PC Mining, The final experience. 17.4

[ARRANOX]

I want to discuss what people thing the final mining experience should be like.

Right now i think mining is as bad as it has ever been, due to the unbalanced need for mining to survive and build your base.

its a drag to get past the slow build up of skill and tools that are required to mine efficiently. but once you reach a decent level and hit a Iron vein it is so large and produces so much that you can fill one chest up with just raw iron. so much that you wont need to mine anymore iron for the rest of your game.

The positive about this:

yay it was boring anyway, now i don`t need to mine anymore.

Negative:

when you figure you want more ammo for your turrets, you need coal and nitrate.

but you only find more iron. (even when you dig down where the gravel points to other stuff)

I remember Madmole talked about removing the voxel world to have the game less focused on mining.

its not a bad suggestion as but i think this kind of limits the base building aswell if you want a moat or underground stuff.

but it could be interesting as it wold drastically change how we would defend against zombies and how we would build our bases.

maybe something simpler to implement would be the right move though.

if stone gave you less harvest but was alot quicker to mine, and the veins where smaller and more compact

they also had a plan to make random generated caves, i haven`t heard anything but i think this is dead.

My favorite suggestion is the mining POI`s

anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

There is always the surface rocks with everything in them. In SP you don´t have to dig if you don´t want to.

Removing the voxel world? Wouldn´t that mean a complete overhaul of the game, ending in a totally different game? Isn´t voxels what gives us a world where you can destroy everything? How about building then?

 

[meganoth]

Whatever MM said (joke, thought experiment,...), removing voxels definitely won't happen for 7 Days to Die.

Remember that there are spike throwers as an alternative to turrets. If you find too much iron, that's the way to go. Resource distribution might need more balancing though, but I haven't dug enough (left that task for one of my co-op players) to really have an opinion about this.

Caves are semi-dead as they probably are high on the wish list but the assigned developer for procedurally generating them is fully occupied with the RWG redesign at the moment. Something that might appear for A19 or later. More cave poi's could appear at any time though.

 

[RipClaw]

I've always loved mining. I spent whole days underground collecting resources. In A15 I even dug tunnels into every biome on the Navezgane map. Just for fun.

Unfortunately this has changed with A17 because you have digging zombies with super hearing. They can hear you up to 35 blocks deep. There are a few approaches how to defend yourself but none of them works so you can work in peace. I still like to be in the mine but I can't relax as much as before.

The fact that "7 Days to die" is a voxel based game means you can shape the game world the way you want. If you take this aspect away, a lot of the game gets lost. You would sacrifice a lot of the game just to have a performance gain.

 

[Roland]

Apologies if you knew this already, OP, but the other ores are usually below the iron layer and closer to bedrock. You will often hit iron before getting to them.

 

[canadianbluebeer]

I'm currently hitting a HUGE lead and nitrate pocket at bedrock. I know there's iron above, I just went straight down, then out a long way (under a hill) to put my forge room.

In 16.4 yes, you would find stuff closer to the surface (and even nodes on the surface), but the other stuff is still there.

(there's a coal pocket down here too, just haven't hit it, is about 7-8 above bedrock on my map. A rather nice bullet materials node.

oh yes, I'm more than 50 blocks down, so no worries yet about diggers. As I go UP to get more stuff, then yes, but then I'll have the mats to put some defenses up while I finish mining out the hill. Otherwise, it's strip mining top down, and you just kill the uninvited guests.

A bit more dangerous, but doable.

 

[Cadamier]

I want to discuss what people thing the final mining experience should be like.
Right now i think mining is as bad as it has ever been, due to the unbalanced need for mining to survive and build your base.

its a drag to get past the slow build up of skill and tools that are required to mine efficiently. but once you reach a decent level and hit a Iron vein it is so large and produces so much that you can fill one chest up with just raw iron. so much that you wont need to mine anymore iron for the rest of your game.

The positive about this:

yay it was boring anyway, now i don`t need to mine anymore.

Negative:

when you figure you want more ammo for your turrets, you need coal and nitrate.

but you only find more iron. (even when you dig down where the gravel points to other stuff)

I remember Madmole talked about removing the voxel world to have the game less focused on mining.

its not a bad suggestion as but i think this kind of limits the base building aswell if you want a moat or underground stuff.

but it could be interesting as it wold drastically change how we would defend against zombies and how we would build our bases.

maybe something simpler to implement would be the right move though.

if stone gave you less harvest but was alot quicker to mine, and the veins where smaller and more compact

they also had a plan to make random generated caves, i haven`t heard anything but i think this is dead.

My favorite suggestion is the mining POI`s

anyone have any thoughts on this?

In MP for us (9) we're having difficulty in finding nitrate... Coal isn't much of a problem since there are multiple avenues it streams from. Currently we're using: "25 or so blocks down" in snow biome but aren't having much luck. As compared to A16 - it was much easier. So to a degree at least it is hard.

In SP: Day 38 or so on a 12K map I've gone through just under 1/4 (probably 1/5th) of the map for the nodes! But I am stockpiling gunpowder and have a supply of 5k for now (only 5k)... Doesn't look that good considering I'll be out of the nodes (5x40%= around day 200)... There are alternatives but that does detract from the great fun that is assumed and 'found' to be the heart of the game - eliminating zeds by way of gunfire! But we can always resort to mods...

There is always the surface rocks with everything in them. In SP you don´t have to dig if you don´t want to.
Removing the voxel world? Wouldn´t that mean a complete overhaul of the game, ending in a totally different game? Isn´t voxels what gives us a world where you can destroy everything? How about building then?

As noted above I will have to dig, maybe sooner than I expect... Don't get me wrong but I loved mining before, now its dragging on too long and with little results! I had fun keeping a constant supply of 20K gunpowder on hand... It WAS one of the things I did with the group. But now its an excersize in futility, its detracted from what I had fun with. Can we mod fun back into the game?!?

 

[ARRANOX]

I can`t put my finger quite on it but like people are saying mining was somewhat more fun in A16. i like the changes done now but i does not feel as good as it did before.

the way i remember it was that you dug a tunnel until you hit a vein you dug out the ore and then moved on digging further down or ahead. but my current problem could be that the veins are just to big and clustered now.

one vein can take up to several hours of gameplay to clean out, and its filled with gravel and stone all over the place.

a nice clean vein would be alot more rewarding.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Right now i think mining is as bad as it has ever been, due to the unbalanced need for mining to survive and build your base.its a drag to get past the slow build up of skill and tools that are required to mine efficiently. but once you reach a decent level and hit a Iron vein it is so large and produces so much that you can fill one chest up with just raw iron. so much that you wont need to mine anymore iron for the rest of your game.

I don't experience this and I mine a lot. Upgrading everything to steel and using blade and dart traps keeps the need of it flowing. If there is something to blame for not needing this stuff anymore, it would be weak zombies or weak zombie AI. Perhaps you will need more after the demolishers destroy more of your base.

Negative:

when you figure you want more ammo for your turrets, you need coal and nitrate.

but you only find more iron. (even when you dig down where the gravel points to other stuff)

I've never found the gravel method very effective. I always just mined in different biomes. This isn't usually a problem as I tend to mine tunnels straight through as many biomes as I can. I have not verified that certain deposits are more plentiful in other biomes in recent builds though. Anybody can verify this for certain?

I remember Madmole talked about removing the voxel world to have the game less focused on mining.

Source? Was he serious about this? This would be the worst idea ever. 7D2D has done a lot to master the voxel world. A18 will prove that even more. Other developers will look to 7D2D for inspiration in the genre. It is literally the best thing it has going for it.

they also had a plan to make random generated caves, i haven`t heard anything but i think this is dead.

It might be dead. I suppose caves would add a little bit more to the discovery element to the game, but the underground world itself isn't as big as it used to be either. If they could squeeze in a few big ones in a map, I wonder what benefit it would really bring. I would just see it as a hole that disrupts my tunneling system and removes the chance of ore that could be there instead of air.

 

[Omega-Factor]

Caves added a lot to game play IMO. Especially when ferals and bears spawned in them.

But itآ’s OK if the game is boring as long as the performance is better, right?

 

[ARRANOX]

Source? Was he serious about this? This would be the worst idea ever. 7D2D has done a lot to master the voxel world. A18 will prove that even more. Other developers will look to 7D2D for inspiration in the genre. It is literally the best thing it has going for it.

it was just him thinking out loud in one of his videos. but yeah i also think it should be a bad idea,

 

[Damocles]

I would replace the random underground resource blobs with dedicated mine-POIs. Where the resources are spawned in the soil if those POIs. (As actual veins of deposits)

Its easier to control the resource amount and type, and closer to real world deposits.

The world generation then can place those Mine POIs with a meaningful distribution.

The POIs dont need to be actual mining buildings, but could be some simple prospecting site, or just a surface level start if the ore vein.

 

[Scyris]

I've always loved mining. I spent whole days underground collecting resources. In A15 I even dug tunnels into every biome on the Navezgane map. Just for fun.
Unfortunately this has changed with A17 because you have digging zombies with super hearing. They can hear you up to 35 blocks deep. There are a few approaches how to defend yourself but none of them works so you can work in peace. I still like to be in the mine but I can't relax as much as before.

The fact that "7 Days to die" is a voxel based game means you can shape the game world the way you want. If you take this aspect away, a lot of the game gets lost. You would sacrifice a lot of the game just to have a performance gain.

Yeah thats because in TFP's genius they forgot to have blocks muffle sound, I am so sick and tired of a zombie 30+ blocks outside of the poi hearing me open a locker inside a poi then coming in. The whole sound detection system needs a complete overhaul as its currently broken as hell. I am glad the smell system went away, as I always felt it was stupid. How is something with rotting noses, going to smell meat over their own stink? Same with hearing, they have rotted ears, there is no way they should be able to hear as well as they do.

 

[jdm311]

It might be dead. I suppose caves would add a little bit more to the discovery element to the game, but the underground world itself isn't as big as it used to be either. If they could squeeze in a few big ones in a map, I wonder what benefit it would really bring. I would just see it as a hole that disrupts my tunneling system and removes the chance of ore that could be there instead of air.

I agree with this. In Rising World and Minecraft, caves are nice to spot ores and explore, but the map size is virtually endless. If 7d2d goes this route, they should probably increase the resource distribution.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I agree with this. In Rising World and Minecraft, caves are nice to spot ores and explore, but the map size is virtually endless. If 7d2d goes this route, they should probably increase the resource distribution.

Also in Minecraft, you really don’t have a reason to build tunnels. You could for the sake of doing it, but there are easier ways to be safe in the world. With that said, and like you said, in MC you tend to look for caves for exposed ores because it’s easier that way. In 7D2D, at the right depth all you need to do is tunnel and you will eventually get the ores you need while at the same time you establish safe routes.

 

[TheProphet]

like 50% of people I know love living un underground bunkers and terraforming in general

i doubt madmode has ♥♥♥♥ for brains so he isn't going to commit development suicide by removing voxing world at any point in time

 

[TheProphet]

Yeah thats because in TFP's genius they forgot to have blocks muffle sound, I am so sick and tired of a zombie 30+ blocks outside of the poi hearing me open a locker inside a poi then coming in. The whole sound detection system needs a complete overhaul as its currently broken as hell. I am glad the smell system went away, as I always felt it was stupid. How is something with rotting noses, going to smell meat over their own stink? Same with hearing, they have rotted ears, there is no way they should be able to hear as well as they do.

what, they still didn't fix the sound system? i stopped playing the game when mining became frustrating because all of my friends loved creating massive underground resistance bunkers in pvp and I was hoping it would eventually become playable again

why is it so hard to understand that some people love underground mining and not building stupid houses atop which is the last thing you would do in a post apocalitptic world? me and my friends are engineers and we could build bunkers in real life and that's what we would do, we limit us with the vision of the developer in charge and just not let freedom develop and let people play however the ♥♥♥♥ the they want? dumb devs always will potentially good games. this was going to be the ultimate zombie survival game but it if they nerf the terraforming aspect it will become another boring ass rust clone.

- - - Updated - - -

I've always loved mining. I spent whole days underground collecting resources. In A15 I even dug tunnels into every biome on the Navezgane map. Just for fun.
Unfortunately this has changed with A17 because you have digging zombies with super hearing. They can hear you up to 35 blocks deep. There are a few approaches how to defend yourself but none of them works so you can work in peace. I still like to be in the mine but I can't relax as much as before.

The fact that "7 Days to die" is a voxel based game means you can shape the game world the way you want. If you take this aspect away, a lot of the game gets lost. You would sacrifice a lot of the game just to have a performance gain.

the terraforming is what distinguishes 7d2d from the rest of zombie sandbox games

 

[OnionRings]

I don't know what the solution would be, but I do agree iron veins are too common and too large. As you said when you find a vein you are literally pretty much set the entire game, and don't need to find another one for quite some time.

 

[ARRANOX]

The surface mining spots might be a solution, but you can`t find them on Navezgane, and RWG splatmap is broken again.

however i don`t think the surface deposits actually add any "fun" or rewarding gameplay.

making mines more attractive again would be a huge improvement to the game experience.

 

[RipClaw]

The surface mining spots might be a solution, but you can`t find them on Navezgane, and RWG splatmap is broken again. however i don`t think the surface deposits actually add any "fun" or rewarding gameplay.

The surface resource piles are supposed to come back in A18.

making mines more attractive again would be a huge improvement to the game experience.

The question is always what is fun for the individual. Some want always only tension, excitement always dangers. If a cave is not full of bears and ferals zombies then it is boring for them. Honestly, their lives must be incredibly boring.

I, on the other hand, have always found mining to be something relaxing and I have enjoyed it very much. So exactly the opposite of other players.