PC Metallurgy problems: Stone -> Iron -> Steel doesn't make much sense.

N

Nucleus24

New member
As someone who knows some metallurgy, the current Stone -> Iron -> Steel progression doesn't really make much sense.

In terms of Iron, the important part is the carbon content.

<.8% carbon = Wrought Iron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrought_iron)

between .08% carbon and 2.14% carbon = Steel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel)

>2.14% carbon = Cast Iron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron)

Wrought Iron is soft, Steel is the good stuff, and Cast iron is too hard/brittle.

I assume that the "forge" in-game acts as a bloomery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomery), which means that our forge + anvil made "forged Iron" is actually wrought Iron. We then use a crucible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucible_steel) to make steel. In general, well made steel is better than Wrought Iron. It's harder, yet doesn't shatter like cast iron, allowing it to keep a edge better.

The problem I have with all of this is that there is plenty of iron/steel in the environment already. Most combustion engines are full of quality steel, and cars are are even more full of it. Even poor quality modern tools have a decent amount of steel. It just doesn't make sense to try to mine Iron ore in any way when there is so much steel available in the environment. It seems that the Devs have tried to push towards mining of resources by making higher quality tools require large amounts of both "tool parts" and steel, which doesn't' make sense. A better pick doesn't take more resources to make, just higher quality ones.

I believe that the hard part of crafting a high quality tool should be creating the high quality steel, by carefully controlling the carbon % and the % of other trace elements, and not just getting "more" iron. I know that game-play takes precedent over realism. If I had my way, Steel would come in qualities, and a craftable/consumable crucibles would be used in a forge to combine scrap iron/iron ore +sand/clay/grass/bones/etc. into various quality steels, which would be used in steel tools.

 
It's a game. It's alpha. Common sense and logic applies less and less for each alpha. It peaked around A14-A16 , the logical stuff that is. A18 is a good build if not wanting too much realism.

Thank you for the feedback though.

 
I sub to blacksmithing and metalworking videos on youtube, so I feel you.

Isn't that always true though? As people who do something professionally, it almost never translates well into video game format.

Take me for instance, as a professional foodie and cook. I can tell you without reservation that cooking in video games is such a far cry from the actual profession.

 
I sub to blacksmithing and metalworking videos on youtube, so I feel you.
Isn't that always true though? As people who do something professionally, it almost never translates well into video game format.

Take me for instance, as a professional foodie and cook. I can tell you without reservation that cooking in video games is such a far cry from the actual profession.
Click to expand...
It's less about making everything follow realism (although renaming "forged Iron" to "wrought Iron" would be nice imo), and more about the strange inventory clutter with "steel tool parts" and "knife parts" and "baseball bat parts"

I think a lot of these "parts" could just be replaced with "gun parts" with various qualities, and "steel" with various qualities.

 
I've thought about things like this in the game for quite some time.

Steel production is one mental path I have traveled a few times.

A problem is that once you start thinking like this, it never really ends, one detail leads to another, and just before you have exhausted all your thoughts on the subject you come to a simple conclusion: a lone survivor in the zombie apocalypse is not going to be making steel--at least not at a quality and quantity that the game demands. Even concrete is a stretch. It's such a stretch in fact, that TFP decided that our concrete production doesn't even need water or electricity. This is just scratching the surface because basically everything doesn't make much sense.

Another problem is let's say you managed to work in some believable and realistic science for some aspect of the game... now you must do it for everything else or it doesn't fit in. In the end, you might still have a game, probably bordering a simulation if so, but it's nowhere near the same game you started with. You kinda need to stick with whatever level of realism you wish to have in a game for all of your systems, or it will lack cohesion and will not play well. Complex games can be fun too. I own a few pretty complex games that do their best to obey the laws of physics while keeping things fun. However, I could easily blow holes in any of them and point out things that don't make much sense. You just gotta let it go.

 
It's less about making everything follow realism (although renaming "forged Iron" to "wrought Iron" would be nice imo), and more about the strange inventory clutter with "steel tool parts" and "knife parts" and "baseball bat parts"
I think a lot of these "parts" could just be replaced with "gun parts" with various qualities, and "steel" with various qualities.
Click to expand...
Oh, don't get me wrong. I absolutely get it. But to some it might not be immersive enough, particular to those that have real world experience with things. It wasn't a complaint, just a shout out to the collective realization that not everything packages cleanly.

 
Interesting, never thought about it. Now I do, grrr.

Let me thank you for it by giving you this:

If you put rotten meat into farm plots irl, you will not get a crop but vermin.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Crafting iron shouldn't be hard.

What should be hard is attracking endless hordes of zombies. Right now the heat system is laughably easy to avoid. It should not be an easy task to have industrialized forges when there are billions of zombies out there with keen senses hunting for the most depraved type of meat .

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top