listen and just to ♥♥♥♥ with people, implement it.

 
They nerfed stamina/food use. True story, no sarcasm needed. BTW, did someone complain about stamina usebefore they nerfed it in B231?
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It's been a hot topic, not sure if anyone actually said it was OP before they nerfed it hardcore though.

 
It's ok if they lower the prices that the traders will pay if they ALSO lower the prices that the trader charges for basic things. You sell a fully functioning pistol and you dont even get enough money to buy a full clip of 9mm rounds. There is no scenario I can think of where that makes sense. How are they calculating the value of these things? Or why is it that I have to sell 6 beers just to buy one bottle of water. Beer is clearly more expensive many times over and is mostly made up of water, but with a whole lot of additional labor put into it. How can 6 jars of water (with hops and labor/crafting time/ skill point investment added in top of it) only be worth enough to buy 1 jar of water in return? I know it's just a game but come on guys, especially with specialization you have to give us a way to use our specialization to make products to sell in exchange for things we cant make. That's the whole basis of trade.

I get that even in real life traders buy cheap and sell high but it's a bit too skewed in favor of the trader, even with points put into it. Guns should have a reasonable value. Theres no reason why I'm selling a quality 4 gun for less than 1k dukes but that same gun will cost me 16k dukes to buy. That's a profit margin of about 1600 percent. Not even wall street makes that kind of money! Lol who was traded rekt before the apocalypse, a hedge fund manager at Goldman Sachs??

I'm all for making the game harder but I think they may have unbalanced this aspect of the game. It's a "cheap" way of increasing difficulty. One of the best parts about braving the crazy feral-infested POIs of earlier builds was knowing that you might pick up enough high value items to trade for that thing you actually wanted/needed at the trader that cost an arm and a leg. Now it's basically worth more as scrap. The item still costs an arm and a leg, but for some reason the same item when it's in your possession is worth like 1/20th of the value

***Suggestion.... give us a setting for trader price multiplier. If you want to trade a shotgun in exchange for 3 pieces of torn cloth and a can of peas be my guest lol but I think I would like the option to increase it just a wee bit. Different strokes for different folks.

 
Let's face is, quests are a joke. I don;t know why people would waste there time on them, unless they are really close.
Trader nerf sucks. Early game forget about buying anything but food at this point. I think the higher end stuff is more for mid to late game though. Don't think they want you buying that awesome pick with 3 mods in it on day 3. I think the trader nerf should be addressed with a massive duke buff on quests. They also need a really MASSIVE xp buff.
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Great rule of thumb: If anything is so good that everyone does it as often as possible it probably is too good.

My impression was that everyone was questing as often as possible from day 1, and got all iron tools, some armor and weapons by day 5, through quests and buying the rest.

Our co-op games in A17 (like in A16) started with us looking for the trader and putting our base right next to it. This still may be the case now, but at least that doesn't give us everything we want on a platter. Now you really have to save up money if you want something good.

Like it is done in every other game. In a typical RPG the traders often have the whole range of weaponry available, even legendary weapons and armor, But anything but the lowest stuff is clearly out of range of what a low-level character can afford. This is how traders who are reachable from the get-go can be balanced.

And the 300 dukes you get for a T1 quest seem much more now in comparison to the junk you can sell.

 
Great rule of thumb: If anything is so good that everyone does it as often as possible it probably is too good.
My impression was that everyone was questing as often as possible from day 1, and got all iron tools, some armor and weapons by day 5, through quests and buying the rest.
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If the first one is the case, then birds nest is in for a serious reduction.

For the second one, count me out. I did one quest, to see what they was all about.

First of all, they are not worth the rewards. Second, they do not mean anything in the

gameworld. So they are also meaningless.

 
I get that even in real life traders buy cheap and sell high but it's a bit too skewed in favor of the trader, even with points put into it. Guns should have a reasonable value. Theres no reason why I'm selling a quality 4 gun for less than 1k dukes but that same gun will cost me 16k dukes to buy. That's a profit margin of about 1600 percent. Not even wall street makes that kind of money! Lol who was traded rekt before the apocalypse, a hedge fund manager at Goldman Sachs??
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Well, maybe we can find out what the profit margin was for traders near the Klondike river at the times of the gold rush. Usual story is that they got rich while many of the prospectors lost their gold to them (and bandits, taverns...).

Now I think the situation in 7days might be much closer to Klondike than to Amazon.

 
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Great rule of thumb: If anything is so good that everyone does it as often as possible it probably is too good.
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I don't get this... Isn't this the point of all games ever created. Someone finds a way to be the best way of doing something and everyone follows. If you mean that every time someone finds the best way to do something it NEEDS to be nerfed, then we don't agree at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

My impression was that everyone was questing as often as possible from day 1, and got all iron tools, some armor and weapons by day 5, through quests and buying the rest.
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This goes with my previous point. I thought the addition of the quests were to have an "alternative" way of gaining dukes, getting gear, and not having to fight/loot as much. If you take that away, you're making the same mistake as the AI/building situation. There's only a couple ways to build not to get wrecked.

Less options are not good. (Plus if I'm not mistaken, I believe I read somewhere that Traders were getting Reputation, so I believe they're a long term investment. No chance of removing them as some have asked for)

 
If the first one is the case, then birds nest is in for a serious reduction.
For the second one, count me out. I did one quest, to see what they was all about.

First of all, they are not worth the rewards. Second, they do not mean anything in the

gameworld. So they are also meaningless.
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Well, quests are the perfect side dishes if you are scavenging anyway and in the beginning are an excellent source for money, iron tools, armor and sledgehammer. If you have no need for them, good for you.

If you are a builder, you might take a look at the buried treasure quest since you need clay anyway and this gives a nice bonus.

 
Just testing out B238 trader. I wanted to see if our coffee and beer business from our last game would work. Before B231 we had planted 2 garbage bins (28 seeds each) of coffee and 1 of hops and every few days I would run stacks of both to top up each traders demand, making 900+ Dukes per stack, 4-5k Dukes per run. Decent coin, but felt the effort put in was pretty balanced. I see now that the prices are much lower off the bat 9 Dukes per coffee for example, but when I perked Better Bargain the increase looked more like 100% than 10%. The second point brought coffee to 27 dukes per, 300%. Gonna continue with my same character build of focused Salvage Ops/Better Barter/Hide in Shadows as a professional scrapper because the changes still seem viable once invested in at least 2-3 perks.

 
I don't get this... Isn't this the point of all games ever created. Someone finds a way to be the best way of doing something and everyone follows. If you mean that every time someone finds the best way to do something it NEEDS to be nerfed, then we don't agree at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
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I'm not talking about this or that way being 5% better. I'm not talking about the perfect balance. I'm talking about a condition where the trader was the central focus point for many play-throughs. I heard in A16 players on open servers were camping around the trader if it wasn't forbidden. In our A16 co-op games my "job" as scavenger was usually over by day 15 because everything ever needed could be bought from the traders. The trader was like a loot-box where you can CHOOSE what's inside. And money was never any problem.

And in A17 money was somewhat nerfed but because of the quests the trader became even more important.

This goes with my previous point. I thought the addition of the quests were to have an "alternative" way of gaining dukes, getting gear, and not having to fight/loot as much. If you take that away, you're making the same mistake as the AI/building situation. There's only a couple ways to build not to get wrecked.
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In my opinion quests still provide good value because they are a source for dukes early on. I don't see this being taken away, especially since selling items to get dukes is worse now. And you can still get iron tools and other much needed stuff through them so I really don't see that they are useless now, at least for scavengers. As an alternative to the forge.

(All this with the caveat that we have to try it out to make a final verdict)

The problem of the trader always was that the scavenger could use the trader much better than a miner because selling the stuff he found was easily enough to buy anything. If you really want to balance that you may have to increase the worth of some higher crafted products. But definitely not the worth of loot.

 
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