PC Leveling speed in 19.5

[outhous]

You should know better. We all come back every alpha, because there is new stuff to do. New stuff to see.
But that is exactly my point. We all play it once and come back after months for the new alpha.

Who is this "We" you speak of? I usually do 3 to 6 playthroughs per alpha, true I am off playing Valheim at the moment. To mix it up, I change which Skill Tree I focus on, I do a playthrough with friends, a no trader playthrough. There a a number of ways to enjoy this game multiple times. 

 

[Roland]

Who is this "We" you speak of? I usually do 3 to 6 playthroughs per alpha

"we" are all the normal regular video game players who only play through a game once and done and who obviously and overwhelmingly = practically everyone.

YOU are a hardcore 7 Days fan who plays it over and over and over and over and over again. And you and Roland plus maybe a dozen others are the only ones who do this.

This is so self-evident that there is no need for evidence.

 

[Roland]

And thx for pointing out that subnautica thing.
That is a REALLY good example of my point.
No choices. A lot of grind. Nothing new.
OBVIOUSLY nobody will play it again.

But, to my point, the big difference that I see between Subnautica and 7 Days to Die is that Subnautica is more of a story that you play through and once you reach the end you would just be playing through the same story. 7 Days to Die is more of a field upon which you compete against the progression curve of the game and every 7 days against a zombie onslaught. Like any field game there are a myriad of strategies you can employ and random factors will cause unforeseen events to take place that will necessitate adaptation. This competititon feels different every time much the same way as a new game of chess or soccer feels different every time-- even though the rules and the gameplay are the same every time.

Valheim is very much like 7 Days to Die in this regard. But Valheim has a big barrier to restarting that 7 Days does not: "Learn by Doing". It is extremely tough to want to start over in Valheim knowing you will need to grind back up all the skills by doing specific actions-- some of which you may not enjoy all that much (Thank goodness they changed it so you no longer have to click the mouse button for each and every chop...). It is a daunting idea to start out once again at zero skills knowing all the forced grinding that lies ahead of you. 7 Days to Die is easier to restart because you can play however you want and apply the xp points wherever you want. So you can spend your time doing preferred activities and still get your skills up in those areas you'd rather not grind.

I believe that there are more people who are rolling new worlds and replaying 7 Days from the beginning than you give credit AND I think it is happening a lot more often than at each forced update restart. If not so, I believe that the 7 Days graph would look like the Subnautica graph with high spikes like Subnautica's gold launch spike and then almost immediate return to minimal players playing mostly representative of new people purchasing the game and doing their one playthrough. But it isn't that way for 7 Days to Die-- Especially since A17 and the end of Learn By Doing which was a barrier to wanting to start fresh and have to re-grind all the skills by doing those particular actions. You can see the increased overall activity since A17 and also you can see that the drop after each update is much less significant. It seems unlikely that these recorded plays are overwhelmingly players just playing one playthrough and then leaving until the next update. It seems more likely that many are replaying multiple runs. In fact, a very common question that we see on the forums when a new update is believed to be close is: "Do you think I have time to start over and do another run before the next update comes out?"

 

[theFlu]

Valheim is very much like 7 Days to Die in this regard. But Valheim has a big barrier to restarting that 7 Days does not: "Learn by Doing".

I've played a few rounds of Valheim, so I'm not exactly an expert in it, but I don't think the main barrier in it is the LBD. To be honest, it is one of the rare games where the skill system doesn't seem to encourage me to level up anything.. I just don't care of the values, they don't seem to provide tangible benefits - not over damage types and the general progression. I do try not to die, but if I do, the skill point loss doesn't even factor in emotionally.

The biggest issue for me with a new play of Valheim is its entirely linear progression. Even the entire second round felt like "All right, next I'll have to grind 200 of <this thing> to progress." There's no reason or purpose to do anything differently, base design is mainly just aesthetics due to the combat being what it is, and so on..

Don't get me wrong, Valheim is a nice game, but the replay issues are in its utter linearity.

 

[Roland]

Don't get me wrong, Valheim is a nice game, but the replay issues are in its utter linearity.

I suppose replay issues for any game lie in those areas that a particular player dislikes re-experiencing. For you going through the same lineup of bosses and biomes and knowing what you will have to grind to do each is blech and for me it is grinding up the same LBD skills. 

 

[outhous]

And you and Roland plus maybe a dozen others are the only ones who do this.

Has taken to referring to himself in 3rd person...  love it!

 

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

"My wife and I nailed down two 4x4's and a gyro without ever speccing into it. Between quests and trader buys and grinding, we've never been out of enough money to swing what we needed. "

It seems like there are two paths in this game that are in flux:  leveling up to get things, versus questing and raiding to get things based on random chance.

I guess that some of us prefer the former, and some of us prefer the later.  

It can be, I suppose, but that may be due to our experience with the game as well. We've already done some more "rugged" type of playthroughs and when we want to change it up we do. We're just really efficient when dealing with traders and increasing our gamestage. Once you get your first motorcycle or even minibike the game jumps from a crawl to a run for progress. It also makes it more fun in my opinion, as walking with a bag full of stuff (certified packrat™) and making little boxes everywhere drags it out for how we typically play. That extra storage goes a long way. 

I also personally feel like the attribute for getting vehicles/stations isn't the most rewarding so I avoid it like the plague. I don't use stun batons much and once I find a gun or compound bow (usually a combo) I stick to it and Intelligence doesn't bolster that or my armour choices, so. Meh, I'll buy it. 

 

[Boidster]

The only cheese I've done so far has been logging out and back in on horde nights to get a fight that goes to dawn, that should really be an option in the menus.

If you use mods, this one might interest you.

 

[Whorhay]

I feel like Learn By Doing is only an issue when it is something that offers a big enough advantage that it becomes a good trade off to do that grind, but the grind doesn't have any benefit other than increasing that skill. In Valheim there didn't seem to be any noticeable benefit in leveling up skills so I've never bothered trying to grind up skills. In 7DTD grinding out skills that increased the quality of tools and weapons was clearly worth it to some degree and so people felt like they had to do the grind, but they didn't enjoy it and there wasn't anything to be gained by doing that work other than the skill increases. Personally I enjoyed the grind to a point because I turned it into a minigame to be played at night to pass the hours of enforced inactivity in the early game.

 

[ungkor]

I've also noticed that leveling while mining seems way slower. 

A night of mining with an auger, using 10's of thousands of gas, used to let you level up a point or two.  This was during Alpha 17.  During Alpha 19, it seems to barely move the needle. 

 

[meganoth]

I've also noticed that leveling while mining seems way slower. 

A night of mining with an auger, using 10's of thousands of gas, used to let you level up a point or two.  This was during Alpha 17.  During Alpha 19, it seems to barely move the needle. 

Doesn't tell me much as you are leveling slower the higher your level is. But at a time when people have augers I think two levels per night would be way too fast leveling. In fact dooing 2 levels per complete day should normally happen in the first few days only

 

[ungkor]

Doesn't tell me much as you are leveling slower the higher your level is. But at a time when people have augers I think two levels per night would be way too fast leveling. In fact dooing 2 levels per complete day should normally happen in the first few days only

I guess it depends on what sort of game people think 7d2d is.   I've played everquest in the past for 10 years.   Spending an entire week, or month, to level 1 point, was the norm. 

72d2 right now, doesn't have "end game content".   It has limited content, and limited challenges, that are highly customizable. 

Is this a grinding game, where you need to mine and dig and loot ammo non-stop for 6 days, so you can barely survive the 7th day?

What is the purpose of repeating this pattern? 

I guess in my mind, 7d2d seems like something you'd play for a few weeks, 'master' that world, and then start a new game sometime later.  In that scenario, I'd expect to make more progress each night.   In a few weeks, I'd like to have basically "everything". 

Why would I spend 3-4 months playing a game with zero end game content?   This is, or isn't, a game like a mmo.  

People that are comfortable with the current pace, I'd love to hear from you what enjoyment you get out of the game after playing a world for 6 months.  OK, you've got all the gear, OK, you've got all the weapons, then what? Does it feel fun just fighting off the zombies week after week?

This game either needs to focus more on casual replay worlds, or needs to focus on progression and end game goals.  

 

[meganoth]

I guess it depends on what sort of game people think 7d2d is.   I've played everquest in the past for 10 years.   Spending an entire week, or month, to level 1 point, was the norm. 

72d2 right now, doesn't have "end game content".   It has limited content, and limited challenges, that are highly customizable. 

Is this a grinding game, where you need to mine and dig and loot ammo non-stop for 6 days, so you can barely survive the 7th day?

What is the purpose of repeating this pattern? 

I guess in my mind, 7d2d seems like something you'd play for a few weeks, 'master' that world, and then start a new game sometime later.  In that scenario, I'd expect to make more progress each night.   In a few weeks, I'd like to have basically "everything". 

Why would I spend 3-4 months playing a game with zero end game content?   This is, or isn't, a game like a mmo.  

People that are comfortable with the current pace, I'd love to hear from you what enjoyment you get out of the game after playing a world for 6 months.  OK, you've got all the gear, OK, you've got all the weapons, then what? Does it feel fun just fighting off the zombies week after week?

This game either needs to focus more on casual replay worlds, or needs to focus on progression and end game goals.  

Again doesn't tell me much when you say 3-4 months. If you play once a week for a few hours 3-4 months are not much. If you play daily it is. If you mean ingame months it also is a lot.

I play about 40-50 real hours in a single-player scenario until I reached everything I wanted. In multiplayer it is similar even though we progress faster. But we also build bigger and that keeps us usually a bit longer in a MP game.

This game isn't finished, there is still an endgoal ahead, bandits (and a simple story line) will appear in a year or so with alpha 21. Until then this is like a sandbox where you pick your own goal, for example to build a big castle or simply get the best equipment.

If you personally don't have fun with the xp gain then increase it, there is an option for that. I don't have the impression that alpha17 was so much faster than 19, but it was a long time ago that I last played it.