PC Living of the Land its a poor gamble

My math is perfect, logic is bad where do you start with 50 fruit you have one or two seeds from loot if your lucky if seeds are plentiful its not a problem but they are not.  Perk level 1 you can not make seeds so you have to be level 2 to even attempt a veg garden and with RNG the results can be very bad, say you looted 1 seed and only get 4 product from your harvest  you loose hence the tile LOTL gamble.  With lots of seeds and and time it works but its tedious and time consuming.

Darklegend222 said:
A To whomever actually believes that you can't start a massive farm on 60 minute days within meaningful time, these were taken just now, right before our farmer got back to base, and right after I cooked all our food. The only bottleneck is mushrooms since we're slacking, we have so much food so do we REALLY need that spaghetti??

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I am curious what day your game is on and how many players you have?  My post is really about solo or 2 player games, I have no doubt that farming will work as I said it requires building the plot size up to make up for the 50% fail It also take a lot more time where as you have a dedicated farmer its not a problem.

Brian9824 said:
Your math is bad.  Red Eagle did it already on the steam forums


Perk level 0
2 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed
Perk Level 1
4 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed
Perk Level 2
4 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed + 50% chance of additional fruit
Perk Level 3
6 fruit/veg + 50% chance of seed + 50% chance of additional fruit


So with a start of 50 fruit that convert to 10 seeds.:
WORST CASE:
Perk Level 0
20 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit)+ 0 fruit = Loss 30 Fruit
Perk Level 1
40 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit) + 0 fruit = Loss 10 Fruit
Perk Level 2
40 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit) + 0 fruit = Loss 10 Fruit
Perk Level 3
60 Fruit + 0 seeds (worth 0fruit) + 0 fruit = Profit 10Fruit

AVERAGE CASE:
Perk Level 0
20 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) + 0 fruit = Loss 5 Fruit
Perk Level 1
40 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) + 0 fruit = Profit 15 Fruit
Perk Level 2
40 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) + 5 fruit = Profit 20 Fruit
Perk Level 3
60 Fruit + 5 seeds (worth 25 fruit) + 5 fruit = Profit 40 Fruit

BEST CASE:
Perk Level 0
20 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) + 0 fruit = Profit 20 Fruit
Perk Level 1
40 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) + 0 fruit = Profit 40 Fruit
Perk Level 2
40 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) + 10 fruit = Profit 50 Fruit
Perk Level 3
60 Fruit + 10 seeds (worth 50 fruit) + 10 fruit = Profit 70 Fruit


Perk level 1, On average, Will give you a profit while still being able to replant.  So on average with no points you won't profit off farming, but can still turn seeds into food.  With 1 point on average over time you profit, and that ratio increases until tier 3 guarantees every harvest is a profit.  
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Balthazod said:
My math is perfect, logic is bad where do you start with 50 fruit you have one or two seeds from loot if your lucky if seeds are plentiful its not a problem but they are not. 
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From where did I get all those seeds in my SP game with LotL1 then? 1 or 2 seeds? We live in different realities

Balthazod said:
Perk level 1 you can not make seeds so you have to be level 2 to even attempt a veg garden and with RNG the results can be very bad, say you looted 1 seed and only get 4 product from your harvest  you loose hence the tile LOTL gamble.  With lots of seeds and and time it works but its tedious and time consuming.
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This is exactly the same with vehicle schematics or cooking recipes. You either bet on looting to eventually deliver you those recipes or you play it safe and take more points in the perk to get the recipes automatically. This is a choice and I can assure you that looting works too. In both my SP and my MP game I have found all the important seed recipes and more than enough seeds to have a big farm going.

Did it take more time than if I had spent that perk point? Yes, sure, I didn't expect any different.

 
I've been doing 20 of ea of the main crops (corn, tater, shrooms)

50% would be 10 seeds.  that is about what I'm averaging, but last night got 13 tater seeds, so RNG liked me there.

Sometimes more , sometimes less, BUT even after upping to 20 seeds, I still show a net profit.

For SP this is fine.  For MP, it would still work, but just have to reinvest into seeds for a bit to grow the size.

Tossing 3 pts into that tree isn't much since I go heavy in that area anyway (heavy armor, MG/brawler) 

For those who don't go down that one, well, that's your choice.  I don't go deep into INT/Agi until later in the game.

So I use more resources/time for smelting crafting.  (but full mining means I have more resources. trade off)

I DO prefer the having to replant btw, since the old way, I'd punch out a few crops by accident. (wonky hit boxes for a few crops)

Would I like the full perk to be a bit better on seed return?  Of course!

It is workable though.

(go try getting a farm going in Valheim for oh, say turnips or onions, when you only find 3 miserable seeds.  How long until it's viable for crops?

(flax too, but that one ends.  BARLEY though....  heh.  You basically have to keep recreating the Great Plains)  😛

 
I have made comments on this general topic before,  but not on this specific one.  So,  Just from My perspective,  I have a base with a limited amount of available area for farming,  so for Me the "huge Farm Concept" wasn't going to be ideal.  I have enough Farm Plots to plant 34 seeds.  I place 6 each corn and potatoes, 5 for mushrooms(+1 open for when I can craft an extra mushroom 'spore'), 4 for pumpkin, 4 for blueberries,  3 yucca, and 4 aloe vera, and 1 plot that I tried to plant some super corn in, but added 1 normal corn this last harvest.  So after some really bad harvests while at LoTL2, I finally ranked up to LoTl3, and I am now still having a slight struggle to make enough food for 4 players;  My last harvest yielded enough that I could make a total of 5 meat stews and 2 steak and potatoes.  I'm still unsure how the corn crop varies so widely.  My last harvest I had to re-craft 5 new corn seeds;  but I still had a surplus at the end of 9 corn.  4 pumpkin plots yielded no seeds, so end result there after re-crafting new ones was a whopping 3 pumpkins,  small but still a surplus.  Blueberries however went wild.  I only had to re-craft 1 new seed so surplus was 11 blueberries.  I still find the new farming a bit of an aggravation.  But I am eating cooked foods using LoTL3   I'm looking for ways to expand the number of farm plots,  to "work the odds" a bit more in My favor.  I mentioned that I have 4 players,  but usually the 4th one only jumps in on weekends,  so other times there are only 1 or 2 playing, so less mouths to feed.   Last night We played 5 hours of Real Time, so I didn't have enough to feed everyone on cooked food,  but between farming and scavenging,  no one went hungry.

I think the largest aggravation is having to deal with the unpredictability at this point.   The extra time  to replant is only taking 2-3 minutes from play each time I harvest, so thats not a big issue to Me.   It is a big change from A19,  when I "knew" that each harvest I would be able to cook  X amount of meat stews,  and Y amount of Steak and Potatoes,  and Z number of pumpkin or blueberry pie.     It's simply a new feature I will have to get accustomed to,  like buying a new car that doesn't have rear window defoggers,  when your previous car had it as a 'standard feature'  *grin*

 
JCrook1028 said:
Well no kidding feeding 4 out of 34 plots may be an issue for space...
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34 plots of potatoes and 34 mushroom spores on a wall. steak and potaoes for days

but if you have less than 60 plots I think you should just rotate crops so you can make a particular set of food with each harvest.

If you try to grow a bit of everything it can easily fail. but if you cycle specific larger quantities of seeds and plan out your harvest it theoretically makes your chances of successful harvest much higher

 
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Balthazod said:
Perk level 1 you can not make seeds so you have to be level 2 to even attempt a veg garden and with RNG the results can be very bad
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The thing is, in my mod, I removed all the recipes from the perks so you have to either find them in loot or buy them from the traders; yet I am still able to setup farms with Alpha20.  It's all about patience.

Until I find the seed recipes, I just plant the seeds I find while looting.  Then once I get the recipe, I can convert my harvests into seeds to replant if I fall low on them.

 
It's only a 3 skill point investment to get level 2 in LotL which allows sustanaible farming. Zero and 1 point are just not meant to be used for sustainable farming, they designed it like that, adapt and move on. Level 1 is still good for the harvest so I would take it, just like I take several other 1 pointers with most builds I run.

 
Again statistics are all about over time, sure you can have a bad run, but over time you will profit, more so with investments, and will always profit when you max your skill.  

 
I propose max lvl LOTL enables cloning of a fully grown plant as a seedling. 

This ensures 1 new plant per harvested mature plant. Make it like A19, but only once max lvl for balance sake.

I clone plants all the time in IRL. 

 
Cobretti_ said:
It's only a 3 skill point investment to get level 2 in LotL which allows sustanaible farming. Zero and 1 point are just not meant to be used for sustainable farming, they designed it like that, adapt and move on. Level 1 is still good for the harvest so I would take it, just like I take several other 1 pointers with most builds I run.
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No. LotL1 is already sustainable farming. Recheck your calculation or read about it:

Just the numbers:

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/27146-living-of-the-land-its-a-poor-gamble/?do=findComment&comment=466814

The math:

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/27146-living-of-the-land-its-a-poor-gamble/?do=findComment&comment=466603

 
meganoth said:
No. LotL1 is already sustainable farming. Recheck your calculation or read about it:
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Correct.  LoTL 2 and 3 just speed up the process and reduce the costs for a bad harvest. - Clarification by costs I mean your ratio of harvests vs crops needed to convert seeds.  I should have said your excess increases, not costs decreases.

 
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fyi, I never use the plots for mushrooms. Those go on the wall somewhere.

(If I take over a POI for a bit, or, when using the old bunker, it's the bathroom. seems appropriate given the state of cleanliness)

😛

10x10 plots, using a checkerboard pattern.

currently have 2 of'em, more to follow after digging out the goodies below.

(base is 10x10, walls 30x30)

 
hiemfire said:
4 points. 2 points to get to Fort 3, 1 point each for LotL 1 and 2.
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3 points. Wear the glasses to get fort 3 to unlock LotL level 2 and wear them again whenever you need to harvest. Keep them in your farming storage, only time you will need them unless running a fort build.

As for the comments on sustainable farming, level 1 means you need to run a big farm, that is not sustainable in my book, if I want to spend my game time tending to a large farm I will play stardew valley. Just because something mathematically works doesn't mean it is sustainable.

 
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Cobretti_ said:
3 points. Wear the glasses to get fort 3 to unlock LotL level 2 and wear them again whenever you need to harvest. Keep them in your farming storage, only time you will need them unless running a fort build.

As for the comments on sustainable farming, level 1 means you need to run a big farm, that is not sustainable in my book, if I want to spend my game time tending to a large farm I will play stardew valley. Just because something mathematically works doesn't mean it is sustainable.
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Ah yes, another one that lives for rolling dice to be able to do anything, including breathing... 4 points for those of us that don't suck Fortuna's @%$# every chance they get in hopes that she'll bless them.

 
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