PC Millions of PvP players...

[SylenThunder]

with millions of pvp players playing this game and no talk of new pvp features in the update or dev diary, kind of odd. 

It isn't odd at all when you consider that the development is focused on PvE, and almost always has been.

 

[8_Hussars]

Never played PvP.

Have the "PvP" achievements though...

 

[Kazgrel]

I've the max pvp kills achieve for this game on Steam.  95% of those were from a single playthrough of Darkness Falls back in A18 or 19.  The remaining bit were from an A20 vanilla playthrough where we left friendly fire on.  Not once have I set foot on a pvp server.

 

[ItsDaddyD]

Title: The Untapped Power of PvP: A Call to The Fun Pimps

As a long-time survivor in the brutal, blood-soaked world of 7 Days to Die, I’ve seen the best and worst this game has to offer — from mind-blowing base designs and ingenious traps to the tense thrill of defending your hard-earned loot from real, unpredictable enemies. And let’s be honest: there’s no adrenaline rush like clashing with another player at high noon in the wasteland, knowing that one misstep means starting over with nothing but a stone axe and your grit.

That’s the magic of PvP in 7 Days to Die — it’s unforgiving, raw, and wildly entertaining.

Yet despite the thriving, creative, and highly engaged PvP community, the game has historically leaned heavily toward PvE development. Zombies are awesome. Horde nights are iconic. But PvP brings an entirely different layer of strategy, tension, and replayability that deserves serious developer attention and support.

Why PvP Deserves More Support
1. The Meta Is Deep — And Growing
PvP in 7DTD isn’t just “run and gun.” It’s raid strategy, stealth, misdirection, terrain advantage, weapon mod meta, and base-building mind games. Players spend hours theorycrafting new defense systems or designing impossible-to-raid bunkers. The depth rivals top survival PvP games — and yet it's rarely highlighted or balanced intentionally.

2. The Community is Hungry — and Massive
There are countless dedicated PvP servers — many with unique rulesets, economy systems, raid schedules, and leaderboards. Entire Discords and Twitch channels revolve around PvP. This isn’t a niche side project. It’s a full-on playstyle with thousands of passionate, loyal players. Support us, and we’ll show up in force.

3. PvP Extends the Game’s Lifespan
PvE has a limit. Once you've maxed skills and beaten the horde on day 700, the thrill fades. But PvP? Every fight is different. Every base raid is a puzzle. Every server reset breathes new life into the game. PvP gives 7 Days near-endless replayability — especially when balanced and enhanced with purpose.

4. It’s Already Good — Just Needs Polish
Let’s give credit where it’s due: PvP in 7DTD can be fantastic. Gunplay is gritty and satisfying. Melee is visceral. Trap mechanics are a base defender's dream. But with a few key adjustments — like improved hit detection, raid balance, PvP-focused skill trees, or server-side admin tools — this could become the premiere sandbox PvP survival experience on the market.

What We’re Asking For
We’re not asking for 7 Days to become Rust or DayZ. We’re asking for love. For attention. For updates that consider PvP balance and dynamics. For optional PvP modes with loot scaling. For backend tools that make managing PvP servers smoother. For features that deepen player-on-player combat, not just NPC AI.

Give us that, and we’ll do the rest. The PvP community is creative, passionate, and dedicated. We build the servers, create the content, and keep the playerbase thriving long after the horde has passed.

Final Word to The Fun Pimps
You’ve built one of the most versatile, replayable survival games of all time. The bones are strong. The tools are powerful. But PvP — the most dynamic part of your game — is still waiting to be truly unlocked.

Let’s make 7 Days to Die the game that doesn’t just survive the apocalypse — it dominates it.

We’re not just fighting zombies. We’re fighting for the future of PvP.

Signed,
A veteran of the wasteland
(And a die-hard PvP believer)

 

[linewalker]

1. The Meta Is Deep — And Growing

It has actually been declining. Average was 3% with a peak of 5% half a decade ago, and lately has barely been above 1%. This has been discussed recently.

2. The Community is Hungry — and Massive

So far no one has proven this. GM has made up imaginary numbers, but there is no proof. The only viable data currently available shows a steep decline in the PvP community.

3. PvP Extends the Game’s Lifespan

It actually shortens the lifespan when you take a PvE game and convert it for PvP because you alienate your primary player base. This is simple logic. PvE excels in this game because of the re-playability.

4. It’s Already Good — Just Needs Polish

TFP has stated that they may work on balance for PvP after the game is finished. I expect that will happen in a few years or so. (don't believe the roadmap)
Most of the things you list are already accessible via 3rd-party mods that already exist. Which is kind of the point in making the game moddable.

What We’re Asking For
We’re not asking for 7 Days to become Rust or DayZ. We’re asking for love. For attention. For updates that consider PvP balance and dynamics. For optional PvP modes with loot scaling. For backend tools that make managing PvP servers smoother. For features that deepen player-on-player combat, not just NPC AI.

You are basically asking TFP to stop making their game the way they want it, and to cater to your extremely small minority. This is a dumb idea. It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to see that.


The only thing you're fighting for, it to ruin the game for the grand majority of people that are playing it.

 

[theFlu]

Average was 3% with a peak of 5% half a decade ago, and lately has barely been above 1%.

What does 3% Meta mean?

 

[Riamus]

It has actually been declining. Average was 3% with a peak of 5% half a decade ago, and lately has barely been above 1%. This has been discussed recently.


So far no one has proven this. GM has made up imaginary numbers, but there is no proof. The only viable data currently available shows a steep decline in the PvP community.


It actually shortens the lifespan when you take a PvE game and convert it for PvP because you alienate your primary player base. This is simple logic. PvE excels in this game because of the re-playability.


TFP has stated that they may work on balance for PvP after the game is finished. I expect that will happen in a few years or so. (don't believe the roadmap)
Most of the things you list are already accessible via 3rd-party mods that already exist. Which is kind of the point in making the game moddable.


You are basically asking TFP to stop making their game the way they want it, and to cater to your extremely small minority. This is a dumb idea. It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to see that.


The only thing you're fighting for, it to ruin the game for the grand majority of people that are playing it.

I'm not sure some of your responses matched what you quoted... The percent of people playing PVP in this game isn't related to the meta, for example. Also, I think some information isn't correct.

You may even have been going off things I've said, so I want to clarify some things.

• The percent of PVP players in this game, based only on Steam achievements, is no more than 3%. And due to friendly fire kills, NPC kills that count as player kills, and achievement hunters, this number is likely under 1%. However, we don't have data stating for sure where it is at. All we know is it is under 3%. We assume this percent holds steady across PC platforms, and console really doesn't have real PVP capability until they can use dedicated servers, though there is some ability. In any case, it still isn't a high percentage. With current average daily players on Steam, you are talking about fewer than 1000 unique players.
• There is no data that I have seen that shows any increase or decline in those numbers. Considering the game continues to get more players over the years, it is likely to also get more PVP players as well. On the other hand, many people who try PVP in this game realize it isn't really designed for PVP and so move on to other games that are designed for it and are therefore a better experience. So it may balance out or it may go up and down over time.
• I don't think anyone is suggesting removing PvE in order to add PVP stuff to the game, so you aren't alienating PvE players by adding stuff for PVP, so long as it doesn't negatively impact PvE. So it won't shorten the lifespan of the game. On the other hand, adding PVP doesn't automatically increase the lifespan of the game either. If people like the game (they do), they'll keep playing regardless of PVP.

In any case, I personally see no reason to try and force PVP into any PvE game. There are so many good PVP games out there for that. Yes, this game is a bit unique, offering something other games don't. But most of the stuff that is unique is for PvE and doesn't really improve PVP. Things that are good for PVP are available in most other PVP games in one form or another. Even so, I see no reason to not offer support for PVP as long as it doesn't impact PvE negatively. But I do think that needs to be done after they finish the PvE game. Let's get the game finished and then they can add PVP stuff afterwards.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

my numbers are based off (xbox, ps5, steam and steam hack accounts) that means all the accounts that have sold over the last decade.

ive already shown that valve reported 77000 hack steam accounts per month alot of them included 7d2d so yes if you take in account all 7d2d sales and resales over the last decade that number is well over what i said.. and yes as of today there are still many sites players can go and buy steam accounts for 7d2d for couple of dollars. People buy them all the time for their alts.

 

[zztong]

You are basically asking TFP to stop making their game the way they want it, and to cater to your extremely small minority. This is a dumb idea. It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to see that.

I respectfully disagree with this conclusion. While I can agree that @ItsDaddyD eloquently states his case and brings up some points that may not be accurate, I don't think they're begrudging PvE development. I take their message as an appeal for what they hope is a modest commitment of TFP's time/effort to address some issues that complicate their game play. I suspect they would be happy with small improvements over time even if they dream of one glorious "PvP Revolution" update.

I take their approach as having realized that putting a couple of suggestions in Pimp Dreams wasn't enough to feel like they had been heard along with the realization that it might take a continued effort to plead their case if those features/changes are ever to happen.

I can agree that some arguments appear to distort the presence of PvP play, but I would argue a minority of players should be able to make a case, even in a continuous, perhaps nagging, manner.

I have been part of conversations on these boards where some of us have suggested they might get their improvements via mods. @Grandpa Minion did describe how he had modders that could do that, though there was some confusion related to the support they needed. He persisted that Steam Workshop support was needed, but that is demonstrably false from a technical perspective. It isn't necessarily false in the practical sense that players have a lot of control over installed mods and they could possibly avoid installing some/all of the PvP modlets. Sorting that out could be pretty complex.

I, not a PvP player, can support their pleas for support, even if they overstate the case and the PvP player base doesn't significantly affect TFP's bottom line. I can also respect that TFP commits resources where it feels they will best play out. There's drama in this disconnect, but there doesn't have to be disrespect.

 

[Riamus]

my numbers are based off (xbox, ps5, steam and steam hack accounts) that means all the accounts that have sold over the last decade.

ive already shown that valve reported 77000 hack steam accounts per month alot of them included 7d2d so yes if you take in account all 7d2d sales and resales over the last decade that number is well over what i said.. and yes as of today there are still many sites players can go and buy steam accounts for 7d2d for couple of dollars. People buy them all the time for their alts.

Owning the game isn't the same as playing the game. So accounts don't matter. And, as you say, PVP players often have multiple alt accounts. You can't count a single person as 10 people just because they have 9 alt accounts. It is important to look only at unique players. Of course, there isn't actual data on that unless TFP has some. All we can look at are the achievements, which show 3% have killed over 25 "players" (this can include NPCs from mods) since that achievement was added. That means that, on Steam, fewer than 3% played PVP since that achievement was added. I say fewer because many of those who have the achievement have gotten it because of NPCs in mods, friendly fire, or hunting achievements, and not from actual PVP.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

look how ever you want to distort the figures is fine thats your choice...

The thing is... from all the 7d2d pvp players i know most of them do not even ask for special game updates or features most of us just want the game to give some luv in fixn game breaking pvp bugs.
Its not like we are asking for a game over haul that will threaten pve...
there are major game breaking bugs that hurt pvp example:
d*****
x*****
s*****
i******
so on...

some of these things we have been waiting for a decade to get fixed so yeah when pvp players see things like
twitch added instead of tfp addressing these major bugs it gets old very fast.

 

[Riamus]

There isn't any twisting of numbers. The achievement is quite clear.

In any case, I have stated that I have no problem with PVP stuff added if it doesn't hurt PvE. But devs have said it isn't a priority right now.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

But devs have said it isn't a priority right now.

yeah thats exactly why i started this thread because with millions and millions of people that have playd 7d2d pvp over the years how can it not be a priority? something is not adding up....

 

[SylenThunder]

What does 3% Meta mean?

In his reply, it doesn't look like it should read "3% meta".

Saying "The Meta is Deep - And Growing" implies that there is already a large base for the "PvP Meta", and that it is increasing.

linewalker is countering this with the history of statistics regarding the PvP playerbase. And he's right. It has been steadily decreasing.

All of Grandpa Minion's numbers are made up and imaginary. They have very little basis in fact.

 

[Riamus]

how can it not be a priority?

Because it is a PvE game. And your "millions" have been shown to be vastly inflated.

There isn't anything wrong with trying to promote PVP improvements in this game. But you will get more people who support your efforts if you don't try to make up or exaggerate things. I've mentioned that before, but you seem not to care. That leaves people just ignoring what you say because they keep seeing made up data. You end up hurting your cause rather than helping it.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

All of Grandpa Minion's numbers are made up and imaginary. They have very little basis in fact.

you keep saying that so i would like to ask you what you think the numbers are?
steam reports 12.7 million pc accounts by itself we already know this so...

how many old (not modern) xbox accounts ?
how many old (not modern) ps accounts ?
how many current (modern) xbox accounts ?
how many current (modern) ps accounts ?
how many steam hack account resales ?

all figues must include all time that 7d2d has been out.

 

[BFT2020]

GP is now AI'd

7 days to die number of PvP players

The exact number of players specifically engaging in PvP (Player vs. Player) in 7 Days to Die is difficult to quantify precisely
.
However, some information from community discussions and server lists can give you an idea:

• Some estimates suggest millions of players engage in PvP: One community member states that with over 40 million copies sold across platforms, and over 8% of accounts having at least 5 kills, it implies millions of people play PvP. However, this is just an estimate based on in-game actions and may not represent active PvP players.
• A significant portion of players may not participate in PvP: It's also noted that a large percentage of players, possibly around 92%, may never have achieved 5 kills, suggesting they haven't actively engaged in PvP. This suggests that the majority of players might prefer the PvE (Player vs. Environment) aspects of the game