PC Make Crafted Items better than Looted

[Nexian]

It seems odd to me to max out a skill, but then need to simply find the best item anyway. But I also like the idea that you can find good items.

So, I was thinking, what if:

1. Item level went to 10, instead of 6. (bear with me)

2. Items only require one part, but parts have quality levels

3. 3 item parts can be crafted into a part of a higher tier

4. The crafting skills can increase the chance of finding higher tier items of their type

5. You can only find items of up to level 9 in the game world

6. [Edit] Crafting skill increase the range of random stats a crafted item can have

So, to get a Tier 10 handgun, you'd need one Tier 10 Handgun part as part of the recipe. How many total lesser parts would it need?

T9 parts: 3

T8 parts: 9

T7 parts: 27

T6 parts: 81

T5 parts: 243

T4 parts: 729

T3 parts: 2,187

T2 parts: 6,561

T1 parts: 19,683

What this does:

1. It allows more part drops and more gun drops without easily getting the final Tier of a weapon, tool or armor

2. We can limit the maximum tier of items dropped without making them feel like bad drops, as they build towards crafting the best items

3. It gives a longer progression track for each item to give longer-term goals to aim for

4. You, the player, craft your final item, building up and finding the parts over time instead of simply getting very lucky and finding it in one quick instant.

You can only find T9 of any item as loot in the world. But, a T9 is still an amazing find, as you only need to find 3 T9 Weapons or parts to craft a Tier 10.

In reality a T9 would be incredibly rare, with T6 being a more common end-game "good loot". But, all the items are still valuable as they all work towards making the best Tier.

This system would just make all drops valuable for items, but you'd still be extremely happy to find that extra rare drop, without it having to be your final item. 

Oh, also I'd say the tool/weapon/etc [Edit]would give the part back when scrapped, just none of the other materials would give back parts of a lower tier when scrapped (but not quite enough to make the higher tier part). This means you wouldn't feel like you're stunting your progression as much by crafting an item of lower than the maximum tier. This also means you can't easily re-craft items to try for better stats, needing to find more parts to try again.

As for combining parts I'd say the workbench could have an area similar to the forge for smelting, but it instead slowly "smelts" a stack of parts, turning 3 into 1 better part in the output.

And as an extra, for armor, we could adjust the combine cost and required parts.

e.g. If armor pieces each needed 8 parts of the same quality to make, but armor parts only needed to combine 2 to make a higher tier instead of 3, then a full tier 10 set of armor would need 20,480 tier 1 parts, very similar to the amount a single weapon or tool would need.

 

[ColdGate]

Disagree, existing system more correct, best items must be only in loot and quest rewards. 

 

[Sydious]

I will leave my part of the debate at this...

Game is called...

7 Days to Die, The Survival, Horde, CRAFTING Game.

Not...

7 Days to Die, The Survival, Horde, Looting Game.

 

[lord_ahriman]

"Survival" means you need to find stuff to help keep you alive. Crafting is on a very good position and that's an opinion from a builder crafter player. You want the best stuff, you need to loot, but all T5 tools and weapons you can craft are very good as well. So, I'd say no to OP.

 

[Junuxx]

It used to be almost exactly like this: Combine two poor items in the workbench to create a better one.

It incentivized mind-numbing spam crafting. It wasn't good.

 

[Roland]

In my opinion, they just need to re-introduce item degradation. The first time you repair it you get 75% durability. The second time 50% durability. The third time 25% durability. Then it is just broken and can only be scrapped for parts. In this way the item always keeps the same number of mod slots so no mods are popping off the item when it degrades and items aren't changing colors.

Then it doesn't matter if you found it in loot. It will eventually be gone and you'll need to either find or craft a replacement. Boom. Crafting has a more significant role. The thing that kills crafting (and looting) right now is that once you find that best item you have it for the rest of the game. Let it degrade away and now you will need to craft one until a new one can be found. Find two of something? That's great. Save one for when the first one breaks.

Tie stats to durability so that weapon and tool effectiveness degrades as the bar empties and you'll see people crafting to replace even before the one they found is completely destroyed.

 

[Jeraal]

In my opinion, they just need to re-introduce item degradation. The first time you repair it you get 75% durability. The second time 50% durability. The third time 25% durability. Then it is just broken and can only be scrapped for parts.

Then it doesn't matter if you found it in loot. It will eventually be gone and you'll need to either find or craft a replacement. Boom. Crafting has a more significant role. The thing that kills crafting (and looting) right now is that once you find that best item you have it for the rest of the game. Let it degrade away and now you will need to craft one until a new one can be found. Find two of something? That's great. Save one for when the first one breaks.

Careful Roland. It almost sounds as though you would like something to go back to the way it used to be. 

 

[Roland]

Ha...true. But I'm being positive about it. Plus it would be different than it was. No combining and no changing of quality levels. They removed the item degradation because of mods but I think they could probably return it with mods if done a different way.

Plus, nobody on the dev team has stated several times that item degradation is never ever coming back...

...yet.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Agree with Roland, tools should become unusable after they degraded. In most crafting games they simply break and vanish. That they can be repaired limited times is already a concession. That they can be repaired indefinitely is way to OP and almost completely removes the need for crafting. It also reduces the need for certain skills. Why should one craft wrenches? Once you've found one, you have one forever. Usually people find many wrenches, but in what quality? And you would need them if you can not repair them endlessly.

In my A19 playthrough i crafted almost nothing, and especially not a single tool or weapon. Up to day ~20 i haven't even built a workbench, not because i couldn't, i found the receipe already before day 10, but i simply didn't need one. I found everything i needed and i even found everything in way better qualities that i could craft them. And since nothing really breakes and can be repaired for ever, there are no replacements needed either.

I only keep on duplicate backup equipment, because recently my backpack got lost after i died. Everything else is basically sold to the trader.

 

[Gazz]

Oh, we have talked about "fancier item degradation".

Like... on every (or a chance on) non-workstation repair, add an invisible "degradation" mod from a list that makes an item worse in some way.

That way it can lose damage, durability, drain more stamina... anything, really.

There are are always hundreds of features that we could add to the game but limited time to do so.

 

[Nexian]

"Survival" means you need to find stuff to help keep you alive. Crafting is on a very good position and that's an opinion from a builder crafter player. You want the best stuff, you need to loot, but all T5 tools and weapons you can craft are very good as well. So, I'd say no to OP.

Huh, after reading the first part of your comment I figured it would be a yes rather than a no. This system needs you to go out and loot and explore WAY more than the current system.

It used to be almost exactly like this: Combine two poor items in the workbench to create a better one.

It incentivized mind-numbing spam crafting. It wasn't good.

Agreed. But this system doesn't. It's just combining parts into better parts through a "smelting" on the workbench. Not crafting a full item and combining them. The only item you'd actually craft is the one you'd use.

The main focus of this is to make it so if you want the best item of a type, you need to really explore areas that would have that type, loot plenty of it's type and it's parts, even quality 1 are useful towards the end goal (which makes for less trash loot). This would also mean that the exploration and loot is required to get the best item, but the final best item comes from crafting it. I'm basically imagining a game world where, even on day 50 you're up to maybe Quality 8, maybe 9 if you're really lucky. And this is if you've been specifically looking in places where this item type drops pretty avidly. But for crafting grind? You've crafted maybe 5 of the item itself, as the upgrades have come in.

As for degradation I'd love it as a feature. In the above system I'd implement it as the item durability decreasing each time, until the item became useless, but you can use a part of one quality below the item to increase it's durability again. You eventually get the best, but it needs more to maintain it. This may also mean you'd use a lower quality for day to day use. Not sure how it would work with scrapping parts, unless a scrapped item gave 2 parts of a lower quality instead of 1 of the same quality.

 

[Pichii]

Ha...true. But I'm being positive about it. Plus it would be different than it was. No combining and no changing of quality levels. They removed the item degradation because of mods but I think they could probably return it with mods if done a different way.

Plus, nobody on the dev team has stated several times that item degradation is never ever coming back...

...yet.

So, were gona be able to find MORE parts then right?
Id take that change.

Agreed. But this system doesn't. It's just combining parts into better parts through a "smelting" on the workbench. Not crafting a full item and combining them. The only item you'd actually craft is the one you'd use.

Absolutely not true in multiplayer.
I make many things for my players consistantly and them in reverse. Sometiems we dont take weapons skills till GS 30ish and thus use whatever weapons available.
After that when we do specialize, others can still make weapons you prefer till you find a great weapon. (Shotguns are pretty much always useful as an example, even without perks) Yet gatherers tend to be able to craft that gun.  lol

I can see you are definately thinking about this from a soloist perspective and thats not always the case.
I dont even bother taking weapons perks till I have the parts to craft a new one... Zeds scaling is laughable.

 

[Nexian]

Disagree, existing system more correct, best items must be only in loot and quest rewards. 

Worth noting that the final item crafted can't be found in loot. But that this system makes loot far more valuable.

Right now you craft a Quality 5 Handgun, and that is all your crafting done. It needed a few parts and some points in the skill. Now you loot and loot and loot, picking up a plethora of quality 1-5 handguns that are all useless to you. Then you find the quality 6 gun, WOO, best moment, yay. Except, that was a single moment of excitement with no build up, just random chance, over and over. 

Now imagine you find and combine parts, or scrap guns into quality parts. Now the parts you find can be combined into better parts. You're on day 14 and quality 1 handgun parts are still a good find, quality 3 is great. You find a quality 5 gun, you can use it, or scrap it for the part on the way to a quality 6 gun. You get that Q6 gun after looting all these bits, but then the next Q5 or Q6 gun is STILL a good find, no longer redundant as they go towards making your Q7 gun, the Q1 guns and parts are still useful too. The use only goes away when you finally reach a Q10 gun, same as when you get a Q6. But this time, you've seen your progress, you've had exciting moments of random good finds, either for good parts of good guns, but you had them multiple times, and each one gave a clear indication of progress towards the final gun. 

I think the second system just gives more bursts of excitement for good loot and gives you a satisfying progression towards your final item that a single random chance does not.

 

[Pichii]

I think the second system just gives more bursts of excitement for good loot and gives you a satisfying progression towards your final item that a single random chance does not.

Crafted items are *supposed* to randomize stats and mod slots (I dont think its working atm) So, there is actually a reason to craft more...
That being said, id love to see an expansion on weapon crafting tbh. It feels so useless in current form. Lack of parts are really the reason we dont want to keep crafting for mod slots or incramental increases of stats.

 

[Kalen]

Disagree, existing system more correct, best items must be only in loot and quest rewards. 

Since they added the concept of parts to crafting, you cant craft without looting any way.   So there really is no reason to not let you craft quality 6 gear, IMO.   

Items should definitely degrade in some way as you repair them to make crafting more relevant.   In my last play through, I was excited to find the steel tools recipe and then laughed when the very next container had a quality 6 steel pickaxe.

 

[Nexian]

Crafted items are *supposed* to randomize stats and mod slots (I dont think its working atm) So, there is actually a reason to craft more...
That being said, id love to see an expansion on weapon crafting tbh. It feels so useless in current form. Lack of parts are really the reason we dont want to keep crafting for mod slots or incramental increases of stats.

This system wouldn't change the random stats. (It definitely randomises stats, not sure on mods).

It would work better in this system with the later suggestion of an item scrapping into some of the lower tier parts instead of simply giving your original part back, so there's some extra effort needed to re-craft an item. But I feel that only adds to this system too, wanting to craft not only the final tier item, but then eventually trying to craft one with maxed out stats. I'd also say that since the crafting wouldn't impact the quality of the gun anymore, it should impact the range of random stats gained when you craft it.

And yes, the system above would definitely increase parts dropped, at least for lower tier guns. For instance, I'm imagining at later game stages a factory dungeon container may contain, for example, 90 Quality 1 Parts, or 15 Quality 3 Parts, or a chance of a Quality 5,6,7 Item, like a handgun (7 being extra rare), and a incredibly slim but existing chance of Quality 8 or 9

 

[Pichii]

This system wouldn't change the random stats. (It definitely randomises stats, not sure on mods).

It would work better in this system with the later suggestion of an item scrapping into some of the lower tier parts instead of simply giving your original part back, so there's some extra effort needed to re-craft an item. But I feel that only adds to this system too, wanting to craft not only the final tier item, but then eventually trying to craft one with maxed out stats. I'd also say that since the crafting wouldn't impact the quality of the gun anymore, it should impact the range of random stats gained when you craft it.

And yes, the system above would definitely increase parts dropped, at least for lower tier guns. For instance, I'm imagining at later game stages a factory dungeon container may contain, for example, 90 Quality 1 Parts, or 15 Quality 3 Parts, or a chance of a Quality 5,6,7 Item, like a handgun (7 being extra rare), and a incredibly slim but existing chance of Quality 8 or 9

Remember the good days when vehicles ran on a similar system and what you used to make them affected its stats? Good times.
Add that to weapons with this system please. That actually sounds fun.

 

[RestInPieces]

I will leave my part of the debate at this...

Game is called...

7 Days to Die, The Survival, Horde, CRAFTING Game.

Not...

7 Days to Die, The Survival, Horde, Looting Game.

Looting is unfortunately the only thing that drives exploration, which unequivocally is one of the game's main pillars.

In my opinion, they just need to re-introduce item degradation. The first time you repair it you get 75% durability. The second time 50% durability. The third time 25% durability. Then it is just broken and can only be scrapped for parts. In this way the item always keeps the same number of mod slots so no mods are popping off the item when it degrades and items aren't changing colors.

Then it doesn't matter if you found it in loot. It will eventually be gone and you'll need to either find or craft a replacement. Boom. Crafting has a more significant role. The thing that kills crafting (and looting) right now is that once you find that best item you have it for the rest of the game. Let it degrade away and now you will need to craft one until a new one can be found. Find two of something? That's great. Save one for when the first one breaks.

Tie stats to durability so that weapon and tool effectiveness degrades as the bar empties and you'll see people crafting to replace even before the one they found is completely destroyed.

I agree, that would actually boost both crafting and even looting. I think the stat drop shouldn't be larger than tier differences though.

 

[Sydious]

Looting is unfortunately the only thing that drives exploration, which unequivocally is one of the game's main pillars.

Don't give me that BS.  People will want to explore and loot anyway. Besides you have to loot for crafting now anyway.  If they don't that's fine.  Crafting is and has been a huge part of this game and you already have to go loot to do most crafting as it currently sits, and in no way is that part better than just some RNG crap that has been implemented. I just feel the perk system, crafting system, loot system should be on the same page and they are not, not even close.

 

[RestInPieces]

Don't give me that BS.  People will want to explore and loot anyway. Besides you have to loot for crafting now anyway.  If they don't that's fine.  Crafting is and has been a huge part of this game and you already have to go loot to do most crafting as it currently sits, and in no way is that part better than just some RNG crap that has been implemented. I just feel the perk system, crafting system, loot system should be on the same page and they are not, not even close.

Hardly BS, if they lack any long-term reasons to do that. Constantly having to farm clay and iron or cloth and glue surely doesn't give them one. And I disagree with "it's fine if they don't". Anyway, none said that crafting isn't also one of the game's pillars, but it shouldn't make exploration obsolete at any point of the game. Therefore, for starters, we need an item sink which would boost both.